CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Genetics & Breeding => Topic started by: Ben's mum on June 22, 2016, 08:24:02 PM
-
Please can I just ask a question, I am aware of the discussions on here and have read the different views about a high COI so don't want to start another thread on that. I am starting to understand what it means, however just want to know how do you find out your dogs COI, and for example where would you look if you were puppy hunting to find out about a particular litter.
I have googled it but can't seem to find simple answers or understand where to look.
Thank you :D
-
lets start from scratch please with what are they
-
Set up an account on MyKC (easy to do), then choose 'find a dog'. Choose cocker spaniel. Then type in kennel name of the dog you know. You can then find a 'hypothetical mating' and coi by typing in the other parent's name. Probably sounds complicated, but once you've set up an account and gone in it will all be quite simple. Good luck! You can also check the parents' health test results.
-
I hadn't heard of it until the other day either, I'm pretty sure that it's fairly recent. I was off COL for about 18 months and have had Ebony 6 years and hadn't heard it discussed on here before.
I had a look at Ebony's health records on The Kennel Club and it's been added to her record of health checks. I just put in her registered full name. But I've just looked again and this time had to search "COI" and put in her parents names. Her's is 6.3%. Rosie's isn't recorded, she was born 2003.
-
just goggled it and now I understand.
Its what goes on in a local town to us resulting in 6 fingered people :005: Sorry could not resist
-
I just Googled it too as I've only recently seen it mentioned in posts on here. Interesting.
-
just goggled it and now I understand.
Its what goes on in a local town to us resulting in 6 fingered people :005: Sorry could not resist
What are you like! :lol2: And I thought I could get into bother on here. (Yup- otherwise known by my doctor friend as Normal For Norfolk.)
-
COI does seem to be a hot topic! :D
There will always be different views on this subject, but I do feel it is another important factor for anyone looking for a puppy to research and understand COI. This will enable them at least to make an informed choice, while weighing up what is important to them.
I don't really see why you wouldn't be able to find a puppy that has the whole package.
-
just goggled it and now I understand.
Its what goes on in a local town to us resulting in 6 fingered people :005: Sorry could not resist
:005:
-
Have to admit, I'd not heard about it before I got my Odie and Archie. It didn't seem to be one of the things to look out for or be aware of when searching for a pup. With hindsight, not sure if their higher COI's had any bearing on their problems (Odie 11.9%, Archie 16.8%). Monty's is 3.2% and I checked the COI out before I got him. It wasn't the deciding factor however, although I was pleased it was fairly low, his upbringing, family life, health checks and mother's temperament were more important.
-
I guess one danger could be that the less reputable breeders may jump on the COI bandwagon (presuming of course they have any idea what it is - I certainly didn't until reading the forum posts -) and use a lower percentage number as a selling point, disregarding other health and welfare factors, eyes, kidneys, temperament etc.
-
I agree, which is why it should only be part of a puppy buyer's extensive research. :D
-
Of course it's part of it- but a massive part. And I think most people who go to the trouble of getting their heads around CoI aren't go to be the sort who then ignore PRA, say. Because the point is the current health checks can just give a tiny amount of genetic data- not even the tip of the iceberg, more like a sliver of the tip broken off the top- whereas CoI tells you about the state and prospects for everything else. Not in detail; just the best odds.
Ignore it when buying a puppy and it's like setting out to drive to Lands End in an unreliable car - but ONLY making sure you've topped up the wipers. And if anyone said to you 'Someone I know did this and still made it,' that's fine. Maybe you're feeling lucky. But at least make your choice in knowledge not ignorance.
-
I guess one danger could be that the less reputable breeders may jump on the COI bandwagon (presuming of course they have any idea what it is - I certainly didn't until reading the forum posts -) and use a lower percentage number as a selling point, disregarding other health and welfare factors, eyes, kidneys, temperament etc.
Yes, as many have on the health testing... They realize very quickly that adding a couple of health tests allows them to add a couple of hundred pounds onto the price/puppy. And producing puppies with low coi is even easier as you just need 2 randomly bred dogs with few relations (common with b/y breeding) as the lines are usually not very well known, or add a worker to show - so less chance of common ancestors.
I agree, which is why it should only be part of a puppy buyer's extensive research. :D
Exactly. Well said. There is soooo much more than just checking for coi and health testing.
-
Set up an account on MyKC (easy to do), then choose 'find a dog'. Choose cocker spaniel. Then type in kennel name of the dog you know. You can then find a 'hypothetical mating' and coi by typing in the other parent's name. Probably sounds complicated, but once you've set up an account and gone in it will all be quite simple. Good luck! You can also check the parents' health test results.
thank you that answers my query perfectly - I will have a look :D
-
I guess one danger could be that the less reputable breeders may jump on the COI bandwagon (presuming of course they have any idea what it is - I certainly didn't until reading the forum posts -) and use a lower percentage number as a selling point, disregarding other health and welfare factors, eyes, kidneys, temperament etc.
Except the hideous recessive genes that double up to give kidney, eye, neurological and immune-mediated diseases, behavioural difficulties, liver shunt, hyperthyroidism, epilepsy and...to be honest I lose the heart to go on. They are all listed as genetic problems in cockers by scientists and vets (rather than breeder- wonder if maybe they have more knowledge?) and are the result of consistently high CoI!
And I just don't understand a point of view that cares more about coat density than all of this.
-
I guess one danger could be that the less reputable breeders may jump on the COI bandwagon (presuming of course they have any idea what it is - I certainly didn't until reading the forum posts -) and use a lower percentage number as a selling point, disregarding other health and welfare factors, eyes, kidneys, temperament etc.
Except the hideous recessive genes that double up to give kidney, eye, neurological and immune-mediated diseases, behavioural difficulties, liver shunt, hyperthyroidism, epilepsy and...to be honest I lose the heart to go on. They are all listed as genetic problems in cockers by scientists and vets (rather than breeder- wonder if maybe they have more knowledge?) and are the result of consistently high CoI!
And I just don't understand a point of view that cares more about coat density than all of this.
Daw, with due respect you appear to be on a crusade against anyone breeding any dog with a coi of more than 0... You cannot categorically prove that every single ill (health, temperament and whatever else you choose to add to the list) is linked to high (or average coi). Yes, there may be some links to some conditions. yes there are hereditarily passed on conditions. No they are not all due to high coi. Have you actually sat down and thought about any further contributing factors? any other variables perhaps? like training and handling, lifestyle/exercise/feeding regimes, environmental factors? No? didn't think so. And stating to all and sundry that coi is the most important thing to consider when choosing a puppy is just irresponsible (and dangerous). Puppy farmers and b/y breeders are no good thing regardless of the low coi, fn/pra free puppies they produce.
-
Ben`s mum has asked that, since she has got the information she wanted, and she didn't want a heated argument to ensue, this thread should be closed now ;)