CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Oldies (Over 9s) => Topic started by: mymils on February 01, 2017, 08:00:49 PM
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Hello our lovely cocker spaniel is nearly 13 and is very poorly. She ihas a little bit of appetite but either is sick after or has diarrhoea. She shivers sometimes so I think she is in some discomfort. Going to vets again tomorrow but wondered if anyone has any suggestions for pain relief? I've just been feeding her on chicken and rice and also giving her replacement fluids to help with dehydration. Last time she had blood tests they showed kidney and liver functions not good. She is losing weight. I know this sounds like the inevitable but just want to make sure I'm doing all that's possible. PS. She had a little walk tonight :) Thank you for any suggestions.
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Afraid I don't have any suggestions for you but there are lots of people on here who have tonnes of experience and will be able to help. Sending lots of hugs and kisses for you and her, and keeping all our fingers and toes crossed for the vet visit tomorrow
Love Mandy and Effie xxx
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Same here, - I do feel for you, its painful to see them start to age. I know there are others on here with more experience, so hopefully someone will be able to help you. All the best for your girl, I do hope the vet can help her. Do keep us posted!
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Am sending my support and thinking of you and your girl.
Julie
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Sorry to hear this mymils. Our old girl Betty was in sthe same situation as yours.
First thing Sarka said when I read your description to her was to feed her chicken soup (zero salt in it of course)
We have some recipes that worked well. Well look them out and post to you in the morning.
Our Vet prescribed a special Purina VD canine Renal Failure granules , but Betty would not eat them.
We managed to keep her going for 18 months using chicken soup for emergencies followed by the afore mentioned recipes. When in remission we found that a German Rinti brand low potash special renal recovery tinned food worked well.
Right now, its most important to find some thing that shell find appetizing and get her energy levels up. Just make sure its not too high protein or high phosphorous of course.
Get her through this and then feed her up when she's feeling better. A little bit of extra weight wil help her deal with future challenges.
Once the anemia was controlled we also gave Betty Ipakitine plv which pulls phosphorus from the system. Our vet told us that looking at her blood stats that this stuff appeared to have been doing a good job and certainly prolonged her life.
Hoping your girl gets stronger quickly.
Our thoughts are with you both.
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Thank you all very much for your support.
I would be grateful for your recipes
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Mymils, We're on it. Sarka has to dig them out and is searching as I write.
I'll update shortly
A further comment: Once you have her stabilised and have found a diet that she can handle, stick with it and don't be tempted to change it. We went through a few iterations of trying to perfect /make easier her diet and learned the hard way that good is good enough.
Later
J
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hope all goes ok at the vet, I really feel for you my old boy is struggling at the moment and its so hard knowing what to do for the best isn't it
:bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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If only dogs could stay young forever. Really hope it is reassuring news at the vets.
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All fingers and paws crossed that Vets visit has gone well? What's the news?
Below are the recipes we promised.
But before them hopefully some cause for optimism:
Here’s a pic of my ladies taken a year ago. By this time Betty the Cocker had been living on the diets below for almost two years. Outdoor temperature when pic taken was -16C. Betty lived another 8 months, and in the end her crossing of the bridge aged 16 1/2 was not from failed kidneys.
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/captain-cook1/Betty%20playing%20snowballs%20Jan%202016_zpsblncwt7z.jpg) (http://s41.photobucket.com/user/captain-cook1/media/Betty%20playing%20snowballs%20Jan%202016_zpsblncwt7z.jpg.html)
So onto the serious stuff……
Cocker food recipes for poor kidney function dogs
Emergency Low protein diet:
Chicken soup plus piskot* ( a kind of child's rusk that is sold over here) used to stabilize dog and give energy
Once stabilized:
1. Egg diet for 10kg dog
160g white of hard boiled egg
250g boiled potato
10g UNSALTED butter
70g carrot (blanched)
1 Tablet vitamin B complex
5g calcium carbonate
Break down into rough paste, as preferred by dog, but fine enough that dog cannot sort components and is forced to eat the whole balanced diet.
2. Meat diet
100g beef or chicken
30g white of hard boiled egg
10g UNSALTED butter
70g carrot ( blanched)
1 Tablet vitamin B complex
5g calcium carbonate
Hope this helps. Poor Sarka is feeling very sympathetically sad for you both at this time.
Good luck old girl
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Dear Sumava Cockers thank you so much for your recipes I am going to try them for my lovely old girl and for the beautiful picture of your Betty.
Going to the vets later this afternoon and will definitely update you all asap.
She has been more peaceful overnight and this morning.
Thank you everyone you are all very kind!
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Some more background information, from the source of the recipes we used:
(Translated in haset from Czech so please excuse any strange expressions. Hopefully it will be of food for thought though)....
Dogs with chronic renal failure
Kidney failure is a condition of renal insufficiency – meaning only 5% kidney function (or less). At this stage, unfortunately, we are unable to determine the cause of irreversible tissue damage kidney damage. We cannot cure the disease, unfortunately, nor are there available hemodialysis or kidney transplantations as in human medicine. We tried to thus improving the function of the remaining kidney tissue and the slowing of disease progression.
How do kidneys affect the body?
The kidneys filter blood insufficiently so poorly excreted toxic products of metabolism, they organism is flooded and it induces clinical signs such as loss of appetite, lethargy, vomiting and diarrhea (uremic gastroenteritis). Kidneys of course not only excretory function - also forms the hormone erythropoietin, which is responsible for the formation of new red blood cells. Due to its scarcity anemia (anemia)ensues. Clinical symptoms of anemia is also the apathy, loss of appetite, intolerance to cold.
Measures for animals with chronic renal failure:
In the first place there are dietary measures. Special diet for animals with renal failure is based on a reduced protein content (proteins contain phosphorus, which contributes to the further deterioration of the kidneys); Protein in the diet, however, should be of the highest quality. These diets are manufactured by leading companies in the form of granules, cans or pouches. The advantage of these diets is accurately dispensed ratio of nutrients, minerals and vitamins according to the weight of the animal. Sometimes, however, the animal refuses to eat these, so he must be in accordance with special recipes to prepare homemade food. Feeding is better served in small doses and better heated to a suitable temperature (to be avoided hot!).
Commercial diets for patients with renal failure:
Waltham Royal Canine Renal
Hill's K / D
specific Renil
Purina NF
These diets are only available from vets.
- All these diets are available as granules, as well as in cans.
For patients with chronic renal failure a diet with less protein and low phosphorus content. The need for proteins in dogs with CRF higher than in healthy individuals (about 2.0 g / kg bodyweight / day, in healthy subjects, it is 1.25 g / kg bw / day). You need to start a diet at 2.0 to 2.5 g / kg bw, if symptoms of malnutrition are evident, increase the dose up to 3.5 g / kg bw
Foods suitable to low protein diets are shown in Table 1.
Said protein restriction concerns egg proteins. All other proteins are biologically less valuable !!
If the source of proteins other than eggs, then you need to put an upper limit restriction protejnů, in proportion to the value of biological resources. Most beef or chicken contains 20% protein, so the requirement 2 g protein / kg bw It is equivalent to 10 g meat / kg bw / day, with a correction due ki biological value (for meat is a biological value of 22% lower than in eggs), 12.2 grams of meat / kg bw / day. Whole egg contains about 13% protein, so the need asi1,5x is higher than that of meat, i.e. 15 g / kg bodyweight / day. If necessary to reduce hyperphosphatemia, it is preferable to eliminate from the diet yolk because it contains 20 times more phosphorus than white; when administered only albumen, its mass needed twice (20 g white / kg / day).
Meat is suitable for feeding every fifth day and inbetween, more eggs (See Table 2).
Suitable low-protein diet should also contain enough energy. The daily maintenance dose ranges from 65 to 110 kcal / kg, the actual requirements, however, are variable. The owner should therefore monitor your dog and sources of energy should be adjusted according to body weight gain or losses. Basic energy food can be cooked potatoes flavored eg. Adding butter or vegetable fat. But you can also select rice and pasta, at the time of uremic anorexia and cakes and sweets. When the threat of excess energy, it is possible to limit its sources in the diet and increase the proportion of carrot.
Because of hyperphosphatemia (high blood phosphate levels) Ipakitine should be added, which balances the amount of phosphorus absorbed in the intestines.
Furthermore your pet should receive vitamins - particularly B and C, is ideal purchase special multivitamins (containing no phosphorus) for dogs / cats and dosed according to the manufacturer's instructions.
Anemia in these cases can be solved by administering the hormone erythropoietin, initially administered injections 3 times a week, gradually reducing the dose and intervals extended. When administering erythropoietin it is appropriate to subsidize the body with iron. In animals, it is the best form of administering medicine Aktiferrin drops (OTC pharmacy).
A novelty therapy, omega-3 unsaturated fat, unfortunately an acid. But studies have shown that it protects the functional kidney tissue from further damage. These oils may be purchased as a dietary supplement in pharmacies in the form of capsules
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Good to hear that your girl's more comfortable. We have ben staggered at just how tough and resilient our Cockers have been. They seem to be able to bounce back from dire conditions in an amazing way.
Good luck at vet this afternoon.
Sarka is working ( at the Vets) as I write, but after around 5pm today she'll be home. If your vet clears you to try these diets and you would like to chat with her about how to prepare them etc. PM us on COL and we'll share Skype or local UK Telephone number that you can reach us on.
ATB
Jon
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I am home again at last and back with Millie ( our lovely old girl) she's had a good examination at the vets and has had
3 injections I.e anti sickness, vitamin B12 and ranitidine injection. Her temperature is OK . Vet said one kidney not good but the other one isn't too bad so that's very good news. I've got lots of rehydration support to give her via a syringe and will take Millie for another check up in a couple of days..I think she has improved slightly today although her appetite isn't back to normal yet.
I feel much happier tonight and can't thank you all enough for your encouragement, support and good wishes.
Millie is sleeping peacefully now.
I know we are not out of the woods yet but with the help of Sumava cocker's lovely recipes and advice I feel much more positive.
I've sent for some ipakitine today plus vit b and calcium for Millie thank you so much!!!
What a brilliant forum this is .... full of wonderful people and irresistible dogs xxxxxxxxxx
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GREAT NEWS we are so relieved.
Congratulations Millie:-)
Hope she continues to improve.
ATB
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Very pleased to read that Millie is a little brighter this evening. The Siamese cat I had, was diagnosed with polycystic kidneys at 13 months old and was on Fortekor for the following five years. Sadly she died young but that was due to a tumour not the kidney issue.
I'm not quite sure how Fortekor works but it certainly helped Chester - she had 20% usuable kidney function.
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Can't offer anything better than the advice you have had, just wish to say that I know how you feel, it is hard to see them getting older. Cuddles for Millie, and I hope the next few days put a spring back in her step. :bigarmhug:
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:bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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My heart is with you . Thirteen is a fantastic age, and the information from Sumava Cockers is brilliant.
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:bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: for you and Millie, good to hear, that she is feeling a little brighter, everything crossed, that she continues to improve :luv:
Stephanie, George and Hamish xxx
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Sending all my support to you and glad to hear Millie is brighter
:bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: to you both
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How's Milly doing Mymils?
Hope she's feeling stronger now?
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There is a recipe for bone broth which many use when their dogs are off their food. Good for nutrients.
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/how-to-make-bone-broth-for-your-dog/
Sending you both :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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Millie is still improving! Thank you for all your good wishes and support.
Thanks to you Sumava Cockers your recipe for homemade soup is going down a treat with
Millie. I'm still using ipakitine and vit b tablets. Also using rehydration powders still.
She's been really hungry today! :) I've made her homemade liver biscuits ( hope this is OK for her?)
She loves them.
She hasn't been sick again but still has slight runny poos (sorry for the info!)
I'm just taking each day as it comes as she seems very frail still but seems
Really peaceful too. She's such a lovely girl.
Thank you patp for the bone broth recipe. Your very kind.
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Forgot to say the vet said if she doesn't improve we might need to think about calling it day .
I think our girl must have heard him and is fighting back .... Hooray! ;)
Must be the soup!
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Great to hear that she's getting her appetite back.
From what you wrote earlier it sounds like Millie still has around 50% kidney function. Betty survived her time since diagnosis with between 20% and 30% function. So there's cause for hope.
Don't know about protein level in liver biscuits, but in all likelihood Millie's instinct will drive her to having an appetite for the foods that are best for her. Let her eat what she wants and if like betty she starts becoming fat, that's not a problem as she'll need energy reserves to get through future challenges.
All the best to you both.
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Thanks for your advice :) really have appreciated it. Hope we have Millie as long as you did with your Betty.
Millie doing well again today.
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Good to hear Millie is doing better. x
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Hello everyone just an update regarding our lovely Millie and a query please. I took all your advice about the right diet for her. However in the end I have been feeding her on white fillet of cod or pollock as it seems to really agree with her.. She literally just has this with some pro-coalin paste nd ipackitine. She has approx 4 or 5 small fillets every day. She is still very tired and listless but she still has a short walk every day but sleeps most of the time. However, she seems really peaceful, isn't shivering anymore and actually sleeps through the night (this has been unheard of for the last few years). She enjoys eating the fish and I have noticed her eyes look a little brighter and her skin isn't as itchy either.
She is by no means back to how she used to be but its like a mini miracle that she still with us and so peaceful.
My query is am I being cruel just giving her white fish (cooked in the oven with a touch of butter and water)? Her poo is a bit firmer now and she hasn't been sick for a while but I don't know if this diet is good enough as someone as suggested Millie should have a varied meat based diet. Sorry to write so much but just want the best for her while she's still with us.
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Personally, I don't think so. Millie is getting what her system can cope with. You obviously see an improvement in how she is, and from the sound of it a few issues have been resolved. Little and often meals are a good way to go, and I really admire your dedication to this little one.
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Thank you so much for your kind words.
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lovely to have an update about Millie, so glad she is a little better in herself :luv:
I think you are absolutely right to feed her whatever agrees with her and whatever she enjoys eating at this age, being in a similar position with Ben we worry less now about what is considered 'right' and just do what is needed to keep him happy at this stage of his life.
Thinking of you, its difficult seeing them like this isn't it :bigarmhug:
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lovely to have an update about Millie, so glad she is a little better in herself :luv:
I think you are absolutely right to feed her whatever agrees with her and whatever she enjoys eating at this age, being in a similar position with Ben we worry less now about what is considered 'right' and just do what is needed to keep him happy at this stage of his life.
Thinking of you, its difficult seeing them like this isn't it :bigarmhug:
^this...if she's enjoying the fish and seems comfortable
I'd just go with it.
Sending you and Millie :luv: lots of love xxx
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It does seem that having fish has settled her tummy so will keep offering it to her. She's had another sleepy day. Thank you for being there xxx
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Glad to hear you've found something that agrees with her. Well done.
and well done Millie, keep it up old girl!
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I feel 100% that you are doing the right thing for her, it is about her quality of life, she is eating this fish and enjoys it, that is the most important thing - plus she is brighter.
You love her and with that comes the judgement to do the best for her.
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Sending you and Millie heaps of love and strength to help you through this difficult time. You are such a wonderful mum to her, she is so lucky to have you by her side when she needs it the most. X
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Just to say thank you everyone. Will let you know any changes with our Millie.xxxxx
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Mymils,
We hope that dear Millie is doing well with her new fish diet...... I would never have thought of trying that. I guess you have to remove skin and rinse thoroughly in fresh water to reduce the salt content?
I was in our loft last night and found a full case of the tinned German made renal recipe food that our Betty found so agreeable.
We have a pretty definite road trip back to UK planned for June, with the full-of-beans Barnaby riding shotgun this time. Route will be through the tunnel from France, then M2 to London ( M25) over the millennium bridge then homeward up the A12 to the North Essex coast.
We have no idea where you live, and although a long-shot, if you think it worth trying on Mills, and if you are anywhere near our route, or home, we'll bring the case with us. ( its all dry stored and in perfect condition BTW).
Please PM us to advise.
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Thank you for your very kind offer for our Millie :) but we feel that she is getting weaker every day and probably we should be thinking of saying goodbye to her but she hasn't gone off her fish yet :) and wagged her tail today when we saw a friend. She's lost loads of weight but still manages to go to the toilet in the garden. She can't walk far but we took her out in the car today and I carried her "for a walk" I just don't want to say goodbye before I have too.
We live in the north of England so rather too far to travel but lovely thought.
PS. Yes we have been buying frozen cod or Pollock fillets with no skin or bones and we rinse well before cooking. Seems a gentle diet up to now although Millie often has diarrhea now.
I think we have decided that when Millie no longer eats and can't manage the garden for her toilet then we'll ask the vet to come. Sorry for long reply but it's very hard knowing what is the right thing to do for her xxx
PPS. We actually had some sun today and so put Millie's bed outside. She slept in the sunshine for a couple of hours, woke up and ate her tea !
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A little bit of sunshine makes us all feel better. Thanks for the update.
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Sorry to read this glad hes enjoying her fish and little walks Thinking of you
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Yes, Make every day special. Knowing days were running out, we drove seventy miles from Sheffield to the Yorkshire coast. He ran and splashed about, wagging his tail merrily with the old sparkle in his eye, then slept all the way home. Better to be stimulated , happy and ill,than bored and ill. I wish I could do the same with my father in law , but sick people have to suffer far longer than we would allow for our pets .
Hugs to all xx,
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Thanks for the update. Very sad to hear that she's still declining. More stressful for you than for the stoic Millie we guess.
So difficult to decide what's best in these situations. We can only follow our hearts.
Our thoughts and prayers are with you.
J&S
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just wanted to say am thinking of you, sad times but hope she still has a little time with some sunny days. :luv:
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Thinking of you and Millie, glad to hear she is enjoying the sunshine and her fish :luv: :luv:
Stephanie, George and Hamish xxx
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My thoughts are with you and Millie. Its a dreadful time for you. So glad to hear Millie enjoyed the sunshine yesterday. Just follow your heart and make every day special.
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Hope that dear Millie has been able to be out in the sun today.Lots of thoughts and prayers for you both.
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Hello everyone I have been meaning to give you all an update and thank you all again for your kind thoughts and prayers but we have been (and still are) on a rollercoaster with our lovely Millie. Just to say she's still with us ! We have been having little trips out and we are enjoying the extra time we have with her. She even barked for extra fishy food today ! First time in nearly 3 months. We don't get much sleep with her during the night because she needs to be let out at least a couple of times for the toilet but that doesn't matter to us.
Bye for now, and thank you for your advice and wisdom. It means so much xxxxx
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Thanks for the update.
Bless her that she's such a good girl to be able to tell you she needs to go out at night.
Indeed it is a roller coaster. These lovely dogs of ours seem to have an amazing ability to come back from the edge and act like nothing had happened.
Our thoughts are with you.
Jon and the Sumava gang
( Screen name here changed last week)
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Mymils - thank you for the update. I think of Millie often, as I too give Ollie fish - I also try and add some thing fresh to his feeds - so it is usually fish or chicken, must admit the fish is his favourite.
Millie seems to be a wonderful and remarkable girl, loving her fishy dinners and letting you know when she needs to go out.
It is truly a blessing that you are all enjoying her time with you and making lovely memories each day.
Thinking of you