CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => General Cocker Spaniel Discussion => Topic started by: Groover on October 02, 2017, 12:33:41 PM
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We adopted an ex-breeding female from Many Tears a few days ago. What we got was a scared little dog that refused to come out of her crate, but is already blossoming into a family pet with many of the behaviors we saw in our previous Cocker. I thought I would keep a little diary of her progress as a record. I don't know how often I will update it, probably daily at first as the progress is more rapid.
We have two other dogs both male, middle-aged and mutts.
Day 1
When we picked her up it was a 5.5 hour drive back. At every stop she refused to come out of her crate in the back of the car and didn't want to be touched, so we left her in there. We carried the crate into the house and then opened the door. She quickly left and started exploring in a state of high nervous energy, but cautious at the same time. Initial observations:
- refuses to eat
- refuses to go outside, if carried outside immediately wants to come back inside
- won't come
- doesn't like to be touched or any raised hand above her
- doesn't like the leash
- doesn't know what stairs are
- doesn't like to be picked up. Goes into a "rag doll" state when put back down - just collapses on the floor
- doesn't know what doors or glass are
- doesn't understand pointing - this one surprised me as I thought pointing was understood by dogs automatically from birth thanks to the long evolution of dogs alongside humans
- no interest in dog toys
- can't understand the upstairs of the house - doesn't understand where everyone has gone or where the voices are coming from
For the first night we put her in a crate in the bedroom. No problems there.
Day 2
We have to carry her everywhere as she has decided her safe spot is between the coffee table and sofa.
Anything happens and she is straight there. Ignores the nearby crate with open door. She is following our other two dogs around everywhere. She ate a very small amount but nothing near what she should be eating.
Went potty a couple of times in the house and a couple of times in the garden.
Tried to steal the TV remote, a shoe, some paper - good start on her career of thievery!
Walks into the glass of the conservatory trying to get into the house. When I open the door for her she tried to walk through the hinge side, hitting the glass...
We can cautiously stroke her.
We put her in the crate at bedtime and she turned into this shrieking monster, she pulled the sheet off the top of the crate, banged on the door, dumped the water bowl. We tried to calm her down but her will was stronger than ours so we put a dog bed on the floor next to our bed. She then went potty (both kinds) in the bedroom and stood in it, then left poo prints all over the room. Note - she had just been outside for a while with the other dogs but didn't do anything of course. While we were cleaning up the mess she proceeded to steal anything not nailed down in the bedroom and take it to the dog bed.
Day 3
Now she look at us when we call her name, but won't come. Now eating normally. She will go up a short flight of stairs but not down them. No mess in the house today. Shows an interest in a tennis ball and a dog toy. When we open doors she walks through them with the other dogs and we were able to call her to come outside.
She figured out how to jump on the sofa, so now she is always on there.
Stealing shoes. Now carrying things around in her mouth.
We can easily stroke her, but she is still nervous. When we go to pick her up she runs away from us.
At bedtime she was desperate to get on the bed where the other dogs are. She finds a way to scramble up and she sleeps on our bed for the first time.
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We adopted an ex-breeding female from Many Tears a few days ago. What we got was a scared little dog that refused to come out of her crate, but is already blossoming into a family pet with many of the behaviors we saw in our previous Cocker. I thought I would keep a little diary of her progress as a record. I don't know how often I will update it, probably daily at first as the progress is more rapid.
We have two other dogs both male, middle-aged and mutts.
Day 1
When we picked her up it was a 5.5 hour drive back. At every stop she refused to come out of her crate in the back of the car and didn't want to be touched, so we left her in there. We carried the crate into the house and then opened the door. She quickly left and started exploring in a state of high nervous energy, but cautious at the same time. Initial observations:
- refuses to eat
- refuses to go outside, if carried outside immediately wants to come back inside
- won't come
- doesn't like to be touched or any raised hand above her
- doesn't like the leash
- doesn't know what stairs are
- doesn't like to be picked up. Goes into a "rag doll" state when put back down - just collapses on the floor
- doesn't know what doors or glass are
- doesn't understand pointing - this one surprised me as I thought pointing was understood by dogs automatically from birth thanks to the long evolution of dogs alongside humans
- no interest in dog toys
- can't understand the upstairs of the house - doesn't understand where everyone has gone or where the voices are coming from
For the first night we put her in a crate in the bedroom. No problems there.
Day 2
We have to carry her everywhere as she has decided her safe spot is between the coffee table and sofa.
Anything happens and she is straight there. Ignores the nearby crate with open door. She is following our other two dogs around everywhere. She ate a very small amount but nothing near what she should be eating.
Went potty a couple of times in the house and a couple of times in the garden.
Tried to steal the TV remote, a shoe, some paper - good start on her career of thievery!
Walks into the glass of the conservatory trying to get into the house. When I open the door for her she tried to walk through the hinge side, hitting the glass...
We can cautiously stroke her.
We put her in the crate at bedtime and she turned into this shrieking monster, she pulled the sheet off the top of the crate, banged on the door, dumped the water bowl. We tried to calm her down but her will was stronger than ours so we put a dog bed on the floor next to our bed. She then went potty (both kinds) in the bedroom and stood in it, then left poo prints all over the room. Note - she had just been outside for a while with the other dogs but didn't do anything of course. While we were cleaning up the mess she proceeded to steal anything not nailed down in the bedroom and take it to the dog bed.
Day 3
Now she look at us when we call her name, but won't come. Now eating normally. She will go up a short flight of stairs but not down them. No mess in the house today. Shows an interest in a tennis ball and a dog toy. When we open doors she walks through them with the other dogs and we were able to call her to come outside.
She figured out how to jump on the sofa, so now she is always on there.
Stealing shoes. Now carrying things around in her mouth.
We can easily stroke her, but she is still nervous. When we go to pick her up she runs away from us.
At bedtime she was desperate to get on the bed where the other dogs are. She finds a way to scramble up and she sleeps on our bed for the first time.
The poor thing 😢
Well done you, she is so lucky to have you.
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Well done for taking her on. You will find that her best teachers will be the other two dogs and she will learn to take her cue from them. With dogs who are hand-shy, I find the best approach is to always offer your hand palm-up from below their head level rather than coming over the top, where blows may have previously come from.
Hand feeding also helps them to associate hands with good things.
Good to see that she will steal things. Clearly, she still has some spirit and character. As time goes on you may be able to develop that in training.
When you are eventually able to take her out, can I recommend the Ruffwear Webmaster harness. It is well nigh impossible to wriggle out of and has saved Annie's life when she suddenly freaked out and would otherwise have run into heavy traffic.
Good luck. In a few months you will have an unrecognizably different dog. We got Annie in similar circumstances just over a year ago and good food, lots of love and patience and lots of walks have fairly transformed her.
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a great read, and improvements are starting to show.
has to laugh at "potty". At first I thought you meant the "zoomies". But you still have them to look forward too
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Oh bless her....so horrible the fear she must feel.....tlc is a wonderful healer.
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Really sad to read as its clear she has had a tough life.
However she is now very lucky to be with you.
Hope all goes well and things get easier.
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It's just lovely to see how quickly they can progress in a short time. I hope she settles and continues to make good progress. ;)
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Congratulations on your new family member and thank you for giving this wee one a new life. Boudicca sounds very much like the ex breeder we adopted a few years ago, the door problem is quite common as they have probably not been through a door until they left the puppy farm. Your own dogs will teach her, and you will look back in a month and be amazed at the change in her. Loving the idea of the diary.
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Well Boudicca has landed on all four paws with you that’s for sure :luv:
I have an ex breeder from MT, she has been with us 6 years now and whilst I thought I was reasonably dog savvy she has taught me so much about dogs but also about life.
Bella wouldn’t eat from a bowl either, as soon as I put her food directly on the floor it disappeared, she just didn’t know what the bowl was for :'( Bella took quite a while to come round but she has the added complication of being blind, if you met her now there are no clues to her past though. :luv:
I look forward to your updates, watching their true characters develop is just amazing, good luck x
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Thanks for the kind words, support and recommendation of the Ruffwear Webmaster harness!
Now we are going backwards a bit. She doesn't want to go outside every two hours, only when she wants, so it is a battle of wills. One accident in the house in the last two days.
She understands the glass doors now but has started barking at her reflection. Then one of my other dogs joins in! She did this at 6am today.
She has eaten very little in the last few days and seems to becoming picky again. Not sure how to teach her the leash when she turns her nose up at treats and doesn't want to come to me. Also found out she doesn't like clapping. :D
But we didn't expect constant progress every day, things will take time.
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The barking at her reflection may be a good sign. If she wants to defend her patch then perhaps she is starting to feel like she belongs.
I don't know how dogs are fed in a puppy farm. Big trough? We had the same issue with Annie that she didn't know what a bowl was and so her default was to be scared of it. If Boudicca isn't eating then you may need to try different things to get her to tuck in. Some cheap supermarket chicken pieces boiled and chopped up? It will be trial and error.
What you have to remember is that she has learned a series of behaviours which keep her safe. With Annie, it was - if you see a man, run!. Out of that original situation the behaviour still worked because if she ran she still didn't get kicked. That took time and patience for her to learn that she wasn't going to get kicked anyway. It was wonderful the first time she came and jumped up at me!
Good luck. The rewards are well worth all the stress.
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Both a sad and a heartwarming thread! What a life the poor little mite must have had so far, and to think that there must be thousands like her. Its makes you stop and think what we take for granted from our own dogs that have been allowed to grow up "normally" e.g. doors, stairs, even eating bowls! Well done to you for giving this little girl a chance, I'm sure its going to take a lot of patience and understanding but you're being rewarded by seeing her flourish and learn to live a happy life. All the best to you and Boudicca, would be interested to hear how she progresses!
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Things will be a bit up and down , she must be overwhelmed just now. So much to learn and experience. What about a light weight house line so she gets used to having a lead on. Food wise, she will come round, possibly not used to having regular and decent sized meals.
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It is a two steps forward, one step back kind of progression with an ex breeding girlie. It takes time for them to settle in but also time for you to understand them too. Quite honestly the first six months of having Bella were challenging and the first six weeks dreadful. We had non-stop howling and crying all night no matter what sleeping arrangements she had, human contact could offer her no comfort at all, in the end my Springer Spaniel had had enough and whilst generally she liked to sleep on the sofa, she squeezed under the table into Bella’s domain and we had peace :luv:
But the point of my story is it’s all trial and error, what works for one won’t work for another but you will get there. I have had several dogs over the years but nothing prepared me for Bella but, nothing else comes even close to how rewarding it is to see them blossom into beautiful dogs who yes, may always have some issues but still have excellent lives.
Looking forward to updates and of course pics :luv: :luv:
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Thanks for the replies and encouragement!
She is somewhat wary of my wife and very wary of me. She will come to both of us willingly, but we can't come to her without her running away. I am now praising her every time she voluntarily comes to me.
She barked at a visitor to the house for the first time yesterday. No potty mess in the house for a couple of days now but I think she is getting cheesed off with being taken outside every two hours. :D
Our previous Cocker spun around in circles when excited - I saw from another thread that lots of Cockers do this. She doesn't. She hops on the spot with all four legs! :005:
She has done a couple of strange things that made us question her vision. She walked straight into a large cardboard box on the floor and my wife put a treat in front of her but she tried to nibble on my wife's finger instead. However I figured that if she can see reflections in the glass then her eyesight is probably fine and this was just odd behavior. Will double-check with the vet tomorrow.
Last night she slept with her head on my wife's head, snoring away... :005:
(http://www.britishideas.com/forumimages/Boudicca.jpg)
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She's a beautiful girl! :luv:
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She looks lovely! Good luck with sorting her out.
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a beautiful girl :luv:
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What a beautiful girlie you have :luv:
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What a pretty girl, big difference from the wee dog that was on the Many Tears website. Well done. X
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She is now barking at visitors to the house - becoming more territorial. Also she now darts through doorways, usually shoving me out of the way! :lol:
We tried again taking her for a walk but she just shakes and lies down. That is going to take some time I think.
Yesterday she used the bathroom as... well, a bathroom. At least it's easy clean up on tiles.
After a week she is only now starting to explore the entire garden on her own rather than just sticking to where the other dogs are. We still need to be outside somewhere though - she hates being outside without us.
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She's a beauty :luv:. Enjoying reading how she is blossoming, she is lucky to find such a patient and understanding home.
Lesley and Dylan
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She is really beautiful and I am sure time will bring her along even more.......you mentioned her sight, sometimes these poor babies eyes struggle because they have been housed in sheds etc without light.
You can always mentioned it to MT
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She is lovely x :luv: :luv: do you have any neighbours with a friendly jolly dog that you could walk with? It might give her the confidence to go outside.
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The walking will come with patient persistence. We had just the same with Annie. Sometimes helps if you carry her out a short way and then see if she will walk back to home and safety. If the other dogs are with you and she sees them having fun - only a matter of time before she wants to join in.
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What a beautiful girl. :luv: Well done to you for adopting her. Its very early days but the signs are good that she is beginning to settle with you. I'm sure you kindness and patience will reap the rewards in time.
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Oh it was so lovely reading about your little girl, :luv: it will be 3 years in April since we adopted Megan from MT
( Mega's Diary part 1 & 2) she has got us wrapped around her paws all 4 of them :lol2:
sounds like you will will be wrapped around hers soon as well.
Wish we could say that Meg's is going for walks now, still to terrified to go near the front door,
but boy does she rule the house and garden. I shall be looking forward to reading all about her
progress, Time will help her to blossom into a very happy little girl.
We have found adopting a X puppy farm dog brings a lot of Love and joy into our lives,
to see them bloom is wonderful.
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Thanks again for the kind comments and encouragement!
We have decided to try to get her use to the leash in the living room. We have it attached to her collar then tempt her with some treats that she really likes. She is currently doing the commando crawl and occasionally standing up. Once in a while she pulls back and fights to get loose but we just wait for it to pass and then continue with the treats.
She has really bonded with my wife, not very much with me. She follows my wife around, listens to her giving commands to 'go potty' but for me, well... she is too distracted trying to see where my wife is.
Today was two weeks since she was spayed so we could finally wash her. She smelt pretty rank and she has taken to sleeping on my wife's head. :005: I gave the bath and she hated it. Was shaking, trying to get out, etc. I expected that. She didn't even like being dried. After I dried her I took our other two dogs for a walk. Unbeknownst to me she then went on her first zoomie. :lol2:
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things are looking up if the " zoomies" are putting in an appearance. I wonder if it might be worth a try that you give better treats than your wife in order to gain Boudicca 's trust. If i had to choose between a dry biscuit or cheese/ham :shades:
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What great progress - I'd interpret zoomies as a very positive step in the right direction!! :luv:
I think fixation on one person is quite understandable at first, for any dog but especially one with an insecure past but at this rate, she sounds like she's going to be bouncing around like any other family dog before long! Well done, you're obviously doing a great job!
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Well done for making forward steps.
As already been said, make sure you are the one that delivers the good stuff occasionally, not just the horrible baths (which by the way most of them hate no matter what their past is).
It might be worth investing in a soft harness (I love the ones from dog-games) rather than using a leash on her collar. You dont know if she has been tied up previously and a harness might break that memory.
Just a thought x
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Well done for making forward steps.
As already been said, make sure you are the one that delivers the good stuff occasionally, not just the horrible baths (which by the way most of them hate no matter what their past is).
It might be worth investing in a soft harness (I love the ones from dog-games) rather than using a leash on her collar. You dont know if she has been tied up previously and a harness might break that memory.
Just a thought x
I agree with pat re the harness. I don't think it is possible or even fare to expect this girl to be good on a lead. In fact i wouldn't even put a collar on unless she had one on in the kennels. Well i use the term kennels loosely as this type of factory breeding i find appalling.
Thank goodness fir people like you who give these lades a life 👍
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honeysmun - sorry to hear your baby is too scared to go out the front door. :'(
We tried a harness today - exactly the same behavior as with the leash. She just lies down on the floor and refuses to move. Some really great treats encourage her to commando crawl a short way but that is it.
I think the problem with walking and coming to us is still a lack of trust so we are thinking of ditching trying to train her on anything but house training until she trusts us more.
She is now trying to sort out her pecking order in the house. One of our dogs made it clear in the first few days by putting his paw on her back then he figured "job done" and stopped doing it. :lol2: However she has decided she is above our other dog, much to his chagrin.
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I think you are wise to stop worrying about lead training just now. A lot has happened in a short time, and she has a lot to sort out in her head. Over time I think she will want to go with the gang and one day she will just decide to give it a go.
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Rescued Charlie, now Amber in August this year OH is going to update site with our ups and downs but the privilege of taking one of these girls and giving them a home is hard but so worthwhile.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Major breakthrough! :banana:
We didn't do any leash training as previously mentioned. On Saturday we had an idea. The entire pack will go out for a walk together. Boudicca is very attached to my wife so for this to have a chance of working she would need to come along.
All leashes on except for Boudicca who wouldn't come to the front porch and just watched. We all went and stood just outside the front door (note: we have a large, enclosed front garden!). At this point Boudicca felt left behind so she came up to the front door. We put her leash on and closed the inner door so she couldn't get back into the house.
She refused to budge with a hooman on the end of her leash. OK, so the rest of the pack (dogs and us) walk a few steps away from the door. That was enough - she followed. We took her leash and she stopped again. We repeated this a few times until she got the message. :banana:
We walked two circuits of the front garden and decided that was enough for one day. During the short walk she was continually looking at what the two other dogs were doing - shows the importance of having other dogs in the house for situations like this.
We repeated this the next day. She was quicker to come outside.
On the third day (yesterday) it was just me and one other dog. She really really wanted to come into the front porch on her own but was just too scared. I had to go and get her, pick her up and carry her to the porch. Leash on. She didn't like that, but when I opened the front door we were off! First real walk and she did great! Important to note my wife was not with us, so that is really significant. First time she has really done anything with me.
We went to a nearby park and sat on a bench so she could take it all in. It looked like her head was spinning. There are a couple of stone lions and she had to stop and bark at them. :luv:
Anyway, she seemed very happy on the walk, sniffing everything she could and continually checking what our other dog was doing. Hopefully rapid progress now on this front.
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This is lovely to read, well done for your patience, so heartening to hear about these poor damaged souls responding to love and coming back to a life :dance04:. Do keep posting, we want to hear her progress :D
Lesley and Dylan
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Woo hoo Away you go girl :luv:
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Feeling quite choked up reading this, - what a little star you've got there, she's obviously not going to let those demons get the better of her but it must be taking a huge effort on her part. Its incredible that she's making so much progress so quickly, well done to you and your gang! I'm also joining the ranks of Boudicca followers and looking forward tomthe next episode, so do please keep us updated! Lots of :bigarmhug: to the little lady! :luv:
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Wow thats great news!! Just a thought back to the harness, could you put one of your other dogs in a harness and attach them together with a leash? She might accept being taken for a walk by your other dog!
Edited to say that we used to use this method when teaching a foal to walk alongside its mother.
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Wow thats great news!! Just a thought back to the harness, could you put one of your other dogs in a harness and attach them together with a leash? She might accept being taken for a walk by your other dog!
Edited to say that we used to use this method when teaching a foal to walk alongside its mother.
I have done this when I had one steady dog (plodder) and one who would not stop running until it reached the end of the world)
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Wow thats great news!! Just a thought back to the harness, could you put one of your other dogs in a harness and attach them together with a leash? She might accept being taken for a walk by your other dog!
Edited to say that we used to use this method when teaching a foal to walk alongside its mother.
Yes, I hope to get to that point. Currently whenever Boudicca gets worried (which is quite a bit still) she stops and squats a bit. I think right now the other dog would drag her along. However I do have a 'Y' connector to attach two dogs together because I used to walk my previous cocker and this other dog that way.
Walks are quite slow because she wants to go down every path and driveway of every house! She goes down the path/driveway, gets to the end of the leash, stops, stares at the house, then turns around as if to say "oh! there you are!" then we continue with the walk until the next house! :lol2:
Many thanks to everyone for the lovely posts. This is a very friendly and positive forum.
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I think you and your little troupe should be very, very proud of yourselves. And now Boudicca is going for a walk with you as her only human... amazing. Her little mind must be in overdrive, so much to see, hear, smell, touch and being a cocker, taste! This has made my day. Thank you for the update. xx
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:luv: what a wonderful post. Keep up the good work x
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This is such good news. Well done to you and the rest of the pack for care and patience. From our experience with Annie, at least one other dog is key. Being part of the pack is the other thing. Back in the old wolf brain, safety is with the pack. If you are somewhere scary you need your gang with you. You don't want to be left alone. She is clearly wanting to be with the pack and I was pleased to see that she is curious. She hasn't shut down.
Do keep us all informed.
Rodney
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Bless her, she has definitely found the right forever home.
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Thanks for all the lovely replies!
She has now been walking on a leash out of the house for a week and it seems to be having a positive effect in other areas. She is more happy in general and more willing to approach me for attention and treats. She still gets a bit scared on walks but nowhere near as much as before. Also she willing runs into the front porch to go for a walk! Big improvement over being scared to go there. :banana:
The thievery rate has risen significantly, and to me that is a good sign! I would say she is now more like a 3yo Cocker than when we got her, which was perhaps more like a 10yo Cocker.
House training is still a struggle. We are doing everything we can to encourage her in this area, but it is slow coming compared to everything else.
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Thanks for all the lovely replies!
She has now been walking on a leash out of the house for a week and it seems to be having a positive effect in other areas. She is more happy in general and more willing to approach me for attention and treats. She still gets a bit scared on walks but nowhere near as much as before. Also she willing runs into the front porch to go for a walk! Big improvement over being scared to go there. :banana:
The thievery rate has risen significantly, and to me that is a good sign! I would say she is now more like a 3yo Cocker than when we got her, which was perhaps more like a 10yo Cocker.
House training is still a struggle. We are doing everything we can to encourage her in this area, but it is slow coming compared to everything else.
:banana: :banana:
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So pleased to hear this. There is some good new in the world after all!
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Come April we were still left with some stubborn problems. I had to hunt her down to get her leash on to go for a walk, she was scared on walks, didn't like visitors, violently car sick and potty training was not working out at all.
Then something changed in April. We didn't notice it at the time as it was subtle, but only looking back now do we see that is when things started to change.
Something in her head made her realize she was now a family dog, and slowly, bit by bit, she started urinating in the house less and became more interested in what we were doing around the house. She was turning into a family pet instead of a dog that just happened to be living in the house with us.
For the last couple of months she has asked to go outside and no accidents inside the house. :banana:
On walks over the last few months she is less afraid of people and dogs and will happily walk on by them. Still wary, but not laying flat on the ground anymore.
Then over the last two weeks she has started running into the porch to get her leash on. I have no idea what changed!
We have some medication to help her with the car and we think it is motion-caused rather than fear as sometimes when setting out for a walk she tries to jump into the car as we walk past it. :005:
Apart from the car sickness the only problem remaining is that she barks endlessly at visitors out of fear, so we still have to work on that.
We discovered by accident that she loves to jump into cardboard boxes. Perhaps she sees them as whelping boxes, so now we have a cardboard vegetable tray/box thingy always in the living room filled with paper packaging for her to jump into and rummage around on. :005:
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Oh how wonderful! What a lovely update, so pleased for you that things have started to turn around and that she‘s finally overcoming her fears and relaxing. Its been a long haul but it sounds like you‘ve got there! Well done to you and lots of :D :bigarmhug:to the little lady!
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thanks for the update. bless her :luv:
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So lovely to hear she is coming out of her shell :luv: well,done coping with all the struggles, she is so worth it :luv:
Lesley and Dylan
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Gorgeous Boudicca, what a lovely update. Fantastic progress, it seems like she has figured out that she has her own mind, and is free to make her own choices. Just wonderful. Really well done to all the family who care for this little one, a great achievement. Xx
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What a lovely update, time and love and understanding...she is such a beauty