CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Behaviour & Training => Topic started by: JANE D on August 22, 2004, 10:20:34 PM
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Hi all - well Charlie was 1 year old last Friday and is still bouncing around full of fun which is great - except when I have my Grandchildren here. I have 2 granddaughters aged 6 & 12 who are just fine with him. They have a dog of their own so are used to it and know how to behave with him.but I also have 2 grandsons who are only 20 months and 31/2years and up till now I've always kept Charlie in the kitchen with the door open to the garden when they're here as the boys are very noisy and lively and their toys are everywhere (just normal little boys). The odd time that Charlie has managed to get in it's been chaos - he leaps about with excitement and the boys run around screaming and shouting (got the picture :o ) The problem is that quite soon I am going to be looking after the boys quite regularly for full days and I don't know what to do. I can't keep Charlie cooped up all the time or keep the children out of the garden so I'm quite worried about it. I probably should have let Charlie be with them from the beginning but with the children being so small I was frightened that he would knock them over or even nip.I've tried putting him on a lead and going in the room with them but he just goes loopy and bounces everywhere and I can't get him to calm down (I think he thinks he's going for a walk ;) .
Anyway - sorry for the long saga but any advice would be very welcome.
Jane
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Hi Jane
I am not an expert, but I would say back to basics with Charlie! I would not put him on the lead, as like you say, it hypes him up and also he may feel more threatened on the lead, should your little grandsons, get overexcited!
I would use reward training with him and use a word that everyone else must use too such as "calm" or "carfeull" when he suceeds treat him with a titbit, hot dog sausages cut into tiny pieces always work well, perhaps involve your grandsons in this too, so he realises if the saying "calm" and hes calm he will get a treat of them too! Its not impossible to train him to be careful around the boys, Indie is marvelous around my kids, when other peoples kids come into play, she wants to kiss them to death, so we use the "calm" word with her, she soon learnt, that not all children want to be bounced over and then kissed by a cocker! (LOL)
Good luck, let us know the result!
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Alternatively, you could get the boys engrossed in a game, or something on the telly, but something where they are not sat on the floor (ie above Charlie's level) and let Charlie in and tell them they must ignore him until he calms down.
If Charlie is way over the top, take him back out without saying anything to him, and when's he's calmed down again, then let him back in to try again. Repeat this as much as necessary, even though it's long and tedious, and eventually Charlie should get the message - then you could offer a treat as a reward.
Might be a bit difficult for the boys, considering their ages, but it's worth a try.
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;) I have two dogs one 5yrs and other 20wks. i have three children aged 6,3 and 20 months. i know it is hard but get them together as soon as possible. get the grandchildren to sit on the sofa for the first ten mad hello mins. Dont worry about kids being knocked over or playfully nipped. it takes a little time tears and patience but they soon get used to eachother.Dont exclude dogs by putting them away from you and the children as they may think they are being punished and resentment can start.I know you will get through and wish you luck,let us know how it goes ;)
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I have a 22 months old son. Either Balu (5 years old) chases him for food, or he does with a toy! Both had to be trained to treat each other with respect. Charlie is at the age where he can be trained to behave right ;-) But you need time to do that. Don't be afraid of anything. Dogs somehow, do respect children and usually are kind towards them, regardless of the children behaviour... well... this is not a golden rule though!
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I have a 22 months old son. Either Balu (5 years old) chases him for food, or he does with a toy! Both had to be trained to treat each other with respect. Charlie is at the age where he can be trained to behave right ;-) But you need time to do that. Don't be afraid of anything. Dogs somehow, do respect children and usually are kind towards them, regardless of the children behaviour... well... this is not a golden rule though!
Depends though as I know of some kids who've been known to punch and kick and poke dogs in the eye and still the parents expect the dog to behave impeccably rather than modify the childs behaviour (one friend refuses to let her nephews in her house as their parents won't check their childrens unruly behaviour with her dogs).
I don't have kids but my two have been well socialized with them. However they do get fretful when kids are running around screaming and wielding sticks and their parents saying my dogs get nervous because they aren't used to kids (me am not sure why my dogs should get used to a small child attempting to whack my dog with a stick and then boot Wilf in the stomach because he stole a sandwich!).
My own point of view is that kids should be taught to behave around dogs and help them differentiate with their other toys. As someone else said don't exclude the dogs but may be apart from teaching the kids how to behave round dogs maybe distract the kids when the behaviour gets out of hand. Also make sure the dogs have a quiet time away from their attention occasionally so that tempers don't fray in even the best behaved dog
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I agree with all the advice here. The children have to be trained as well as the dog. My girls have friends round and a few of them are afraid of dogs and the fuss they make makes Molly even more excited and boisterous. We are making (slow) progress but sometimes I get really irritated when the parents react in the same way - any wonder their children are afraid of dogs. There should be dog socialisation classes for kids - without exception <_< .
We use the word 'calm' with Molly too, in a quiet low voice. Seems to work wonders.
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Hi I agree with training the children to behave as well as the dog, although with the very young child, I wouldn't take the risk of allowing them to play together. Toddlers can be very unpredictable, although I do think you should encourage supervised play, ie throwing a ball and saying 'sit' etc.
Good luck ;)
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I'm with the training the children side. You need to have them settled and quiet before you introduce the dog. Dogs react to what is going on around them - excited children will result in excited dog and vice vera! As the children are more likey to understand you need to get them under control first! They need to be sat down on a chair quietly playing before you bring the dog in. Try not to make an issue of him entering the room - no leads or excited chatter - get him to sit quiet with you (hold his collar if nessesary) while the children get on with their play (paying little attention to the dog). Let him watch untill he is settled enough not to bound over them. Test the water by allowing the kids to come over and stroke him and then walk away if they all manage to stay calm then he may be fine to walk round the room as they play.
Just take it slowly - if the children get excited or loud at any time take the dog out of the room untill you can get them settled again.
We have visiting children and most of the time the children are the manic ones! Controling the dogs is the easy bit!
Children who are raised with dogs just get on with it and don't cause a fuss. The ones who aren't get over excited, scared, emotional and creat a noise. Which gets the dog interested which makes the situation worse -
Good luck,any way!!
Clare
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Depends though as I know of some kids who've been known to punch and kick and poke dogs in the eye and still the parents expect the dog to behave impeccably rather than modify the childs behaviour (one friend refuses to let her nephews in her house as their parents won't check their childrens unruly behaviour with her dogs).
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I don't have kids but my two have been well socialized with them. However they do get fretful when kids are running around screaming and wielding sticks and their parents saying my dogs get nervous because they aren't used to kids (me am not sure why my dogs should get used to a small child attempting to whack my dog with a stick and then boot Wilf in the stomach because he stole a sandwich!).
My own point of view is that kids should be taught to behave around dogs and help them differentiate with their other toys.
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true true... children should be trained too... I never let my kid to poke on Balu's eyes or drag her tail... I don't expect Balu to react 'in a nice manner', when she's in terrible pain! Altough I 'increased' her tolerance levels before the kiddo arrived home, I'm still very careful at both of them.
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I don't expect Balu to react 'in a nice manner', when she's in terrible pain!
Sadly some people do, and here my friend and I have seen too much lazy parenting around which contributes to this.
Its also the thought of impending pain to a dog if a child is wielding a stick in an attempt to thump the dog even if they don't actually do it. I just thought it was a lame excuse/wrong reasoning to give to a child to say don't hit them with a stick or drag them round being strangled by their collar because they're not used to children (as if its right to do this in dogs that are used to children) rather than suggesting that you just don't do that full stop to any living creature (and to some people—not on COL—I don't have an opinon as I don't have kids so am not allowed to argue that one).
Funny thing is its mostly been the young boys I have problems with as the girls (from very young up) have been brilliant and form part of the Ruby and Wilf fan club (there's usually a queue)!
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My children were brought up with dogs,( i don't like calling children kids. ) ;) in fact we had dogs before we had children. The dogs and children, were taught respect and tolerance toward each other from the word go.
Nell was realy hyper as a pup, :blink: and when my grandchildren came, we always put her on a lead till the initial excitment had passed.
it worked for us, :) although now she still gets a bit excited, she knows not to jump
up, and does seem aware of her size. ( Nell is a lab )
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Sadly some people do, and here my friend and I have seen too much lazy parenting around which contributes to this.
Its also the thought of impending pain to a dog if a child is wielding a stick in an attempt to thump the dog even if they don't actually do it. I just thought it was a lame excuse/wrong reasoning to give to a child to say don't hit them with a stick or drag them round being strangled by their collar because they're not used to children (as if its right to do this in dogs that are used to children) rather than suggesting that you just don't do that full stop to any living creature (and to some people—not on COL—I don't have an opinon as I don't have kids so am not allowed ot argue that one).
Funny thing is its mostly been the young boys I have problems with as the girls (from very young up) have been brilliant and form part of the Ruby and Wilf fan club (there's usually a queue)!
Agree,
I guess that first, parents should be trained, to train both dogs and children ;)
Well, usually girls do have a 'motherhood' instinct in their genes. Boys are just trying to pass their own word...
The best I've suceeded to have done with Nikolas and Balu is to distruct each one from the 'upcoming' fight... so for Balu is 'catch a ball' something, and for Nikolas to bring me the TV control or something else. Telling a toddler a constant *no*, has a reverse effect from the desired... Training is not easy on either side... but it's worth it :)
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Have to say I'm disgusted that some parents allow their children to treat dogs badly :angry: (Not referring to the original post here obviously, but to some of the things Penny mentioned).
I would say the best thing to do to regarding small children and a dog is to invest in some portable stairgates to start with...so that they can get used to each other without the worry of the children pulling the dog or the dog jumping on the children. I would agree that it's probably not a good idea to bring the lead into it if he thinks it means walk time.
My youngest child is only a toddler and he is proof that any age child can be taught respect for dogs...and most dogs can be taught to respect small children who respect them.
We've just used very similar methods with the children and dogs. Toby was used to children when we had him, but had never lived with a child as young as Jacob. We used rewards for both Toby and Jacob when they behaved well with each other. We always supervised them, and made Toby sit when he was near Jacob, then encouraged Jacob to stoke him nicely.
With a bit of patience, it will all work out okay. It just takes effort and time to get them used to each other.
Good luck!! :D
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I agree with lots of excellent advice so far. Putting children and dogs together almost turns into a double training session! :blink: The children need to be rewarded for quiet calm play around a puppy/dog. The puppy/dog needs to also be rewarded for calm behaviours round children. Low activity from both sides promotes calmness and reduces high arousal states and everyone is happier all round :D
It is imperative that young children and puppies are never left alone without adult supervision. The use of stairgates are wonderfull for allowing contact without the pup being alienated. Dogs and children can then observe each other as well.
I clicker trained one child round Brogan when he was a puppy :lol: - was a nightmare with him - to the point that I usually crated Brogan for his own safety. One day though I decided to reward the child with a "good" and a smartie whenever calm around Brogan. Brogan also got rewarded with a click and treat for ignoring the child and paying attention to me - hard work but a success! :lol:
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I personally feel the vast majority of kids are well behaved and respect dogs :) Yes some toddlers can get overexcited with dogs, but if the dog is well trained and well socialised, the dog should be able to cope with that, and behave accordingly!
When we got Indie, she had to fit into our family routine, not the other way around, as although we love her dearly, she is the bottom of the pack! My children have always respected dogs and animals alike, not all dog owners teach their dog to accept childrens behaviour though <_<
In the situation of the original poster, she is doing all she can, trying to find out the best way of dealing with this, which is very commendable ;) Dogs and children can be either two things a recipe for disaster or a recipe of love :D With time and patience I am sure the latter will be the outcome for Jane!
Sometimes, I feel a bit annoyed on dog forums, as people can be very quick to judge children and to tar them all with the same brush, as maybe ONE incident, they have heard of :( No wonder children lose faith in adults, as so many adults don't tend to give children much credit or respect! No matter how much we all adore and cherish our dogs, children should always come first!
Jane, I wish you luck in however you decide to deal with this, I am sure there will be a happy outome, within a couple of weeks :rolleyes:
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Many thanks to you all for your comments. I have to say that my grandsons are normal, lively and very young little boys and neither their parents or I would tolerate either of them doing anything whatever to harm Charlie. They are allowed to talk to him and pet him gently through a baby gate that separates the kitchen from the dining area which is great. Neither of them is frightened of this contact and enjoy it. However when they go away to play the tempo invariably rises. Joe 31/2 is currently Spiderman or Buzz Lightyear with Jack 20mnths joining in the "into infinity and beyond" !! :rolleyes: Of course Charlie can hear this and wants to join in but as has happened on the times he's got in (usually my fault because I haven't fastened the gate properley and therefore he makes a dash for it) the boys have been frightened by this big dog chasing about, jumping and running off with their toys.
I'm sure it would have been easier if the children were here all the time and had been growing up with Charlie around all the time but they usually visit just once or twice a week untill now.
I know this isn't going to be easy as a 20month old child just doesn't understand about sitting still on the sofa and being scared that Charlie will eventually calm down and trying to reassure him and control Charlie at the same time :unsure: :unsure:
I'm still not sure how I'm going to resolve this but hopefully my daughter and I can make a concerted effort in the next 2 weeks before she returns to work at the new school term.
Sorry - another saga
many thanks
Jane
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;) You know your pets and family better than anyone, you can judge the situation and monitor it.Unfortunatley there is no easy way to do it but you will and when you have sit back and enjoy as children and dogs when supervised correctly play wonderfully and are a joy to watch.Good luck let us know how it goes. :D
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Emma...I know what you mean about the attitudes that sometimes arise on some forums regarding children. Sometimes you wonder why it's okay to make horrible remarks about children, it does bother me :(
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:huh: Yes totally agree children are not all the same and it is our job too teach them right from wrong. my kids worship my dogs and visa versa. both dogs and kids have to be pulled up on unaceptable behavior,again that is how they learn. ;)
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Emma...I know what you mean about the attitudes that sometimes arise on some forums regarding children. Sometimes you wonder why it's okay to make horrible remarks about children, it does bother me :(
It bothers me as well Kelly, ive heard them referred to as brats on one forum. :( it might only be tongue in cheek,then again it might not, but it realy annoys me. :angry:
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I sometimes find that some people I know (won't call them friends <_< ) who have dogs, but no kids are extremely biased against them (kids). At the other end of the scale some people with kids but no dogs look upon having dogs as the foulest thing you could ever imagine. Certainly at least half the people I've told about us getting a second dog have looked at me as if I'm completely stark raving mad!!
I love my kids, but not all kids and I love my dog(s) but not all dogs. Each to their own I say, but lumping all dogs together in the smelly foul brute league and all children into the evil whining brats league is wrong. I don't believe anyone wins in a situation where hurtful remarks are made about either.
Don't know if any of this makes sense or gets my point across properly but I'm very tired :rolleyes: :D
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;) Well said Tracey could not have put it better myself.I too get offended by the narrow minded comments made on kids and dogs. ;)
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well, I guess that one result comes from all this conversation :-)
Good willing, patience, persistance, tolerance and 'hope', is the 'secret' recipe for our little ones... both children and dogs :)
Experience is not a must ingredient as it is usually being added time after time.. ;) but it should be known how to be used once it's been gained ;)
A good company to gain knowledge (this is here :) ).
Time... well... this is something relevant for all of us... but... hey, they deserve it.. don't they? :)
good luck :)
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My children were 2 and 4 when we got our Labrador Goldie as a pup.
The initial couple of weeks were rather hectic, while both children and puppy learnt about each other.
My children had never really been around dogs before, but knew that they should never mistreat her in any way.
Gradually they all settled down with each other and the initial exuberance wore off.
I have always found that both dogs are much more gentle and settle far more quickly if they are allowed to greet people....if they are ever closed away it seems to just get them hyper.
I would start from now, letting children and dog meet with your supervision.
Have a quiet area away from the noise and excitement if your dog wants to escape.
Explain to the children how to play calmly and quietly when the dog is in the room.
It may take a little time, but usually dogs and children learn how to interact really well together.
Plenty of rewards for both sides :lol: and you will get results.
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This has been a really useful string for me, thank you, as I am in the middle of teaching my 3 /2 yr old daughter and 12 week old puppy how to live with each other :blink: . Neither have any experience of the other (daughter of doggies and Molo of children) so its a big learning curve for all of us.
One of the most useful things I've done is taught my daughter to 'stand still like a statue' if Molo is bouncing around her and she is nervous. Molo gets bored and wanders off, and she learns not to excite him by flapping, running or squealing, but its still a game for her.
Inerestingly, there are things that she has had to be taught about dogs, cos the TV and books are not very clear - dogs don't understand when you 'talk' to them, and can't talk back, for instance (watch the Tweenies if you don't believe me :huh: )
It will take a few more weeks I think, but we'll get there slowly
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Mary and I wrote an FAQ on this very subject...both having children and cockers..not sure if this helps
Cockers & Children FAQ (http://cockersonline.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=2687)[/size]
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I love my kids, but not all kids and I love my dog(s) but not all dogs.
I'd agree with the sentiments of this in the sense that I love some kids but not all kids etc. just as much as I like some parents and not those who are too lazy to bother teaching their children the rights and wrongs of everything as they're too wrapped up in their own lives
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I love my kids, but not all kids and I love my dog(s) but not all dogs.
I'd agree with the sentiments of this in the sense that I love some kids but not all kids etc. just as much as I like some parents and not those who are too lazy to bother teaching their children the rights and wrongs of everything as they're too wrapped up in their own lives
I would agree with that. People who can't be bothered with their children or their pets shouldn't really have had them.
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I get narked when we are out and childen move towards my girls (who are obviously waggy and happy) only to be dragged away by parents who are muttering 'don't touch the dog dear it might bite'. Did they ask me if my dog bites - no! Did i pull the dog away or warn the child off - no!
I feel like saying 'don't go near that child, fern , they might pull your ears or poke you in the eye!'
Keep your child under control by all means but do not accuse my dogs of biting!!!!
Our friends little girl has visited since she was born - virtually her first words in our house were 'down doggy down' as she waded between three dogs almost bigger than her with her biscuit held above her head! I love kids like that!
clare
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I get narked when we are out and childen move towards my girls (who are obviously waggy and happy) only to be dragged away by parents who are muttering 'don't touch the dog dear it might bite'. Did they ask me if my dog bites - no! Did i pull the dog away or warn the child off - no!
I feel like saying 'don't go near that child, fern , they might pull your ears or poke you in the eye!'
Keep your child under control by all means but do not accuse my dogs of biting!!!!
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I can't be bothered to chat with these kind of parents. I'm rather fed up. What they eventually do, is to pass their fear to the child... which eventually in this sensitive age... the fear doubles and sums up :(
Imagine if you tell them that your dog... sometimes licks your child... :lol: :lol: :lol: You need a camera to keep their faces forever!
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I think its important that parents actually ask the owner of the dog, can the children stroke the dog! We know are dogs are OK, but not all dogs are ok, and if we don't know you, then how are we as parents supposed to know that the dog is ok around children?? As a parent and a dog lover/owner, I would NEVER let my children stroke a dog without prior asking permission off the owner. The reason for this is my daughter (then 4) went to stroke a cocker, I asked the man was it ok, he said yes, but hes a bit nervous, next thing this dog bit my childs hand :o ;) Not fair on my daughter or the dog in question! I think its common sence to ask before allowing children to pet dogs they don't know :)
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;) I agree with you totally Emma. :)
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I can't be bothered to chat with these kind of parents. I'm rather fed up. What they eventually do, is to pass their fear to the child... which eventually in this sensitive age... the fear doubles and sums up :(
That is a real bugbear of mine - parents who are scared of dogs who pass the terror to their kids. A child who is scared of dogs is far more likely to be bitten, IMO.
Years ago I was walking my very old Jamie off lead in the local park area which has some narrow bits around the river. We came to a woman with a toddler walking well ahead of her. She had a fit - "Don't touch the dog!!!!" and then accused me of having an out-of-control dog! Jamie hadn't even sniffed the child, he was about 3 inches in front of me, was 13 years old and was a beautiful golden cocker that all other people and kids went 'aawww' over.
The very sad thing is that this child will probably grow up terrified of dogs.
I really do hate people who do that to their children.
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I can't be bothered to chat with these kind of parents. I'm rather fed up. What they eventually do, is to pass their fear to the child... which eventually in this sensitive age... the fear doubles and sums up :(
That is a real bugbear of mine - parents who are scared of dogs who pass the terror to their kids. A child who is scared of dogs is far more likely to be bitten, IMO.
Years ago I was walking my very old Jamie off lead in the local park area which has some narrow bits around the river. We came to a woman with a toddler walking well ahead of her. She had a fit - "Don't touch the dog!!!!" and then accused me of having an out-of-control dog! Jamie hadn't even sniffed the child, he was about 3 inches in front of me, was 13 years old and was a beautiful golden cocker that all other people and kids went 'aawww' over.
The very sad thing is that this child will probably grow up terrified of dogs.
I really do hate people who do that to their children.
I accept what you are saying completely, however, you don't know what experience the parents or the child has had of dogs in the past! Sometimes this what would seem irrational behaviour stems from a terrible incident that anyone of them, may have had. As a parent, we do everything possible to keep our children safe, sometimes yes, I agree people do go overboard, but like I say, we don't know their experiences and they don't know that our dogs are safe!
Sorry mods, if the thread has gone abit off topic.
No smilies again, sorry
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This reminds me of an incident that happened in our local forest a few weeks before Molo came home.
I took my young daughter on a trip to the forest to check it out as a possible puppy socialisation place, and obviously, we met many dog walkers and their dogs.
In a particularly dense part of the forest (we were looking for pine cones :rolleyes: ), with a narrow path, we were faced with a pair of off-lead Wiemeramers (?) who were bounding around happily.
As they were bigger than my daughter and she was getting increasingly nervous as they got closer, I scooped her up into my arms.
A very defensive owner said "they won't hurt, you know". Yes, I am confident that they wouldn't have - but my daughter has no experience of dogs and may inadvertantly frighten or hurt a dog in her efforts to avoid its attention.
What I am trying to say is that when a parent tells their child to stay away from your dog, it may be that they are thinking of the well being of your doggy...........I agree that no-one should tell any child that a dog may bite though has this does reinforce any fear, and indeed, sows the seed of fear into an otherwise innocent child - as in my daughters case who was told by a nursery worker to stay away from a doggy cos it may bite when they were on a nursery outing :angry: ...and we are still trying to undo that misconception!
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I think its important that parents actually ask the owner of the dog, can the children stroke the dog! We know are dogs are OK, but not all dogs are ok, and if we don't know you, then how are we as parents supposed to know that the dog is ok around children?? As a parent and a dog lover/owner, I would NEVER let my children stroke a dog without prior asking permission off the owner..........
I agree. I never allow Nikolas to touch another dog unless the owner is next to it and he/she gives permission... always under my *strict* supervision. My son is still an unpredictable little explorer...'oh, is that an eye...?' --> poke! :rolleyes:
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I can't be bothered to chat with these kind of parents. I'm rather fed up. What they eventually do, is to pass their fear to the child... which eventually in this sensitive age... the fear doubles and sums up :(
That is a real bugbear of mine - parents who are scared of dogs who pass the terror to their kids. A child who is scared of dogs is far more likely to be bitten, IMO.
Years ago I was walking my very old Jamie off lead in the local park area which has some narrow bits around the river. We came to a woman with a toddler walking well ahead of her. She had a fit - "Don't touch the dog!!!!" and then accused me of having an out-of-control dog! Jamie hadn't even sniffed the child, he was about 3 inches in front of me, was 13 years old and was a beautiful golden cocker that all other people and kids went 'aawww' over.
The very sad thing is that this child will probably grow up terrified of dogs.
I really do hate people who do that to their children.
My neighbour is terrible for this :rolleyes:
She is afraid of dogs. So she insists her children of 6 and 3 are frightened of dogs.
Her 6 year old is my daughter's best friend, and when she has come over for birthday parties etc she has LOVED the dogs. She isn't afraid of them at all.
But the little boy is shoved behind his mum all the time when even a nose appears at my front door, so it'a hardly surprising he is nervous of dogs.
She also thinks dogs are unhygenic.
I don't think it's fair to do this to children. I'm frightened of spiders...but I never show it to my children. I have moved spiders with a glass and piece of paper, my heart racing inside, but saying "Nothing to worry about, just a silly spider" and they are not afraid of spiders at all now. It is possible to control your fears in front of your children.
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I accept what you are saying completely, however, you don't know what experience the parents or the child has had of dogs in the past! Sometimes this what would seem irrational behaviour stems from a terrible incident that anyone of them, may have had. As a parent, we do everything possible to keep our children safe, sometimes yes, I agree people do go overboard, but like I say, we don't know their experiences and they don't know that our dogs are safe!
Sorry mods, if the thread has gone abit off topic.
No smilies again, sorry
Not to be misunderstood... I'm arguing these kind of parents... not you ;-)
writing mood, good :-)
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True, all of us, more or less, had bad experiences with many things... I have actually been bitten by dogs three times, one of these cases I had to go to a hospital for precaution reasons...and it wasn't even my fault in two of these cases.
Many of us had little car accidents... or know ppl who have had car accidents, even fatal. Most parents do smoke in front of their children and we all know that smoke does kill... so do other things too. Have you ever heard a parent to tell their boy/girl... 'don't drive, I had an accident when I was younger'... I don't think so. And if yes, it would be one or two cases. I don't know a single one.
I respect the wish of ppl, not to touch my dog... allergies, fear, hate... whatever. But I don't like the way that it's passed to the children. Children, use us as role-models and they tend to be 'alike' us. I heard the other time some kids aged from 7 to 10 to swear at my dog... when my wife asked them why they said such things... they replied because dogs are bad and always bite... yes ofcourse... according to their parents they *do*. When my wife explained to them that dogs are not bad for such and such reasons, their behaviour towards Balu changed immediately(to a better one), we hope towards other dogs too.
Children tend to follow up us, because everything we do or say... is right (?).
According to the national board of security committe of US, the death chances are
Car accident => 1/242
Drowning => 1/1028
...
...
Dog bite => 1/137694 <=
I was walking down the street last year, with my wife, Nikolas, and Balu. A man with his child on a stroller passed next to us and said something *really bad*, in front of all of us but not exactly *to* us. His child heard that. When I asked him what was the problem, he just went away... I was really annoyed, firstly because our *children* were in front of us...
Now, IMHO, what this man taught to his child:
a) All dogs are monsters and deserve to be punished. :huh:
B) Use bad language when applicable to all animals, especially when the owners are in front... :o
c) Don't stand up for your opinion. Be a coward and run away. Don't even be bothered to give a diplomatic/politically correct answer ;)
When someone has a bad experience, he/she must pay attention and if possible to avoid it next time it occurs... learn by his/her mistake/unfortune. But passing this fear to a child, is a 'crime'. He/she must talk to his/her child how to avoid it by analysing the +and-, and be next to it, as a guarding angel. Children psychology/personality is very delicate/sensitive and is formed until the age of 6, if I remember well.
I also agree that parents do not know if our dogs are safe and eventually they wish *not* to touch it. Good... it'll be wise then for them not to allow their children to touch our dogs... but in a nice manner. ie, 'the dog is tired now, we'll come tomorrow and play with it', or find_a_good_non_fear/terror_excuse, would be ideal ;-)
I'm not a perfect parent, none is... but I try to learn from my mistakes, and listen to people who know a few things more than I do. These kind of parents tend to listen to noone for many things.
Erm... sorry this was a long post, and again, it was not intended to argue Mrsbojangles :-) please please don't get me misunderstood...
ok, i missed Balu.. i'll go and give her a hugeeee hug, for being good to all of the children even if she is tortured and sweared! B) i'll b back in a sec.
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She also thinks dogs are unhygenic.
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they are, aren't they... they carry HIV, Hepatitis, flu, skin diseases, gum problems, miningitis, chicken pox, and many other things... :lol:
Good thing is that they also carry a BIG BIG heart, and have a good sense of humour, and forgive all these ppl who *really* believe the above!!! B)
Is she with a chlorine solution when she sees your dog??? :lol:
ok, i'm getting off the topic now... if in need, this msg can be erased by a mod. Sorry.
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...A child who is scared of dogs is far more likely to be bitten, IMO.
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true. When my brother was 12 I think, he got bitten by a German Sh. We had to rush him in to a hospital and the doctors did 6-7 stiches... if I remember well. Maybe more.
He still lives with my parents, they own 2 dogs and he generally adores all dogs. Why? Because we didn't turn our 'rage' to the dog when this happened. The dog was tortured by some kids that time. My brother tried to cuddle it and... got bitten.
He wasn't afraid of the dogs after that, because we explained to him that it wasn't the dog's fault, nor his mistake (well... it was his mistake, but not 100%).
Our mistake was that we didn't explained to him at first place that we don't interact with unknown dogs unless they have our trust, blah blah blah. Well... we didn't expect that this would happen.
My father didn't sue the owners.
Handling panic situations in a diplomatic way, is the A and Z for a child.
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I can only state my personal experience - being brought up with dogs from birth, I've never been scared of them and have never been bitten.
My grandparents had a golden cocker when I was born and up to the age when I was 3ish (1969). He had problems and bit everyone but me. I remember clearly him suddenly jumping up and taking a chunk out of the arm of my aunt who was sitting next to me.
Despite that, no one ever suggested I should be scared of dogs. My bitten aunt has continued to have cockers all her life, my grandmother had another dog with us young children and I will always have rescue dogs.
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It's funny because I was bitten twice as a child by dogs but because my parents and people around me reacted in a matter-of-fact way, I was never scared of dogs. It would obviously have been different if I'd been savaged...but that's extremely rare anyway.
I think people sometimes do overreact to dog bites nowadays. Years ago, if a child teased a dog and it bit, the child was told it served them right.
Now, it's always the dogs fault.
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George, no misunderstanding taken atall :)
I would never react in the ways you described, but then you know that anyway B) I would still never let my children stroke a dog that I don't know, I will always seek permission off the owner, I wouldn't say "Hey does your dog bite" I say, "Is it ok, if we pet your dog" I have no fear atall of dogs, despite being pinned against a wall by a rhodesian ridgeback when I was a kennel maid :
George don't worry atall, I know exactly what you are saying and I know its not aimed at me personally :P
Whoops now we have gone way off topic, sorry again Mods :)
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I would still never let my children stroke a dog that I don't know, I will always seek permission off the owner, I wouldn't say "Hey does your dog bite" I say, "Is it ok, if we pet your dog"
I am the same Emma. My children know to ask before they stroke other people's dogs.
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I recall in a very foggy memory from my grand-grand father, instructing me not to touch the dog when he was eating. I was something like 4 or 5. I have pictures of me next to this dog. His name was Black and he was a hunting dog. I remember some of his instructions like, 'don't torture, hit, or tease the dog and let him sleep when he wants to. Otherwise he'll probably <bite> you'. I still do follow his advices, not because my dog will bite, but as a matter of respect. ;)
Ofcourse in a form of lessons, I did take her food away, just to teach her not to be aggresive... :rolleyes:
Children should learn how to respect all forms of life, and that eventually, animals existed on this planet millions of years before the so called 'civilised humans' arrived, and that eventually nature can teach many things to us if we treat it right. B)
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I have a friend who's scared of dogs espescially Staffie's and similar looking dogs and she has passed this fear on to her daughter, I have tried talking to her about passing on this fear but she doesn't listen.
Last year we were on a walk when a lady with a staffie, ( being very well behaved and walking nicely on a lead ) walked towards us, my friend started to panic and screamed at the woman to get the dog away, my friends daughter at this stage was screaming and trying to get in her mother's arms, which was quite difficult as she had her son in a back pack! :rolleyes:
The lady just looked at us as if we were mad and I did feel rather silly, I tried to explain to my friend that she was passing her fear's on to the child, but she could not rationalise what I was saying.
I think it is very important to teach children to love and respect animals and I have tried with my children to teach them that if they see an animal they must ask me and the owner if they can stroke it and never to go straight up to it.
It does upset me as an owner of 2 very friendly dogs when people move their children away from them as if they were a pair of ravishing wolves!
But everybody's different I suppose! ;)
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I think we can say that it is imprtant that all involved are 'well trained'. The adults (including dog owner) need to be reponsible without overreacting, the dogs need to be well behaved as do the children.
oh for a perfect world!