CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Behaviour & Training => Topic started by: Cob-Web on October 18, 2004, 07:35:38 AM
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HELP!
I have done a search and can't find any previous threads on this, but I don't believe Molo is alone in his latest new 'habit' :D
He has always jumped up at us, and I have successfully reduced it when we are standing or walking around by ignoring him and turning away - and then praising him when he has all four paws in contact with the ground.
However, he jumps up when we are sat at the table eating; and because he has grown he can now put his paws on the edge of the table :rolleyes:
He has been taught the 'off' command, and if told repeatedly, he eventually does get down, but this seems to be 'rewarding' him by giving him attention when he jumps. Similarly, I don't want to push him down, either.
Any suggestions on how to resolve this? Would the water pistol approach work? I am trying to only use positive reinforcement methods; but it is really difficult when we are eating, I don't want to food reward him when he doesn't jump cos it may teach him to beg at the table.
As a last resort, when OH is at the end of his tether, I have isolated Molo from the table; but don't really want to use this as a solution as we eventually hope to take Molo when we eat out at the many dog friendly pubs nearby.
I'd be grateful for any suggestions, thanks
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You could use the water pistol for this - but I think you'd be better reinforcing the down and stay with a reward. Try sitting at the table without food and doing it then, and also doing it with say a biscuit or some toast - not a meal and see it as a training session. As soon as he goes to put his feet up make him get off with a firm "no" then go "off","down" and "stay". When he's down - give him a treat - not your toast or biccy though - this is crucial.
You could also encourage him to want to stay down by giving him something yummy to chew on so that that keeps his attention. Give him praise while he's down and chewing and if you're lucky - you should get some results, but he must never be allowed to put his feet on the table and get away with it.
For now when you are eating a meal put him out of the way so you can concentrate on your meal rather than what Molo is doing.
This is a really hard one and tbh one we never sorted with Jasper - he's always doing it. Buddy on the other hand never jumps up at the table. He just sits patiently.
hth
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Mmmmm, I've never managed to fix this one either :lol: I think it's a cocker thing ;) As Pammy suggests, I think you just need to keep on doing what your doing annoying as it may be. This may take some time and he might never stop doing it completely but to a lesser degree. Butty isn't as bad as she used to be and she doesn't jump up when people are eating anymore at the table. I'm sure in the Perfect Puppy it mentions the use of a house lead in situations like this but I didn't resort to anything like that, I just ended up sounding like a stuck record. This age can be quite tiring, they are trying new things, pushing the boundaries AND teething :huh: All I can say is just hang in there ;)
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Alfie has been doing this lately and hes sussed that when we are both at the table food is also around - not that I ever hand him tid bits.
For times when we ae just having a snack I do resort to firmly pushing him down, hand on chest, with "down". He will try it again but tends to give up after the second attempt.
Dinner times were a bit harder. Cos we have what the americans would call a family room, we prepare, eat and basically live in the kitchen. So he would be drooling the minute he saw me at the work tops and by time we were sitting down he was so worked up, that pushing him down just seem to made him more excitable. What I do now is to prepare him a meal at the same time so he eats his and we are left in peace. When I say "meal" we are talking a teaspoon of peas, a bit of cauli or carrot or cabbage and a tiny bit of potato or rice- basically whatever veg we are having. I dont use salt when cooking so I cant see it doing him any harm. He loves it and when finished he just curls up under the table and sleeps leaving us to eat in peace. I can honestly say hand on heart that the amount hes given is no more then 2 tablespoons and I never give cooked meat - just veg and starches.
Maybe not the best way of handling things but it works for us
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I wouldn't say that I've ever managed to stop this completely either :rolleyes: Lottie will still 'occasionally' jump up but once she has the firm 'NO' from me she just slumps off somewhere. Luckily she doesn't sit there drooling still ;) She will try it on more if it's just the children at the table though even though they are very firm with her :angry:
As Pammy said, you must be consistent and keep reinforcing it and hopefully it will 'click' ;)
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Not a lot I can really add here Rachel - but we've found that Woody is fine at pubs because we tie him to the table and he just lies at our feet and sleeps.
At home he is slightly more interested but as I've mentioned before, it's not the food he's after, it's the napkins which he likes to steal!! We just totally ignore him if he starts being over-interested on what's on the table and he soon gives up.
Hope you can use some of the other advice on offer and find a solution soon!
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i'm not sure that getting him to sit and then giving him a reward by the table is not just giving him exactly what he wants!
We just shout down at ours - if they don't respond (two warnings)they get pushed off the table and a bum tap. Seems to have worked because they won't jump up now. I just get ferns head between my legs!!!
They have to behave really - this christmas there will be 7 dogs around the xmas table! Can you imagine the destruction if they don't behave!
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Wow! :lol: 7 dogs! You're going to need a big turkey :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Aren't we!!!! :lol:
There will be:
Fern
Willow
Nell
Bryony
Gypsi
Sue
and dad's new springer pup.
That is 1 black lab, 4 cockers and 2 springers!
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... and a partridge in a pear tree!!
Sorry - couldn't resist!! ;)
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:lol: :lol: :lol:
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LOL and how many people??? Bet the dogs are less trouble than them! :lol: :lol:
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My goodness seven dogs :blink: its bad enough with one. Do they all get a cracker each? ;)
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Erm - let me count...
me
james
sally (my sis)
Neil
mum
dad
nan
Auntiemum
8!!! Luckily my sis won't be bringing her 2 springers and dad leaves his one gun dog out side! or there would be 10!!!! :blink:
Do they have crackers????? I think we are all crackers!!! Fern always tries to mug mum for the carrots and thinks it is her god given right to sit in the kitchen!!! If you tell them to get out all the others trot off and fern just sits there!! 'they have gone now -you can chuck me the carrots!!!!'
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Oscar will do anything for a carrot too :lol:
Bizarre isn't it....I think he's really a donkey in disguise :rolleyes: He's certainly big enough! :lol:
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I've had this problem from the off. She now can jump on the sofa so nothing is safe from her.
I have a coke can with pennies in it and I shake it at her until she gets down then reward her with biscuit. She hates the noise, but I have to say sometimes it makes her go hyper. Then she just gets booted into her crate.
I think positive reinforcement is great, but sometimes a sharp blast of noise is better. I tried the water pistol and this just made it worse as she thought it was excellent fun and had a permanent elvis hairdo from all the water we spayed at her head :lol:
If you find a good solution, Rachel, Let me know. You know how Bella and Molo were seperated at birth and all. :D
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They have to behave really - this christmas there will be 7 dogs around the xmas table! Can you imagine the destruction if they don't behave!
WOW i thought i was brave with three, have a woofderfull christmas and snap, i do the same as you to keep them down and it works.
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Both my two know that they're not allowed near us and food... We haven't got room in the current place for a dining table we can use everyday, but at Mum's they just go to sleep on your feet.
When we eat on our lap trays they do try to stick their noses onto the trays, but I tell them off and they give it up straight away :)
I did hear that when we were on our honeymoon, Jovi actually jumped onto my sister's lap and tried to take a sandwich out of her mouth whilst she was eating it!!!! :o He's never done that to us and he knows what kind of reception he'd get if he tried, so I think he was just trying it on with her.
Only just started giving my two carrots.. how quick do they disappear!!!!!!!
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You should get some good pic's for the gallery.
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I think the key here is prevention.
It sounds to me like the dog thinks this is a game, “I jump up, wait for the command to get down then wait for the reward”.
Get control of the dog in this situation and let her know your watching her. I would use a command the dog knows as discipline, for our dog this is a firm “Down” or “No” now the hard bit, you have to anticipate that Molo is about to jump up and stop her before she does it using the same command every time.
The other thing we found is, if you reward the dog for everything she does correctly she will just get confused and do bad things just so she can be corrected and rewarded, better to let her know when you are displeased with her, and leave it at that.
Perhaps if you try to reduce the amount of eye contact with Molo or ignore her completely, even turning your back on her after discipline she might get the message, you will find your own way of achieving this.
Our dog can misunderstand reward (in whatever form) as a command to be released and do its own thing so to speak so be careful you are not having the same effect.
Don’t try to push the dog down with hands as the dog will just come back at you, it turns it into a game if you use hands, and make sure everyone has the same rules. I see our kids watching telly and the dog comes over to the settee tail wagging front paws up on the settee. The natural reaction of the kids is to fuss the dog therefore rewarding her for getting up, I don’t tell the dog off just a firm “down” but the kids are reminded of the rules.
To make you feel better our dog used to launch its self-full speed at anyone sitting on the settee ready to play bite and be pushed away etc. etc. Don’t worry you will stop it and you will surprise yourself how easy it was.
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I think that if you absolutely do not feed them at the table, then eventaully they realise this and just back off ... Having said this, my 9 year old bitch Barley is worse that our 2 yr old N. dog Bramble - he just lies down until we have finished and then checks out any left-overs - she is constantly in attendance (hope springs eternal etc) (greedy cow !!).
If your dogs are jumping up at your table, exclude them from the room and make sure that they know they are out of the system because of their behaviour.
Never feed them from the table, and if they persist in jumping up, remove them.
Under controlled circumstances, let them be present, but do not make eye contact and never say their names or acknowledge that they are there.
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A good way of stopping jumping up, whether your sitting down, or standing up is to *GENTLY* step on the toes of their back feet, it only takes a couple of times for them to get the message, dogs feet are particularly sensitive, as we all know ;)
Please note I really do mean GENTLY - more a tap really, than a step.