Rolo and Ronnie

[Mark_Reeve]

Hi, I'm a new member and would just like to ask a fairly simple question I suppose, we have recently picked up a puppy cocker spaniel and will be picking up a sprocker in a weeks time (from the same breeder and the two have been with each other for at least a week already so no problems there)

My question is about crate training, we put Rolo to bed and he is great for a couple of hours, then he will whimper...how do you tell if it is for attention or whether he has pooped in his bed? As I know you are supposed to ignore them whimpering which we did but then we saw he had pooped in his bed; are you supposed to leave them in there or do you check on them when they whimper and see if they are attention seeking or have messed their bed.

I know there will be a few answers and all will be appreciated.

Thanks. Mark


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[Londongirl]

Where were you advised to ignore whimpering? Puppies don't 'attention seek' as such. If they are making a noise, they need something. How old is Rolo? When they are very little they need to be taken out to pee and poop very often during the day and several times at night. The crate helps them practice holding it, but they can't hold it longer than their little bodies allow when they are babies. If he pooped I need his crate, that's why.

If he's whimpering because he is feeling lonely or frightened, you need to find a way to comfort him while helping him gradually learn to be comfortable when left. I didn't have this problem with Henry but I know others here did and can tell you what worked for them.

Finally, I've read many times that having two puppies is a bad idea. There is a thing called Litter Mate Syndrome which applies to any dogs close in age, not just litter mates. It's advised that two puppies should be raised separately to bond with their humans and not each other. Is this something you've looked into? Apologies if you have and I am telling you things you already know!

[Theo961]

Hello Mark and welcome to COL 

Pictures of new fur babies are a must!

Many people do deal with this differently but I can tell you what worked for me.

The first few nights I slept on the sofa near to Reese who was in an open crate with a pen. Which enabled me to comfort him but also learn the difference between him just wanting to be out to when he needed the toilet.  Reese did have a pad in his pen but I wanted to teach him to go outside if possible so when I heard the toilet cry I would take him out only praising him when he went and put him back in his crate without making a fuss. After a few nights i went back upstairs and he only really cried when he first went in so anything else I knew he needed the toilet. He did need to go a couple of times in the night but this did reduce as he got bigger.

I certainly don't envy you, one cocker puppy was more than enough for me to manage!    and I have had dogs all my life.

[rubybella]

Hi, your post concerns me as you seem to be a first time dog owner but are planning on having 2 puppies at same time, is this correct ? Has your breeder not warned you that it is not the best idea to have 2 puppies at the same time ? Have they told you that training 2 puppies at the same time is very hard ? Have they told you that 2 puppies can bond more with each other than the owner ? Have they told you that you will need to find the time to train and walk each puppy separately as well as together?

Sorry to be so negative, but I actually think breeders who sell 2 puppies to first time or inexperienced owners do not have their puppies best interests at heart!

Anyway, back to your question about whimpering in the crate. You need to ensure your puppy has toileted before you put them in crate at night. This may mean you are standing outside for half an hour waiting for it to happen. If they have pooed before bed they should manage a good few hours before needing to go again, if not then you may need to change the feeding schedule, either making last meal earlier or later.

[Jaysmumagain]

Hi Mark

What lovely names Rolo and Ronnie and welcome to Cockers Online

I am a little concerned about what you are taking on too, is your puppy a show cocker or working - while they still need just as much input workers do require a lot more exercise and while never worked with a working cocker am sure some of our members can advise of just how much more work is needed as they do hunt and are gunndogs etc. 

I think spockers and WCS as puppies and young dogs would be a challenge that not many who work with the breed would take on together. 

Please except this as concern and just my opinion.

I am delighted that you have a new cocker puppy  and wish you all the best.

As for the crate, in the early days toilet puppy as late as possible and I used to get up quiet early, it is a case of finding out there routine, as Rubella says it can be a waiting game, never forget my neighbour saying that I said go wee wees and go poo poo so sternly they felt like  going to the loo themselves.

[Mark_Reeve]

Hi all, thanks for the feedback, my history with dogs, is that I have grown up with springers, cockers and sprockers my entire life, all 27 years, my mum and dad always had a springer and at one point had a springer and and sprocker, my god parents have had 3 cockers for most of the time I can remember, and I helped to train the sprocker at classes and home etc so although I am not an expert I wouldn't say I am inexperienced either.  I can only really thank everyone for their concern and I know it going to be hard work but I am used to that.

Rolo is a 9 weeks old working cocker spaniel and he has been very good actually only really making noises at twice at most during the night. I was ignoring some of his whines to teach him that whining isn't the way to get what he wants I guess. Me and my family did it to my sprocker and it worked well ( I know every dog is different) his crate has a "ticking" friend to help soothe him but I guess I am expecting a bit much for such a young puppy. I have heard that, and the breeder mentioned something about it being better having one pup at a time but I would like them to have company like many of my other dogs. However I haven't heard of it being a serious as you have mentioned, shouldn't think it is too common by will definitely keep it in mind.



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[Helen]

It's called littermate syndrome, and it's more common than you think.  You should be prepared to train your puppies completely separately and allow them time by themselves so they don't overbond.

https://blog.betternaturedogtraining.com/2013/07/18/littermate-syndrome/

[Jaysmumagain]

Mark it seems you have been around these dogs, plus having age on your side - so might be having you handfuls and with your family you will cop ok.

Don't forget photos....we love those

[Mark_Reeve]

Thank you jaysmumagain, if I came across rude I didn't mean to and I do appreciate any advice! Photos will follow


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[Jaysmumagain]

didn't think it at all......take care

Jaysmum

[AlanT]

You just get up and take the puppy outside. You keep saying toilet and treat if you get one.

Expect to do this every few hours at first. But in a week or so leave it longer.

[bizzylizzy]

O'h to be young again! 
Don't really have anything to add, except to wish you the best of luck!!  It will be a challange but then challanges are there to be taken! Do keep us posted, look forward to pictures and remember where we are - there'll always be plenty of support and advice on here!

[Redked]

I'm sure it will be hard work but totally rewarding for all of you. I'm think there was a member on here who had 2 sister puppies and she was advised how hard it would be but they grew up together without problems. Can't remember the name or I would find an old thread for you, sorry. I wish you lots of luck and I'm sure it will turn out fine so long as you put the work in, which you are aware of and seem prepared for. All I can say is 1 wcs pup was way too much for me and I'd had twin girls (human)  but they were a doddle compared to Bonnie  It was worth it in the end, as yours will be.

As for the whining at night, with Bonnie, we ignored the initial crying when we first left the room but went to her crate and let her outside for her toileting if she cried again later. We did shifts (don't know if this is possible for you) where I stayed up with her until 1.00 am, let her out for final wee/poop then put her in her crate. Then my OH, who had gone to bed early, would get up at 5.00am to let her out while I slept later and we'd then swap so one of us was up late but didn't have to get up early as well. This worked really well as she only went 4 hrs during the night without a toilet break until she was older and able to hold it for a bit longer. IF she woke up whining in those 4 hours, one of us did pop down, took her straight outside to do her business but then put her straight back in her crate, no playing or cuddling  (oh we were so mean  ). It worked for us and for Bonnie as she never messed in her crate at all and she learned to settle at night very quickly.

Good luck and hope you get some photos of your pups soon 

[Mark_Reeve]

Thanks for the advice, I think me and my girlfriend will do a "turn"based approach when it comes to it. Rolo has been ok, been getting him out to go to the toilet when he whines (but with no fuss) usually about 2am then he goes back to sleep till 5/5:30 which is fine as I am usually up then.

This is Rolo.



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[Pearly]

Lovely looking boy