Author Topic: Muzzle to stop eating rubbish?  (Read 1273 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline James+Carly

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
Muzzle to stop eating rubbish?
« on: January 24, 2018, 10:25:14 PM »
We have always had the problem of Oscar being a hoover. In 2 years and three months of his life, we have been to the vet for vomiting around 7 or 8 times (all been due to eating something he shouldn't, 5 of which always seem to be 'out of hours visits').

His leave command in the house is great, out doors, not so much. His re-call is hit and miss.

I'm frightened one day he will eat something that will cause some serious harm. I'm all for trying a muzzle, other half isn't as he is concerned that others will think he is an aggressive dog (which is not the case). I'm not too fussed what people think and think our dogs safety comes first.

Does anyone else muzzle their dog to stop them eating stuff they shouldn't?

Offline Pearly

  • Donator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4235
  • Gender: Female
  • Pearl, Coral, Sally, Purdey and Kukri
Re: Muzzle to stop eating rubbish?
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2018, 10:29:24 PM »
No.  The other consideration is that he has no means of defending himself in a muzzle so while he may be a happy lad now, he may also become anxious or would up when out and approached by other dogs.

A good behaviourist will be able to help with his scavenging.  At the very least provide distraction and coping strategies.

I think, a long line would be preferable to a muzzle.

I’m sure it’s not the answer you were looking for and others may have a different view.

Jayne

Offline lynnemcneil

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 21
Muzzle to stop eating rubbish?
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2018, 11:49:24 PM »
Archie is always eating things off the ground but I’ve never considered muzzling him outside. I would agree with distraction to try and focus him on something else or take treats to exchange for the item he is eating. Archie knows I always have plenty of treats and I would say he is getting better, he has been known to now walk by items!! I’ve actually never noticed the serious amount of rubbish that is on the ground before having a puppy!! Perseverance!

Hopefully things improve as it can really upset their stomachs.

Good luck.

Lynne




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline Leo0106

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 334
  • Gender: Female
Re: Muzzle to stop eating rubbish?
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2018, 06:55:46 AM »
Hi,
We have a similar issue, luckily Leo's never needed a vet trip due to stuff he has eaten but he is forever trying to find stuff that he can grab.
Recently I've been practising his 'leave' command with loads of tempting items in the house. So I will use stuff out of the recycling bin, a stone etc that he would go for outside, drop it on the floor and practise the leave command.

This sort of seems to be working, it's early days but he is dedinately responding to 'leave' outside more than he ever did.
The only thing I can't stop him from picking up is food items!

I never leave for a walk unless I am armed with a decent amount of kibble incase he does pick up something so that when I tell him to drop he has something to reward with.

Offline bizzylizzy

  • Donator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4517
  • Gender: Female
  • 🙂 Jayne
Re: Muzzle to stop eating rubbish?
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2018, 07:46:34 AM »
Hi,
We have a similar issue, luckily Leo's never needed a vet trip due to stuff he has eaten but he is forever trying to find stuff that he can grab.
Recently I've been practising his 'leave' command with loads of tempting items in the house. So I will use stuff out of the recycling bin, a stone etc that he would go for outside, drop it on the floor and practise the leave command.

This sort of seems to be working, it's early days but he is dedinately responding to 'leave' outside more than he ever did.
The only thing I can't stop him from picking up is food items!

I never leave for a walk unless I am armed with a decent amount of kibble incase he does pick up something so that when I tell him to drop he has something to reward with.

I agree, we do the same and have stepped up the training over the last few weeks due to a couple  of dogs eating rat poison wrapped in ham which had been laid out by some evil person.  >:D.
A „leave“ command is always going to be easier than a „drop“ , at least it is with Humphrey, so I would also work on keeping Oscar within reasonable distance, if necessary going back to basics with a long line, so you have a better chance of controlling the situation. Have you tried recall with a whistle? (also works better for us).
I agree with Pearly re muzzle, I don‘t think it offers a long term solution and might just cause other problems in the long run.
Best of luck, Oscar‘s still young so you have a good chance of success with training.

P.s. - just remembered someone on here last year with the same problem and she used sausage plied with paprika pepper (or similar) as a last resort to train a leave command. I presume it would be classed as an aversive but her argument was, that if it was the only thing that worked and it cozld potentially save the dog‘s life, then it was justifiable and I think I tend to agree, - but only if nothing else worked!



Offline Mari

  • Site Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1082
  • Gender: Female
Re: Muzzle to stop eating rubbish?
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2018, 09:05:21 AM »
"Leave it" is easier said than done with a scavenger. I have one, and she is clever! And the problem is that every time they ignore us and eat off the ground they are self-rewarding and reinforcing the behaviour. So I don't think a muzzle is a bad idea for a period while training a better "leave it". Never used it myself, but I met others who did.

My experience is that I can use supertreats to keep her focus on me and direct her away from areas likely to have stuff she would eat. But if she allready found something yummy, my pocket full of livertreats are worthless. The joy of discovery is a reward that I just cannot compete with. So my solution has been to teach her not to go rummaging close to bushes and park benches.

I have to be proactive. Recall is everything! Also using treats and toys and games to train my dog to want to stay where I can see her and be attentive of me. That way recall has a better chance of succeeding if I spot something on the ground.

Remember to train impulse control and "leave it" in various locations. Not just at home.

But yeah I've considered muzzle before. Because for my dog to choose my chicken treat over some treasure she found seems impossible. So all I have managed to do is reduce the risk of her finding rubbish. And it does help, but it takes time.

Offline Londongirl

  • Donator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1458
Re: Muzzle to stop eating rubbish?
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2018, 09:29:39 AM »
The problem with a ‘leave’ it command is that it relies on you always being present to give the command, and manage your dog’s behaviour.

Another approach is to teach your dog to manage his behaviour himself in a way that doesn’t rely on you issuing a command. It takes some time to re-teach if you have already taught a leave, but it does work. I am currently teaching Henry using Susan Garrett’s It’s Yer Choice method. The principle is that the dog learns never to pick up anything off the floor (or ground) or counter or anywhere unless you give him permission. Permission is a hugely valuable reward to a dog and the idea is that the reward he gets for NOT picking things up becomes greater than the gratification of scavenging.

I think it’s going to take me several months to really get the training embedded in all environments. Currently Henry’s very good at it as a ‘trick’ - like when you put treats on your dog’s paws and he leaves them until you give permission to eat them. It starts with you having treats in your hand. When the dog moves forward to take them you close your hand. He might paw or lick at your closed hand, but you just wait him out. As soon as he stops, reward with a higher value treat from the other hand. Then open the closed hand, and repeat. Within a few repetitions the dog will look at your open hand of treats and not move. He’s got the idea. It’s similar to the way many people teach a leave, but the difference is you don’t say anything. You don’t pair the dog’s decision with a verbal cue from you, because you want him to be able to replicate the behaviour by making a decision, not following a command which relies on your presence.

You extend that to not stealing favourite things in the house, then the garden, then outdoors generally You control the item when training, so if it’s on the ground, you need to be close enough to cover it with your foot or hand if the dog makes the wrong choice. It’s a slow process, especially if your dog has a long history of the behaviour you don’t want, but the principle is that the endorphins released in the dog when he knows he’s made a good choice are also a huge reward, to the point where making the ‘right’ choice is a reward in itself. I’m currently working on recalling Henry past or away from high value items on the ground at home. The point of that isn’t the recall as such, but to reinforce the choice of not picking things up: not picking things up feels good because it’s associated with a history of high reward.

If you google Susan Garrett and It’s Yer Choice, you’ll find some YouTube videos. She explains it much more clearly! It’s part of her Recallers programme which is a paid online course, but she has a few free videos out there that illustrate her method.
Rachael (me) and Henry (him)


Offline bmthmark

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 384
  • Gender: Male
Re: Muzzle to stop eating rubbish?
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2018, 09:49:01 AM »
This has always been an issue with Jett  >:D, he is 14 months old now and I did hope he would not do this anymore.
Unfortuantely Jett continues to grab stuff off the floor. If i'm quick and notice the item before him, a 'leave' command works great. However even though i'm constantly looking out for dropped items, I do sometimes miss them and Jett will proceed to eat it.
I'm lucky in a way as he only goes for white items, I think this is because he loves tissues.

I'm hoping as he gets older he will realise they are not that good and stop doing this. I think he has improved as he used to pick up stones etc and now its just white things.

It is very frustrating though.

Offline bizzylizzy

  • Donator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4517
  • Gender: Female
  • 🙂 Jayne
Re: Muzzle to stop eating rubbish?
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2018, 10:00:49 AM »
That‘s basically the way weve trained are still training  it (particularly good if you have a dog like our guest labrador that snatches treats, nearly taking your hand in the process!). 

Offline phoenix

  • Donator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1400
Re: Muzzle to stop eating rubbish?
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2018, 07:27:39 PM »
My springer was the perfect pickpocket for food. Any child or elderly person absentmindedly wafting a biscuit in the air, would have it gently slipped away by a silky soft mouth.
Scavengers....I had a Labrador once, so  I say no more! Nowadays my concern would be xylitol, the sweetener used in chewing gum, that dogs delight in peeling off the pavement,   But it is increasing used in diet foods, or home baking.
I saw a cocker with a muzzle last week, perfectly happy. I use one sometimes for my terrier terror. Who cares if people stare?   

RIP Marti  the EPI springer age 12,  and beloved black cocker Bobby, 8 yrs old, too soon, from PLN.
Now owned by TInker, tiny hairy grey poodle/terrier rescue from Greece and Jack, local rescue,   scruffy ginger terrier mutt.

Offline Kimberley

  • Site Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 835
  • Gender: Female
Re: Muzzle to stop eating rubbish?
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2018, 06:46:01 PM »
I wouldn't muzzle, I think the leave command needs to be a lot firmer outside, keep installing in when your in your garden also I would keep on lead while out till the penny drops
Kim is owned by Coco, Breeze the Cockers and Charlie the (failed foster)Cavi