Thoughts On Jan Fennell

[Morticia]

Hi there
I've just seen Jan's new dvd I think she's marvellous.  Have just advised someone else to take a peek.  Anyone else have any thoughts, some of her theories have worked well for me after reading her books.

[Pammy]

There are many schools of thought on how effective Jan Fennel and other similar dog trainers are. Some of what she says clearly works and is not rocket science. For example, the best way to calm a lively dog down or settle a nervous dog is to simply ignore the behaviour. If they get no reaction, they generally stop.

Some of the other pack theory material though is very much questioned for example, eating out your dogs bowl before feeding them to show that you are pack leader.

It's like all things in life - it's what works for you and your dog. By all means check it out and if you think it's right for you give it a go - the main thing with all elements of dog training is patience and consistency. ie everyone must treat the dog/s the same or it simply won't work and you cannot make any allowances or you will out all your efforts back.

Have a look through using the search facility and you'll find loads of previous threads about JF et al.

hth


Oh and remember - it's a cocker you're dealing with - an essential bit of info'n

[Top Barks]

Morticia, Rank redution has been blasted from the water by the experts who first came up with the theory.
A lot of what she does is just simple learning theory using different forms of reward and punishment and nothing to do with your dog wanting to take over your household.
your dog won't get off the sofa? Is it dominating you or is it just not wanting to give up a comfortable position that the owner has probably encouraged him into in the first place?
Dogs need guidelines and ground rules to live in our houses or they will run riot,  but it is about developing control over behaviours that are unnacceptable and being consistent in what you ask of your dog rather than bbeing dominant over it.
Believe me I 've done the eating first bit and sitting in their bed bit and god do I realise what a waste of time that was.
For example My dogs don't go through the door before me but this is not down to my dogs recognising me as the alpha it is just because I have taught them what is acceptable behaviour to me and if they want to earn the reward of going outside then they must perform the behaviour that I am asking for first.
This is leadership and consitency yes, dominance no.
All I have done is used learning theory which pulls holes in the dominance model which was based on studying captive wolf packs and although the wolf and dog are distant relatives comparing their behaviour to that of the domestic dog is fundamentaly flawed.

Dogs are not wolves just the same as humans although closely related are not chimps or apes.
I'll get down off my high horse now and see what everyone else thinks.

Mark,Doug and Ollie

[jools]

Anyone who suggests you come into the house and ignore your dog needs a good kick up the ar*e IMO  

[Morticia]

Well I have to admit, I don't like her jumping all over people but if you apply all these theories my poor dog would have no specific personality it seems.

[Pammy]

Anyone who suggests you come into the house and ignore your dog needs a good kick up the ar*e IMO 

[snapback]171607[/snapback]

I'm sorry Jools but you are wrong. If your dog is over-exuberant then ignoring them for just a couple of minutes can make the world of difference and helps to keep them calmer. It's only for a couple of minutes until they've stopped bouncing off the walls. It helps stop them jumping up at you and others. It's along the NILIF line - be calm and controlled and you get a fuss. Be too giddy and you won't. It's that simple.

If you're lucky enough to have a dog that doesn't go ape when you walk in then fine you don't even have to think about it - but please don't assume that this technique deserves the kind of response you have given. Don't forget, managing a dog the size of a cocker is easier than fending off something much bigger too.

[Annette]

I echo Pam on this one. Buddy has been a nightmare at the jumping up. Now seems to be getting a bit better since we have made re-entry a much more low key affair.

It's nothing to do with ignoring him, as such. More just delaying the greeting until he is calmer. We will all be much happier for it.

But on the whole, I'm not convinced of the pack theory stuff.

[Cob-Web]

Anyone who suggests you come into the house and ignore your dog needs a good kick up the ar*e IMO 

[snapback]171607[/snapback]

You'll be round my house soon, then?   If you have another effective way of reducing over-exhuberance, then please share it with us - ignoring a dog until it calms down is the best way I know but I'm always willing to try something new  

I agree with Pammy, but then my pro-NILIF stance is fairly well established now, I think  ::   As Pammy says, cockers are not likely to cause permanant damage when they jump - I have been researching Leonbergers as a breed recently; they have similar personalities to cockers - but can you imagine a 100lb *cocker greeting* when you get in?      

I'm not a Jan Fennell fan tbh: to me it seems a lot of "her" theories have been practiced for years; and many of them have now been superceded through a better understanding of dog behaviour  ::

[Top Barks]

I echo Pam on this one. Buddy has been a nightmare at the jumping up. Now seems to be getting a bit better since we have made re-entry a much more low key affair.

It's nothing to do with ignoring him, as such. More just delaying the greeting until he is calmer. We will all be much happier for it.

But on the whole, I'm not convinced of the pack theory stuff.

[snapback]171615[/snapback]

Here here to you and Pammy and as far as rank reduction goes forget it.

[suki1964]

Anyone who suggests you come into the house and ignore your dog needs a good kick up the ar*e IMO 

[snapback]171607[/snapback]

Blimey Im due a good kicking - not only does Alfie get ignored when we come in the house but he also gets ignored if hes bouncing off the walls when we are getting organised to go walkies

[Penel]

Hmm Jan Fennell - no thanks  

[jools]

Jan Fennel suggests that we should all ignore our dogs when we they come to greet us.....over exhuberant or not.

I am probably just a complete nutter....but I think the best part about being owned by my two is the huge welcome / waggy bums / toys or shoes in mouth we get when we get home. I LOVE IT!!!!! Oh, and if anyone who comes to my house doesn't love it then they are not friends of mine  

I am not a fan of Ms Fennel....I could have picked anouther 10 or 12 things I don't like about her "listening"

I do use NILIF....probably wrongly having read the other posts.

[Morticia]

Well thats a mix of opinions, I love her wecoming us home but when she knocks you off your feet its a bit much. Thank you all for differing opinions though, each to their own eh.

[MrsMac]

(Whispers) Whats NILIF???

[Morticia]

Mrs Mac I have no idea either!