A daft BARF question

[Petra]

*takes deep breath* I am planning on changing Dill over to Barf.... there, I have said it..... that was not so painful....

Am not convinced about the nature diet, his poos sometimes have this strange mucus sleeve round them.   His coat is dull and his breath pongs...(have checked his lip folds re the latter and they are fine)

I have been reading extensively on the subject, and think I am going to give it a go....
I like the type of diet that ClaireP4 feeds Bella, and would like to follow something similar.   
Due to a lack of decent butchers near us have decided to use the AMP and or Natures Menu frozen meats.   Will make up raw whizzed up veg portions and freeze.

Just have a few questions (sorry, I know this has been done to death recently...)

1.   If I supplement Omega 3,6,9, garlic, vit E and Kelp, do I also need to use keepers mix or will there be an overlap of supplements?

2.   If I want to add some nuts to his diet, which nuts do I use - which are best, and which are best to avoid?

2.   'Due to a lack of decent butcher locally, Dills bone intake will come from the grind bone in his mince, and chicken wings.   Is this sufficient from a dietary point of view??   What about from a teeth cleaning point of view??

Sorry to create yet another Raw thread, but have been reading so much about this in the past week that my head is starting to spin, so for my own sanity I decided just to ask these questions instead of keep searching for the answers...

[Penel]

1.   If I supplement Omega 3,6,9, garlic, vit E and Kelp, do I also need to use keepers mix or will there be an overlap of supplements?

crikey no !!!  that will be more than sufficient, in fact at first I wouldn't add any of the supplements - just get him used to the basic foods first !

2.   If I want to add some nuts to his diet, which nuts do I use - which are best, and which are best to avoid?

why would you want to add nuts to his diet ?  you are already planning on supplementing with essential fatty acids.

2.   'Due to a lack of decent butcher locally, Dills bone intake will come from the grind bone in his mince, and chicken wings.   Is this sufficient from a dietary point of view??   What about from a teeth cleaning point of view??

yes sufficient from a dietary point of view.  And yes I have recently had the discussion about the teeth cleaning thing - supposedly it's as much to do with the enzymes left in the mouth after eating as it is to do with the chewing - as to whether the teeth stay clean or not.

[Petra]

Penel, thank you - I figured the nuts would not be needed if doing the omegas, but will not supplement anything to start, and get him used to it....

Am sure will have heaps more questions as I get into it, but will start with the easy stuff - and see how he gets on....

Thanks for your help, not only this post, but everybody's previous info on the subject.

[Annette]

I am just beginning to think I might, just might, go this route too. I'm not sure I'm organised enough these days, but I do have an idea that it would benefit Buddy. I have a few reservations though.

When he goes to stay with our Guardian Angel, what sort of meals could I provide which would still be BARF but also easy and convenient for her to deal with?

Buddy pongs at the moment. For a long time I thought it was his ears, then his lip folds, and now, despite a lot of extra attention he still pongs. I am thinking of taking him to the vets but am impressed by all the stories of dogs who have had none of these problems since changing to BARF.

I need to re-read the recent threads, and possibly buy one of the recommended books.

All the best Petra. Do start a new BARF thread about your progress, I have found Claire's very informative and interesting.

[miche]

I sometimes find it hard to get decent bones from the butcher to be honest, but I do feed them breast of lamb and pork ribs (not everyone is comfortable with pork but mine are fine on it) both obviously have bone in and is available at the supermarket.

I also feed mine AMP, chicken wings, raw eggs, heart (butcher), and liver (supermarket if not been to butcher) and the odd whole mackerel or sardine.  I don't feel mine need any supplements, they are doing great on just that, a couple of times a week I give them veg and that's it, they have lovely firm poo's and shiny coats, no wind and their weight is consistant.

Good luck Petra

[ClareB]

I'm also thinking of putting Milo on a BARF diet.  We're going on holiday at the end of the month tho, so will wait until I'm back when I can start properly.  A friend's looking after Milo while we're away and I think a year old Cocker is quite enough to handle, without dealing with a BARF diet as well!     Good luck with it, Petra, and keep us posted! 

[LesleyW]

do you use olive oil or cod liver oil at all?  I'm sure when i went to a workshop on this, my vet suggested adding a small amount of olive oil to the veg mix - he also added a few almonds IIRC?
But he didn't add any (artificial) supplements, instead suggested alfafa or kelp......

[Penel]

I do add Cod Liver Oil every once in a while, during the winter when there is less sunlight and therefore less Vitamin D.
I give two of my dogs a joint supplement anyway (Syn-Flex) so there is no requirement for CLO as a joint supplement.
Olive oil could well give diarrhoea if you give too much - it's what I would give mine if they were a bit constipated.
Don't know bout almonds - not exactly something that dogs would naturally eat are they !!!
You have to remember you are trying to replicate what a dog would naturally eat - and I know lots of people don't want to face this but - a whole fresh rabbit would be a dog's natural meal.  So you have meat, bone, fibre (from the fur), essential fatty acids (from the brain and eyes), and a tiny veg content from the stomach (this would be mainly green, not grain).

Very pleased to hear so many COL'ers are becoming interested in feeding a natural raw diet 

[Cob-Web]

I began by supplementing with Cod Liver Oil - but on Penels suggestion, added a Omega 3/6/9 supplement instead I don't give it every day - sometimes I give garlic - or nuts  Depending on what veg I puree - I might add some oil to it, but only to moisturise it, not as a supplement, as such 

Through trial and error, I discovered that crushing up mixed, broken nuts (from Holland and Barratt) with the end of a rolling pin was best for Molo's digestion - I mix a dessertspoonful in with his mince twice or three times a week - more for variation that anything else, really

I send Molo to kennels with Burns Complete; and he gets either Burns meal or a BARF meal (about 50:50 ratio) at home  - depending on how good a haul I get at the butchers  As I can't guarantee my BARF sources, I wanted to make sure he will always eat Burns - it also gives me confidence that even if my diet balancing is slightly out - he will get everything he needs from his Burns meals 

I would happily feed Molo "natural" rabbits and such (there is no shortage of them from local farmers and other sportmen for a few pence ) - but he won't eat them like that  I get skinned, portioned rabbit from the butcher, which he still turns his nose up at until I cleaver into pieces for him 

[Michele]

Another (very) recent convertee here, glad you've asked these questions Petra because like you I've been using the search facility but end up going round in circles (or get distracted by another thread  )

One thing I have noticed in the 2 weeks I've been feeding this way - their poo doesn't smell when I clear up, which with 3 of them is straight away 

[clairep4]

Nice to hear more people are thinking of making the switch, it's been so beneficial to Bella.

Petra I'd go with Penel's advice and just get him used to the food to start with, I found with Bella she was sick a few times at the start with chicken wings and her first couple of offal meals and it took me about 4 or 5 months of trial and error to work out what was best for her, how much bone, how to get the right balance etc. Once you get there it's like the penny drops and you can't understand why you were so stressed out at the start. 

The only supplements Bella gets are Keeper's Mix (prob every other day) and then either Salmon Oil or evening primrose oil. In her veggie pulp mix she gets parsley and garlic.

She has chicken bones minced up but then gets breast of lamb ribs twice a week for tooth cleaning, and recreational bones when I can get hold of decent ones.

Re. feeding them when away from home, we use Naturediet as she's fine on that for a couple of days.

Really good luck with it, I'm sure you'll notice a difference, I've had alot of comments about how great Bella is looking these days but the best thing for us has been no trips to the vet for her as she's not had a single ear or eye infection since the switch (8 months now) - pretty good going for a dog who last year was in the vet's about once a fortnight with one thing or another. 

[sarahp]

I've never used lamb breast before until the other day.  One question - is it naturally quite fatty or did I just get a dodgy one from my local butcher?  I have used pork ribs for ages and never noticed this - any ideas those that use lamb???

[bluegirl]

You need a certain amount of fat in the diet, so it's ok to use lamb or other fatty meats, just not too much.
The oil's although benefical also contain fat so if your dog is overweight make sure you choose one that is going to do another job aswell, ie flaxseed (omega 3) or CLO (vit A,D) or Omega 3,6,9 in a combination of oils. I have also used virgin olive oil, but I didn't notice any diarrhoea.

[Penel]

I feed lamb breast to the skinny lurchers who are both really skinny at the moment - too much running  fat makes them put on weight, not carbs.

[sarahp]

What other part of lamb can I feed Dill?  I know that sounds like a daft question but in a bid to firm up his poop I would like quite a high bone content and maybe a little less fat than on the breast - I think it made him a bit dodgy the other night    I an not sure about feeding chops to him as I'm not sure they are suitable.  So what part would be good??  HELP!!!!!!!!!!