Help please - hes biten a friend

[julsngraham]

oh dear I dont know where to start I am so upset..

Paddy is a darling 99% of the time and I have noticed he has become more and more possesive of his chews - which we stopped giving him for this reason.  He does growl from time to time over his food/chews/treats and we have been trying to coax it out of him by doing all the things suggested like feeding his little bits at a time in his bowl (he does not seem that bothered for his food) I make him sit and wait for it whilst its on the floor and he obediently waits until he is commanded to eat. 

He is 1 tomorrow..

Well yesterday I gave him a rawhide chew in the garden as he kept running off with my tools! and it kept him quiet.. 

Later on in the evening my friend came round - who he has stayed with before and he had his chew inside.  He was fine for a good hour and a half - (she always pays him a lot of attention) he was taking the chew to her and running off - he likes to be chased - and he didn;t seem all that bothered for it.  He was sitting beside her getting cuddles and he was licking her face and everything


He was getting tired then and went over to her with chew in mouth and she was kissing his head and he didnt appear to be guarding it - just looked sleepy..  he went off to sleep then and came and sit beside me chew a few inches away..  My friend went over about 10 mins later to kiss him whilst sleeping and he growled at her (he wasjust lying on the floor) and the second time he growled she sat up and he went for her and bit her hand...  It was not a touch bite - she said he did sink his teeth in but never punctured the skin

My friend is very used to dogs and we were both so shocked I did nothing.. My instinct would have been to smack him really hard but I have been readnig thats the wrong thing to do - ! I have no idea what I should have done.

He has always shown some kind of growly behaviour towards this friend that he doesnt do to me or my hubby.. The last time he had one of those rawhide treats was at my friends house and he was growling everytime someone went near him - he went to go for her daughter - hes been fine ever since

Help
So I need help with a couple of things..

What should I have done when he did that?
What do I do next?
Why is he showing possesion agression with this friend? or is it just bad luck she has been the brunt of it.
If he is inconsistent - is this going to be a problem?


There are no dog specialists in my area as I am so far north
I was so upset last night I spent most of it crying - these friends are my extended family and I now I feel he cannot be trusted.  I read all my doggy books but they didnt tell me anything particular..

HELP

[Brimbeck(Dyllan)]

Someone with more experience will come along soon I'm sure.
I tell my kids to not approach my dogs when they have food or are asleep.
Raw hide chews are a problem in our house as my dogs argue over them so I only give them when they are on their own as one will be out training or agility.

I call my dogs when they are sleepy rather than bend down to them just to be sure.

[Katina]

Rule no 1 with dogs, never approach a sleeping dog. He felt threatened by the situation. I never go over to my dogs, I make them come to me.
Because your friend gives so much attention to Paddy, he thinks he is superior to this friend.

So maybe your friend needs to change the way she acts around Paddy too  .

And no, I do not think that biting is acceptable, but they are dogs and they do not work like humans. Something totally natural for humans (etc kissing) might actually be interpreted as a threat by the dog.

[Helen]

to be perfectly frank, I think Paddy is giving you ample warning that he's not happy with someones behaviour....in the instances below I would do the following:

don't give him rawhide treats when you have friends over or at other peoples houses (give it to him at home and don't try and play games or take it off him, if he has a crate, let him have his treats there)
don't ignore his warnings (his growl is a clear indication he's not happy and will take things further)
never disturb a dog while he's sleeping (especially if he has a prized possession with him)
don't smack him cos he's giving you ample warning signs

 'mine' by Jean Donaldson is a great book

oh, and I agree with Katina that your friend may be smothering Paddy a bit much - she should ignore him a bit more and let him come to her for attention

[julsngraham]

Thanks for your comments..  I can go over to him no bother when he is sleeping..

How do I restore her faith in Paddy - as she helps look after him when I am away and I am worried she might say no next time, she said she is happy to do any training with him necesasary..

Do you think it might be a bit of adolescence coming through

I always tell the children and my nephew not to put their face in his..  (as I grew up with a Jack Russel!!!) or take toys from him...

[silkstocking]

 I do think going over to kiss a sleeping dog is totally unnecessary tbh I know they look cute and lovely and all you really want to do is snuggle in to them, but I have to say, if I was just drifting off into a sleep and someone woke me up with a kiss, I might be tempted to snap at them a bit!!!

I agree with what the others so far have said, so I can't say any more than that really.

Would he have bitten if he'd beenleft alone that night when he was tired................................possibly not

[julsngraham]

No he wouldnt have bitten if she never went over but........  Thats why we were both so shocked.   

[julsngraham]

So is there nothing I can do - training wise ? 

I am so upset as I really didn;t want a dog that people needed to be careful round

Is it something he might grow out of?

Although I will def try all the above things..

[Cob-Web]

I agree with everything that has been said already - I think you are expecting to much of Paddy if you demand that he tolerates this kind of disturbance and attention 

Thanks for your comments..  I can go over to him no bother when he is sleeping..

Just because you can, doesn't mean that you should - please lower your expections of him and learn from this experience- otherwise this will not be an isolated incident

So is there nothing I can do - training wise ? 

I am so upset as I really didn;t want a dog that people needed to be careful round

You can't stop a dog being a dog.......why would you want to ? 

[silkstocking]

No he wouldnt have bitten if she never went over but........  Thats why we were both so shocked.   

I think that says it all then doesn't it. Okay so Paddy  shocked you by biting, but, he did warn that he wanted to be left alone by growling, same as my husband knows to leave me alone if I start ranting, else he might bet bitten!! But you know what I am trying to say, sometimes we have to listen to the warnings.

He could just be thinking "for goodness sake will you please leave me alone" but his only way to get that across is my giving a warning and when the warning isn't listened to by taking his next course of action which was to bite.

I'm guessing your friend is really upset that she was bitten, well shocked, but maybe it would help her to see that really if she had left Paddy alone, then she wouldn't have been bitten I imagine Paddy probably loves your friend, but he just needed some space

So is there nothing I can do - training wise ? 

I am so upset as I really didn;t want a dog that people needed to be careful round

Is it something he might grow out of?

Although I will def try all the above things..

I honestly think if you listen to him, and if he growls, you have to listen to that growl, which in that situation meant "please leave me alone" and leave him alone until he comes over to you, or your friends etc.

He did give you warning he didn't just snap out of the blue if you see what I mean.

Maybe if you have people round and you see it is becoming too much for him, he could have some quiet time in a space of his own, when we have visitors, we have the dogs in with us for a while and then we put them into the kitchen, we have a baby gate, in their case it's because visitors make them mega excited and they find it hard to settle, because they want to give everyone love in the form of licks etc but not everyone likes that.

[Tracy S]

I know you probably feel very upset at the moment but I wouldn't feel too worried about Paddy's future.

I think Louie would have done exactly the same under the circumstances you've described and he is a very placid dog, it's the only way they can let you know how they're feeling.

If he had bitten without warning or provocation, I would feel differently, but I think he just wanted some space

[LurcherGirl]

How would you react if someone poked you suddenly at 3 am whilst you are fast asleep? Would you be very happy about it? Would you not tell them to not do that again? And what would you do if they kept waking you like that? I am sure you wouldn't like it either!

I think you seem to have two problems:

1. You expect way too much from your dog. He is giving you warnings, which are ignored! Why do we expect from dogs that they are always happy go lucky and are never allowed to say "Back off, I don't like it"? We would never expect the same from people, we would always respect them and be polite and accept it when they say "no". We should do the same with our dogs.
We also have the rule in our house not to approach the dogs when they are sleeping... in fact, I always tell people to let the dogs come to them, not approach or even crowd them! To me, that just good manners and accepting a dog's need for personal space, just like I accept other people's personal space.
So I think you need to change the way you look at your dog. Be glad that your dog communicates the way he does and listen to him! He can't talk to you like we can, so he has to use other noises, e.g. growling! Don't ignore it, treat him like what he is (a dog, a living creature with feelings and opinions about things), not what you would like him to be (a super thing that never ever is unhappy about anything that is done to him...).    Your friend has to learn to do the same thing! 

2. Food guarding. Don't give him any chews when other people are around. It's just not worth the hassle. And start working on reducing the food guarding as mentioned by other posters.

One of our dogs once snapped at a friend (though he didn't make contact). However, she crowded him without realising it at first. She came in to dog sit our four boys, Flash didn't get up from the sofa, which is unusual as he normally greets people that come through the door. My friend went up to him and went to give him a cuddle and Flash snapped at her. He had no intention of hurting her as he purposly turned his head so he missed her face... But my friend realised that it was her fault, she should not have gone up to Flash, but let him come to her! It wasn't Flash's fault! He went through a very stressful period at the time with allergies rearing their ugly head and he wasn't feeling well; the only way to communicate to my friend to leave him alone was under the circumstances to snap at her (as he couldn't back off laying on the sofa) as she didn't recognise the fact that he didn't get up from the sofa as telling her "I am not feeling well, please leave me alone and I'll come to you when I am ready". Flash has never done it since, and I am not worried about it as I know he made sure that my friend wasn't hurt, but simply warned. --- Exactely what I would expect from my dogs!

Vera

[julsngraham]

Thanks v much - yeah I am getting the picture now..  I would have rathered he had bitten me tho!!!   Hes never even tried to bite me.!

I dont tend to ignore his warnings - personally

We have been trying lots of ways to play with him so he feels secure with his posessions when other people are around.

I'll just have to make everyone aware to leave him alone ....

[Marko]

I'm sure you are worried about this situation but I am positive you can get through it.
Harvey (once) growled at me when I went to take his first rawhide bone from him - hewas obviously so chuffed about getting something so tasty that he wanted to protect it.
I took him into the kitchen, shouted "no!" and left him there for 5 minutes. When he came out I ignored him for another 5 minutes then got him to come to me for cuddles.
While I was praising him, I gave him the bone back.
I then got a bit chicken and swapped it for the bone and praised him again.
I gave him the bone back again and since then he has never done that (in the house anyway - see my Possessive Aggression post!!).

I have found out from my other post about the warning thing and pestering them when they are sleeping and I do believe that if the dog warns you he is not happy then you should leave him well alone.
I know they look cuddly and cute when they are sleeping but it is important they feel secure and not threatened by humans towering over them when they are tired.

I now have quite a few rawhides about and have been using the swap method since the other day with Harvey and he is responding really well.

I think because I have a few have chewed rawhides about it sort of devalues it and he doesn't bother if you take it from him (well tell him to drop or swap).

I think the age thing might be a contributing factor cos Harvey is 10 months and seems to be testing us again with his sock stealing tricks.

Good luck and hopefully if your friend is an animal lover, she will understand what has happened and be happy to look after Paddy.

[cdpops]

Hello
I have nothing to add training wise, I just wanted to say I know how much a shock it is when your dog bites, I know I sat there and analysed and spent ages if onlying! But you have to treat it as an isolated incident, learn from it and move on. The other thing not to do is over react. I know when Charlie was biting, anyone who came any where near him I would ask to stay away, he sort of lost his confidence with people a bit and I definitely added to this and made things worse for him. I hope you have not lost your faith in Paddy he was only doing what comes naturally.
Claire