not sure what to do

[Elisa]

I agree with Caroline re the castration.  I would get advice before you consider castration.  It isn't always the be all and end all, and can occasionally make some problems worse.

Maybe you could use the money that you would have paid for his castration and have a behaviourist come out?

It is hard not to compare dogs, but each dog has it's own personality and can be very different.  My two are complete opposites and they are from the same lines.  Bailey is 5 and is still very unpredictable with recall, but I have never had a problem with Harvey (18 months).  He never goes more than 10 feet away from me.

You and your OH have to work on this together.  You have to be supportive of each other's views and be prepared to compromise on things that don't have a black and white answer.  Max is young and is behaving like a hooligan, most of them do at that age.  He isn't any different from most other dogs.  He will be feeling the tension from both of you and this will be making him worse.

[Ben's mum]

I'm really sorry that you are going through such a tough time and I do know what its like.  when Ben was a pup my husband would shout at me becasue Ben was so naughty.  I was taking Ben to training classess but as a novice owner it was not easy.  i used to dread Ben being bad (actually he was just being a pup!) becasue I knew it would start a row he used to say things like 'I though you were s upposed to be training him!'   I used to distract Ben with food all the time to keep him quiet so he wouldn't annoy OH.

It did get to crisis point where we had to sit down and work things out - i loved Ben and OH and wanted both, but couldn't cope with being the peace maker and in the middle.  Ben was and still is a rat bag a lot of the time,    but I had to get OH to see it wasn't his fault he was just a pup, and us shouting and getting stressed over it was making him worse not better. 

My OH comes from the sort of family where dogs lie quietly in the corner and only come out when called.  He also has a dad who used to hit the dogs if they were bad, and expected them to be good all the time but didn't want to put any effort into trainig.  He used to say no dog of mine will do ....whatever 

does your OH have any influences like this - what does he expect from Max
I spent ages drip feeding ideas about how i thought a dog should be treated until OH imagined it had all been his idea! It wasn't easy but they adore each other now. (Actually OH always did adore Ben, just couldn't cope with a demanding noisy dog).

i really wish you well and agree with others ideas of using a behaviourist.  We had one out when Ben was small and it helped us decide together what we were going to do to tackle the problem.  Yes it was a struggle to afford her but worth every peny.

Hope things turn out ok for you all.

Bens mum

[ludo]

so sorry to hear your problems  - I agree with others on here - it would be a good idea to ask a behaviourist to help - perhaps you could go as a couple to learn what steps you need to take together so your dog responds to both of you so that over the coming months things should get better 

[PennyB]

ive tried lots of different training with max, clicker training, treat training and so on, none of these i used on ellie, but he just does his own thing more often than not

Do you train him separately as well and what about as I suggested earlier may be your OH taking him out separately sometimes as well

The young cocker boys I see out and about have been out and out hooligans --- part of being a teenager I guess, going through the lager lout phase. I was lucky because Ruby was so bossy with Wilf she's often kept him in line

[xlisax]

i just want to make one thing crystal clear we do not beat our dogs in anyway 

alan cannot train max he has no time to take him out on a regular basis, i am the one who does the walks and as for taking them out together that is a bit difficult as i work full time and like to take them on very long walks during the day, (i work full time nights) i dont have the time or the energy to take them on seperate very long walks if you get my meaning


dont get me wrong i am not going to give up easily on this, and the hubby is more likely to be the one to go than max

ive taken the comments about castration very seriously and have now decided not to get him done if you think im doing the wrong thing

also id like some ppls tips on the best way to go about the training

[bev6951]

i just want to make one thing crystal clear we do not beat our dogs in anyway 

alan cannot train max he has no time to take him out on a regular basis, i am the one who does the walks and as for taking them out together that is a bit difficult as i work full time and like to take them on very long walks during the day, (i work full time nights) i dont have the time or the energy to take them on seperate very long walks if you get my meaning


dont get me wrong i am not going to give up easily on this, and the hubby is more likely to be the one to go than max

I really dont think anyone who has replied to you thinks you do anything at all bad to your dogs hon, do you have anyone around you to talk to about this as from my own personal perspective when I went through this it did help to talk to my friend who was able to see things clearly and offer good advice.
I did take alfie to a one to one session with a trainer and it was £10 for an hours session and she was able to help me pick out the most important things to work on with Alfie. It was a really good start. If you want to pm me I am happy for you to, although I may not be much help on the training thing as each dog is different and I can only help with what I know from alfie experience. 

[xlisax]

so how many times a week do you think we would need to go to one to one training

i could maybe afford it if it was once a week or something

[phoenix]

I agree with the others re castration so young . whilst he has issues. My vet said not to have Bobby done  as he is shy and wary of strangers despite being extrovert with close friends and dogs. My other dog is angelic in comparison.
OH needs to see the good side of him, and become more influential with him......using modern methods as you have done. HE  ought to go to training classes with Max, perhaps without you for Max to focus on.
Don't give up, Max is so young, and going through his Kevin the teenager phase. By 18 months he may have matured into superdog!
Keep posting on progress.

[Elisa]

so how many times a week do you think we would need to go to one to one training

i could maybe afford it if it was once a week or something

You would probably only need to see a behaviourist once.  They would come out and talk to you about Max, assess him, give you some advice re management and training and then send you out a follow up plan.

None of us are experienced enough to advise on castration with regards to Max personally.  It would be best to speak to a qualified behaviourist about it, and then to decide what to do on his/her advice. 

Make sure the behaviourist is suitably qualified.  Caroline gave you the link for the APBC website earlier in the thread.

Good luck. 

[bev6951]

so how many times a week do you think we would need to go to one to one training

i could maybe afford it if it was once a week or something

well i went once a week on a monday night. we would talk and observe and then I would go home and work with alfie together. It did help alot. The thing was the damage had been done with the relationship with him and my OH, like I said he was 3 when he left me and I fought for so long but my OH had basically given up on him  
Try not to let this happen. Appeal to you hubby and remind him of the decision you both made to get max and I really agree with phoenix and think it should be he and max that do the training as it will be a vicious circle in the end otherwise, max will be picking up on the negative feelings from your OH and wont be responsive to the training unless its worked with them both. It seems like it is never gonna end but he is still a puppy and there will be a light at the end of the tunnel with the help of some good advice/ training.
I took alfie to one to one at the same place as the boarding kennels I use, ask for peoples referals in the vets, pet stores and ring round (look at yell.com) visit the places and if you think they sound good with good techniques go.

[Elisa]

I think we might be confusing you re trainers and behaviourists 

You will need to decide which you think would be most suitable for Max.  Training classes are great for general obedience and yours and your OH's bond with Max.  Alot of the time, it is the owners that are guided in how to train their dogs for general commands.

One-to-One training, is just that - personal sessions with a trainer rather than a class.

Behaviourists deal with the reasons why a dog is displaying certain behaviour/behaviours and giving you the information and techniques to overcome or manage them.

Just to confuse you even more, some trainers have a special interest in dog behaviour.

I hope that is right, if not, I'm sure someone will come along a correct me 

[bev6951]

I think we might be confusing you re trainers and behaviourists 

You will need to decide which you think would be most suitable for Max.  Training classes are great for general obedience and yours and your OH's bond with Max.  Alot of the time, it is the owners that are guided in how to train their dogs for general commands.

One-to-One training, is just that - personal sessions with a trainer rather than a class.

Behaviourists deal with the reasons why a dog is displaying certain behaviour/behaviours and giving you the information and techniques to overcome or manage them.

Just to confuse you even more, some trainers have a special interest in dog behaviour.

I hope that is right, if not, I'm sure someone will come along a correct me 

Yes you're right I think! my dog trainer also had some experience in dog behaviour and was invaluable. If you tried a trainer with some knowledge they could assist you or reccommend you to a behaviourist, until you see either you might not be able to recognise  what you really need.

[Cob-Web]

i am the one who does the walks and as for taking them out together that is a bit difficult as i work full time and like to take them on very long walks during the day, (i work full time nights) i dont have the time or the energy to take them on seperate very long walks if you get my meaning

Part of the commitment of two dogs is being able to give them one-to-one attention; and I think you may have to put your preferences to one side while you address the problems you are experiencing    I think you will be surprised at the differences you see in your dogs if you exchange your daily long walk with two of them for two shorter walks, one for each dog, two or three times a week......  

(Bonnee in particular, is a totally different dog when she is on her own  )

[xlisax]

i am the one who does the walks and as for taking them out together that is a bit difficult as i work full time and like to take them on very long walks during the day, (i work full time nights) i dont have the time or the energy to take them on seperate very long walks if you get my meaning

Part of the commitment of two dogs is being able to give them one-to-one attention; and I think you may have to put your preferences to one side while you address the problems you are experiencing    I think you will be surprised at the differences you see in your dogs if you exchange your daily long walk with two of them for two shorter walks, one for each dog, two or three times a week......  

(Bonnee in particular, is a totally different dog when she is on her own  )

max gets 99 % attention when we are out ellie strolls along at her lesuire without a lead or anything so i am working with max the whole time im out

[Aearoniel]

Yes but is Max working with you? With Ellie being there he has his attention split between you and her even if it isn't obvious she is an extra distraction for him to cope with.