When will Bailey be Like the other dogs at Training Class if ever ?

[mel1961red]

Hi

More advice needed Bailey is 8 months and I have been taking him to Puppy classes since 5 months old we are now in with the older dogs and to be honest I'm wondering whether a cocker is trainable, the others (all be it older) sit stay go down when told etc etc and Bailey does nothing hes told or if he does its cos he wants to and gets so bored, hes really naughty to be honest as I know he can do it all but gets bored and wants to play, what I have learnt with Cocker's is that although they are greedy for food , if they are distracted by anything else then food comes 2nd or depends what mood they are in as to how they act. What upsetting is that I thought he would be so loyal and come back to me when called which he does 85% of the time  but if he gets in one of his moods then he would go off for miles and not worry about me, all the other dogs seem so intent on pleasing their owners but not Bailey as I said depends on his mood. Is this Normal for a Cocker? Should I give up the classes cos they get bored too quick? Are they intrainable after all you don't see many Cocker's in a heel to music class or an obedience display please help !!!

[spanielcrazy]

Don't despair! He is right now in adolescence, so will have the attention span of cabbage  Believe it or not though, his training is somewhere in the back of his mind and it will pay off later.

I don't know how your classes are structured; I used to take my hooligans to an advanced class where it was pretty loose and most of the people more experienced. So if I felt I'd lost my dogs attention I could do a really snappy heel routine in another part of the room, or just do a time out.

If he's getting bored, it may be time to move on to a more advanced level or start agility or something that will hold his attention more. But don't stop training! It is getting through the fog, hard as that is to believe right now. 

(and never compare your dog to others, it's apples and oranges )

[Mudmagnets]

Hi

More advice needed Bailey is 8 months and I have been taking him to Puppy classes since 5 months old we are now in with the older dogs and to be honest I'm wondering whether a cocker is trainable, the others (all be it older) sit stay go down when told etc etc and Bailey does nothing hes told or if he does its cos he wants to and gets so bored, hes really naughty to be honest as I know he can do it all but gets bored and wants to play, what I have learnt with Cocker's is that although they are greedy for food , if they are distracted by anything else then food comes 2nd or depends what mood they are in as to how they act. What upsetting is that I thought he would be so loyal and come back to me when called which he does 85% of the time  but if he gets in one of his moods then he would go off for miles and not worry about me, all the other dogs seem so intent on pleasing their owners but not Bailey as I said depends on his mood. Is this Normal for a Cocker? Should I give up the classes cos they get bored too quick? Are they intrainable after all you don't see many Cocker's in a heel to music class or an obedience display please help !!!

I do think it varies with the dog (not just cockers tho) and also the training class you attend - if there are too many in the group and the dogs (specially pups) spend too much time sitting around they do get bored as do the owners.  Would it be possible to find another training class - perhaps with lower numbers so there is not so much hanging about for you or him.

I don't feel they are untrainable - you just have to find what clicks for them. I found with both mine that if food was involved during training they seemed to concentrate more on the food than what I was saying - but I always carry biscuits when we are out to get them back on their leads.

[Karma]

Cockers are certainly not untrainable.
You just have to find the right motivation.  

We do obedience lessons, and while the Collies will keep working at a slow steady pace, Honey gets bored with this, and likes to jump around from exercise to exercise - after 2-3 retrieves she's ready for some heelwork, after a few minutes of heelwork, she's on to the next thing.  While the Collies will keep working for food treats, I have to mix it up and use play as a reward far more.  A good trainer will be able to accommodate Bailey's needs in a group lesson...

Also remember that he is still young, and probably hitting adolescence... if you are getting frustrated, it might be worth pausing the training classes and just strengthening the commands he does have....

One word of warning, though.... never recall unless you can guarantee he will obey, or you are only training him to ignore you...  
Use a long-line while he is still learning the ropes... find the one thing he will move mountains for...

Above all, learn to enjoy your dog... if you are happier with him, he will want to be with you more, and will do more for you!  

Remember, Cockers were bred to work - if they were untrainable, they'd be no use on the shooting fields!  

In my limited experience, I think Cockers need to know what's in it for them - you do see dogs who will just follow their owners like sheep.  Cockers are intelligent and won't just blindly follow... find what motivates him (praise, toys, games, food, sniffing... whatever works) and use it!

[elaine.e]

I sympathise with you. Louis is nearly 8 months and has the attention span of a gnat always wanting to be doing something, but usually not the thing that I want him to be doing

The training class that we go to has about 10 dogs in it at the moment. There are 2 other puppies about the same age as Louis and the rest are all older. The class lasts 45 minutes and we do a huge variety of things in that time. The trainer mixes the activities up so that something exciting for the dogs is followed by a calmer activity. Some of the work is done as a group, some individually. Louis is very excitable when we arrive and it's hard for me to get his attention, but he improves as the lesson goes on and is tired by the end because he's worked hard, even if he's been fooling around quite a lot.

Don't compare Bailey with the other dogs. If I did that I'd be in deep despair most of the time . I think Cockers are very trainable, but I also think they're late to mature mentally and have a long spell of adolescence.

Like Karma has said, try and find what motivates Bailey and gets his attention. It might also be worth looking for a different class if the current class is really obedience motivated and spends a lot of time on one activity. Louis copes better when the activities change frequently because it's encouraging him to think about a new activity before he's lost the plot because he's bored with the old one. He learns quickly, but it has to be a short burst of learning followed by a change to something else. Doing the same thing over and over again simply doesn't work for him.

[Pudding]

in my training classes we do 1/2 hour agility and 1/2 hours obedience
no time to get bored
he loves the agility and has a good time

[Sarah.H]

Do you have play breaks in your classes? The ones I did with Charlie had regular breaks where the instructor would shout 'play with your dog!' and we'd all act a bit mental  . Charlie loved playing tuggy so I used do that with his lead (I did teach him a rock solid leave so he'd let go  ) and it was a great reward for him. He was the best in the class and was the only spaniel so they are definitely trainable its just keeping them motivated enough to stay interested  .

[Gayle and Bailey]

Cockers are definately trainable and there are quite a few working their way through the obedience classes in obedience competitions.

I have found that cockers wont take as much repetition of one exercise as collies do.  Its better to keep it varied so they dont get bored.

You need to find what makes your cocker tick - we have to push the right buttons when training them. Your boy is still very young too and if he is interested in toys have regular play sessions as a reward in between more "formal" exercises to keep him motivated.

What I found works well with my cocker, who competes in obedience, and has won out of pre-beginners, is to have a variety of rewards he likes and use the very high value treats for the best quality work.  It soon has him trying a bit harder in order to get the favourite treat 

Above all have fun in training!

Hope this helps

Gayle & Bailey

[supergirl]

Cockers are definitely trainable - Roly can be a little monster when he wants to, but what I've found is that certain voices work really well with him.  Sometimes when we're out on a walk I'll try out different voices (usually quite high pitched) and see which ones get a look, a recall etc.   I've found that high pitched and in a bit of sing song voice really get his attention, sometimes not even using his name.  Do look a bit daft when we're out on a walk, but its a case of whatever works.  Calling his name and running away from him works really well with Roly and then as soon as he gets to me either a treat or a game (or both).

[jla]

I agree with the above.  I am a trainer and if someone is having some challenges with their dog then normally a timeout works.  I also make sure that people bring along a real variety of treats (including some smelly ones if the dog is a bit absent  ).  I'd reconmmend trying much higher value treats something like garlic sausage or liver sausgae.  

If you need to take him out of the hall and work him there for a few minutes or just play to take the distratcion levels down.

Just one thing that I wouldn't recommend agility unless you have a good recall and a wait.  

[mel1961red]

Thanks the class Im with is quite small only about 10 dogs but Bailey is the youngest the thing is he has a very sensetive tummy so I have to be careful what treats he has and with him the class is a mixture of things like heel work sits downs stands etc, and I know he can do it but if hes in a mood he will completely ignore me treat or no treat smae as when we are out, he will run off and come back some times but not all again depends on his mood. as for motivation Im really not sure because he loves his food but if at class there is a new dog then his motivation is the dog and not his food sometimes he plays with his toy and sometimes he doesnt so I dont really know what is his best motivation at the moment all he is interested in is playing with other dogs and chasing them maybe when he gets castrated in a couple of weeks he will change he understands all the commands but its just whether he wants to do it or not. I love him to pieces though even though I wish he would be more loyal to me hopefully that will come with age.

[Top Barks]

10 dogs in a class would be too many for my liking, if you and your dog are struggling in a class environment, have you thought about asking your trainer if they do one to ones?
what sort of methods does your trainer use?
Cockers are VERY VERY Trainable!

[Nicola]

I love him to pieces though even though I wish he would be more loyal to me hopefully that will come with age.

Bailey not coming back when he's called isn't to do with how 'loyal' he is, it's to do with how well you've trained his recall and how motivated he is to return to you i.e. how interesting are you and is it worth his while to come back. Also as already said his age may well have a good part to play in this as adolescent dogs can have very short attention spans so making training unpredictable for him and using a variety of motivators - praise, play, toys, treats - could help as it'll keep him on his toes and he won't know what's coming next. Cockers are very trainable, my lot work as gundogs and the youngest one is training for field trials, it's a matter of motivating them and making yourself interesting enough to keep their focus. I would second the suggestion of asking your trainer about some one to one sessions so you can get their advice while working with Bailey without the distractions of the other dogs and you can tailor the session to him with lots of changes in what you're working on so he stays interested.

[Karma]

Also, not sure you should bank on castration solving this... 

[supergirl]

Also, not sure you should bank on castration solving this... 

Agree, Roly is now 19 months old and entire, we've had some moments, but managed to find something that worked for us, now I couldn't lose him if I tried.