Trouble at `t mill

[lindseyp]

Sorry to hear the boys aren't getting on too well at the mo Jay -quite upsetting when this happens 
My situation is a bit different as I have mum (Purdey) & two litter sisters (Livie & Tinker) & all bitches. The two girls are 3 now & a lot better (think they have an understanding of each others bounderies & rarely push it these days) but it wasn't easy when they were younger. From about Bayliss's age they had frequent spats (some you could say were almost fights - blood drawn only once  ) but on (nearly) all occasions I let them sort it & tried not to interfere. I also got in a behaviourist, which helped me to understand things from a dogs perspective & stopped me from making the situations worse by doing the correct 'human' thing. There were times when I thought it would never settle & we spent a lot of time removing toys/chews/attention or anything that started it. I nearly got to the point that I thought it wasn't fair on the dogs either, as they didn't seem happy or relaxed but always stressed & on guard ...happily I can say that things have settled & are more relaxed BUT they are now 3 & it took about 2 years for them to tollerant of each other - I believe they 'love' each other but are not 'best friends' & never will be   

By all means get all the medical checks done & enlist the help of a good behaviourist but as Helen says - sometimes they just don't get on, in a way we would like & it's just 'ce la vie' - it may be a long road but they may learn to live with each other even if they can't be 'bessie mates' ....... thinking of you all Jay 

[Midas]

and here we disagree.

COL does not advocate the use of physical violence or aversives, nor do we hold any credence with outdated pack theories.  You are not a dog and your dogs know that - physical aggression may temporarily seem to quell the problem but you are potentially causing more issues with the dogs and not resolving anything.

We don't recommend these methods, and will remove posts promoting them.

Hear Hear 

[J]

Hi Helen,,

Agreed,, noted and isn't high on my list of things to do to a dog,, EVER!

Cheers for all the advice too, booked in at the vets and will keep you all informed.

[Helen]

fingers crossed J 

[Ben's mum]

hope you managed to get things sorted.
I have very similar issues with Ben 7 and Harry 1 both been 'done' 
Ben hated everything about Harry when he arrived 5 months ago, however the only thing that is really an issue now is toys/playing.  like Bayliss Ben develops a red mist which makes him want to flatten Harry whenever Harry tries to initiate play.

I took all toys out of the house to avoid confrontation then slowly reintroduced one toy into the house for a short time.  We have got to the stage where Ben doesn't go ballistic if Harry picks it up and carries it round but he starts to get wound up if Harry tries to play.  its worse if Ben has the toy and Harry wants to join in.
Outside is a bit more tricky.  if Ben is running and Harry runs up and tries to start a game things get nasty, I usually do a whistle recall as soon as things start to look a bit dodgy.  I made the mistake of taking a ball thrower for the first time last week and it was horrendus Ben was so wound up that Harry only had to look at him and Ben got quite nasty. 

I will be really interested to hear how things go for you and how you manage to make progress, any tips about what works greatfully recieved
Bens mum

[bluegirl]

Hi J,
Can't start preaching about dogs not getting on as mine always have and I've never had issues, but when pup owner who already had a male dog wished to take a male pup there were concerns about what if things didn't work out and the Vet told them that if they fell out both dogs should be castrated not just one. Now they did get on and both have remained entire, but I am wondering if that injection could be given to pup before you take the plunge to see if things would settle down if both were neutered. Can't remember the name but I know peeps have tried it on here. Just a thought.

[J]

After yet another set to this morning followed up with an immeadiate second helping,, we got them both to the vet!

Vet has put is contact with a vetinary behaviourist  who specialises in late onset agression.
He feels that Bayliss now thinks that because he has attacked the pup for a while that it is now just normal behaviour for him.
He said there is a chance he can be sorted out but that we really must prepare for him/pup to be rehomed
It can take months and in the short term we're going to soft muzzle him.

Fingers crossed we'll boss this and I realise it's going to take a while with more tears and upset yet.

thanks to everyone who has offered help and support
Jx

[BettyBoo]

Can't offer any advice as it's not something I've ever had to cope with but I really hope the behaviourist can help you. They're both such gorgeous boys and it must be so upsetting for everyone when they fight.

[Nicola]

I really hope that the behaviourist can help J, I've been in a similar situation with fighting male dogs and it's very difficult and stressful for everyone.

[Hurtwood Dogs]

So sorry... keeping everything crossed that you can resolve this, I can imagine it's heart breaking for you.. 

I agree with your vet about some aggressive behaviours becoming 'established' because they've happened a few times but my only experience of it is with aggression issues out of the house and with strange dogs on walks, not a resident dog. I've been able to improve the problem I have as I'm always on hand (on a walk) to manage it and reward for good behaviour but I guess it's going to be a lot harder with two resident dogs.

Wishing you lots of luck and really hope the behaviourist can help them

[clairep4]

I really feel for you, it's so horrible when this kind of thing happens and not always easy to work out the rhyme or reason to it either. Hope the behaviourist is a good one and can help.

[pete19873.5efi]

Ok i agree that being rough with a dog is only ever an extreme case and one that i would not enter into easily but did anyone watch the top gear trip to the North Pole?
They raced a husky pack against a car

did you see how the professional handler controlled them, even when they got really aggressive, even fighting............................do you think she loved her pets/dogs/tools..........lifeline.......only way back to civilisation any less than we do our pets.

You may not agree on this forum on pack instincts of dogs and humans or with beating dogs (which i am dead set against also) but do take off the blinkers a little and consider why so many dog behaviourists do respect and work with the dog /human pack theory.

[smartietopdog]

Uh oh, not sure you should have said that......................

anyway, I really hope you manage to get it sorted Jay, this is one of my biggest worries, and is whats holding me back from getting my pup.

[Jane S]

You may not agree on this forum on pack instincts of dogs and humans or with beating dogs (which i am dead set against also) but do take off the blinkers a little and consider why so many dog behaviourists do respect and work with the dog /human pack theory.

Please take this kind of discussion to the General Dog Related Discussion Board (where you'll find numerous existing threads on dog training theories, pack theory etc) - we'd rather threads where a member is asking for help on specific issues were not taken off track by arguments about pack theory.

[sophiew]

After yet another set to this morning followed up with an immeadiate second helping,, we got them both to the vet!
Vet has put is contact with a vetinary behaviourist  who specialises in late onset agression.
He feels that Bayliss now thinks that because he has attacked the pup for a while that it is now just normal behaviour for him.
He said there is a chance he can be sorted out but that we really must prepare for him/pup to be rehomed
It can take months and in the short term we're going to soft muzzle him.
Fingers crossed we'll boss this and I realise it's going to take a while with more tears and upset yet.

I'm glad you're getting help, and hope that things settle down, it must be very upsetting to have to live with the two dogs not getting on. Wishing you all the best