Author Topic: What's your views on harnesses?  (Read 3727 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Top Barks

  • Site Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5234
  • Gender: Male
    • http://www.topbarks.co.uk
Re: What's your views on harnesses?
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2010, 04:46:45 PM »
Praia, your comments about some people using harnesses and head collars as a crutch has substance but then really that sometimes is not a problem to them.
Not everyone has the skill, time, patience and dedication to have their dogs walk with a loose lead 100% generalised to all situations.
I myself as a trainer would not claim this of my four cocker's, does this make me bad?
Should I then walk them on flat collars and leash pop them when they go wrong?
My dogs do not walk anywhere with a tight lead whether that is on a harness, collar or whatever equipment, but the average pet owner is not prepared to go to the lengths that i do to ensure this.
Does this make them wrong?
I go to clients houses and sometimes dispair as to what i could do with their dog if it were mine, i see a lot of wasted potential sometimes and it is sad.
As a trainer you have to learn to deal with that and at the end of the day my job is to help the owner give the dog a better quality of life and in doing so try and give them a means to facilitate what is important to them.
If that means a harness so be it.
So yes it can be an easy way out, a crutch if you like but if it proves better for the dog and owner then I'd take that over an ill timed leash pop that may cause harm to the dog.

Mark Sanderson BSc Hons (canine behaviour), FdSc CBT, CAP 1, CAP 2
Member of The Association Of Pet Dog Trainers (00977)
 
Check out my website http://www.topbarks.co.uk/  www.yorkdogtrainer.co.uk

Offline sneaks

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
Re: What's your views on harnesses?
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2010, 05:38:56 PM »
Rogue pulls on the lead, so i have to use a harness - well I use a halti. After finding out I have a major spinal problem and several operations later, my surgeon said I had to get rid of her because if she jolts me then it will cause damage. Compromise = halti.

But we only use it to walk the 20 meters to get onto the field behind our house - only then because there are cars that drive up the gravel track.

The halti is amazing, completley stops pulling! and we do put it on her if we go somewhere e.g. town centre where she can attempt to lick faces  :005:

However, for some reason, when OFF the lead, she walks perfectly to heel. I have no idea why the lead transforms her to a puller. We were told to only use positive reinforcement for getting her to heel - just praise her for doing it. Pah! after hours of trying, she was having none of it. Until my hubby did a stern 'Oiiiii' when she ran ahead - now she walks to heel perfectly and the occassional 'oii' if she goes ahead. And her positive reward is being told 'good girl' which is her release command, so she can go speeding off into the fields  ::)

Offline praia

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 407
Re: What's your views on harnesses?
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2010, 06:46:45 PM »
This thread was originally about whether one liked harnesses and I stated my reasons why I don't. I didn't post to push on people my methods of training. I just came here to state that harnesses are fine, but that many people use it as an excuse to not properly train their dog to a reliable heel while on a leashed walk.  I should have known better that it would all end in a lecture from certain members.

I knew I'd be opening up a can of worms if I wrote "light pop on the lead." The light pop on the lead is not a corrective jerk. It's more of a "hey, get back in touch with reality and look at me" touch on the shoulder. Of course, correcting a dog too severely is dangerous physiologically and psychologically, but in my opinion, a well-timed corrective pop on the lead is an effective way to nip the problem in the butt.  However, I've already lurked around on this forum long enough to know what the general consensus on dog training is on here so I'm sure a collective shocked gasp of animal cruelty is echoing throughout the forum.  ANY tool, whether it be collar or harness, can be used cruelly or ineffectively.

The person posting the originally question asked "what's your views on harnesses" and I clearly stated my position backing that opinion with my belief that too many people use harnesses as a crutch.  If they're okay with that, I clearly stated that it's okay to do whatever works best for you and your dog.  What I wrote was more of cautionary advise so that the original poster was aware that though anti-pull harnesses may work in the meantime, they certainly don't mean that the dog is trained well enough to walk well without the anti-pull harness.  If all they want is a pleasant walk then that's fine.  It certainly doesn't make them wrong, but if they don't want to always depend on such a training tool then maybe they should consider other options. 

Offline Top Barks

  • Site Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5234
  • Gender: Male
    • http://www.topbarks.co.uk
Re: What's your views on harnesses?
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2010, 08:46:38 PM »
Sorry if you felt you were lectured. ;) You have put your point across well IMO and i totally get where you're coming from. :D
I still do not agree with leash pops, no matter how insignificant you deem them to be but that is my choice.
This forum does have a reward based training ethic and one we are proud of but everyone is entitled to an oppinion even if "some members"  may disagree. Hey it's a forum and would be a boring place should we all agree on everything. :lol2:
I think we agree that training a dog to walk on a loose lead is very rewarding and satisfying and is the ideal solution to any pulling problem.

Mark Sanderson BSc Hons (canine behaviour), FdSc CBT, CAP 1, CAP 2
Member of The Association Of Pet Dog Trainers (00977)
 
Check out my website http://www.topbarks.co.uk/  www.yorkdogtrainer.co.uk

Offline HeatherandBenjy

  • Site Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1556
  • Gender: Female
Re: What's your views on harnesses?
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2010, 09:58:11 PM »
As someone who has six rescue dogs who have come from different circumstances I am proud of the fact that I can walk 5 of them on leads without them pulling (albeit only at the start of a walk, as they then go off lead).

Our sixth dog though is different. She's an almost blind, ex puppy farm breeding working cocker bitch. She is highly intelligent. She spent the first six years of her life locked in a shed, starving, uncared for and producing litters of puppies. To say that she is 'over stimulated' when out on a walk is the understatement of the year!

I've tried hours and hours and hours of training, I've tried training her on her own, training her with our steadiest dog, training using leads, long lines, harnesses, you name it, I've tried it. Because she's almost blind, she has to stay on some sort of lead (and even then I have to be very vigilant to make sure she doesn't run into trees). She gets so excited when she's out that despite frequent returns to sit with me to calm down, she rarely listens when she's in full flight, which is all of the rest of the time.

So, to stop her damaging her neck and to stop my arms and neck from being damaged, I use a harness. Maybe I'm avoiding training issues, but I honestly don't see a better way of doing this at the moment....
Heather, Buddy, Archie, Fizzy, Bruno and Amber!

Offline clairep4

  • Site Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2922
  • Gender: Female
  • The Two Muppeteers!
    • Chow Bella Pet Bowls
Re: What's your views on harnesses?
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2010, 09:50:12 AM »
Praia, I think some of the misunderstanding has been because you seemed to be saying that ALL harnesses are used as a crutch when you specifically meant anti-pull harnesses ;)
Claire, Bella & Zorro - the two muppeteers!
Tellington TTouch Practitioner P1
www.tellingtontouch.org.uk

Offline Victoria25

  • Donator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 995
  • Gender: Female
  • Perfect Poppy (almost!)
Re: What's your views on harnesses?
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2010, 10:26:41 AM »
Poppy is normally walked on a harness beause I think it is more comfortable for her. She has never pulled on the lead since she was a puppy- not through my training by any stretch of the imagination- she just doesn't.
Poppy is now one! Watch her first year!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVqf3TnIL6c

Offline suzysu

  • Site Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6764
Re: What's your views on harnesses?
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2010, 11:00:29 AM »
My two are sooo much better on a harness  :D  Have just lent one to friends who has just got a rescue cocker and they said it worked wonders and have now bought one  ;)
Sue, Georgie n Daisy x
   "I luv my girls"

Offline LindyLou

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 954
  • Gender: Female
Re: What's your views on harnesses?
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2010, 11:21:31 AM »
Thank you all for your opinions and experiences regarding harnesses.

I have ordered one and it arrived today  ;) I am thrilled with it  :blink:

Our walk from the house to the park was smooth, controlled and a joy!

As I mentioned in my first post, Baxter was not a lunger or a constant puller, but always slightly ahead with tension on the lead. I have continually stopped, brought him back to heel and once the lead was loose, started again. Yes, those outings could take a long time, but I thought "He has to get it soon" so perservered. I also practiced at home, but Baxter will do anything you want at home, just not in the outside world which is far too interesting.

I appreciate what Praia has said about people using the harness as a crutch or an excuse not to train their dogs, but I would much rather see a dog on a harness, that being yanked roughly by a frustrated owner or not walked at all because people find there is no enjoyment taking their dog out anymore.


In a perfect world we would all have the time, patience and expertise to have our dogs behave impeccably.

I am not giving up on the flat collar and lead, as I do believe he and I can master it, but neither do I see it as a failure to have him walk nicely on a harness.  ;)
Linda & Baxter

Offline Jessie_Pup

  • Donator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2904
Re: What's your views on harnesses?
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2010, 12:48:08 PM »


My two are both walked on a harness. Jessie is a small cocker spaniel and I don't want any tension on her neck saying that she is fine walking to heel.    Started off using a K9 Bridle  . Now they have an cosy dog harness with the ring attachment at the front. Dylan needs to wear a harness as he has cataracts and his sight is poor.   I have to put him on a flexilead for his safety sometimes and wearing a harness is more comfortable.

Offline goldblend90

  • Donator
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 191
  • Gender: Female
  • Harley Boy looking good !!
Re: What's your views on harnesses?
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2010, 02:11:26 PM »


I am not giving up on the flat collar and lead, as I do believe he and I can master it, but neither do I see it as a failure to have him walk nicely on a harness.  ;)

Hi

I found the easiest way to walk both mine to heal on a flat collar and lead, was to walk to an area on a harness, and then to allow the dog off lead running etc, and then to practise the walking to heal on the flat collar and lead on the way home.  This worked for me, as I didn't get frustrated with the dog, and then also the dog is tired on the way home so less likely to pull, therefore it was easier to reinforce the good behaviour.

Hope this helps.

Jenny, Harley & Mayhem


Offline JeffandAnnie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: What's your views on harnesses?
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2010, 06:27:41 PM »
Well, my dogs both have (non-restraining) harnesses and they pull like trains :D They are rarely on lead for long, so we've never spent time to train them to walk nicely. I guess a whole other thread could be created on the topic of "Should you train your dogs to do x,y,z even if you don't need them to"! 

Offline SkyeSue

  • Inactive
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5139
  • Gender: Female
Re: What's your views on harnesses?
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2010, 08:20:29 PM »
I guess a whole other thread could be created on the topic of "Should you train your dogs to do x,y,z even if you don't need them to"! 

I agree  :shades: :005: Go for it  :005:


Sue and Chloe, happy girls on the Isle of Skye