Walking Harness / Lead

[Curtisio]

While walking Kyro - on a lead - he is quite good some of the time.

I have been looking into harnesses.

Are harnesses a good idea or is it better to perservere in getting your dog walking perfectly on a lead and collar.

Is it just a preference of is one seen better than another.

We will be doing the KC silver in a few months, does anyone know if streetwalking the dog with a harness is acceptable to the KC awards

[Curtisio]

Not to worry, Just called KC GCDS, You can only walk on a harness in their schemes for medical reasons, other than that it's lead and collar only...  

[Dunton4]

Not to worry, Just called KC GCDS, You can only walk on a harness in their schemes for medical reasons, other than that it's lead and collar only...

You beat me to it!  This was one of the few questions posed on this forum that I actually knew the answer to     !  Doh!


Good luck with the walking - perseverence really does pay off.

Sue and Tilly

[Sue H]

The question is - do you persist with the collar and lead, when you have to stop and start evey few seconds, all for the sake of a Certificate ....

Or do you actually enjoy your young Cocker - if they pull, use a harness or flexi-lead, just so they have the enjoyment of going out and being part of the community; socialising with other dogs, and you can graduate to more acceptable forms of control once they have got over their puppiness ....

It is like saying that if you do everything they say in the books, your children should be quiet and polite once they are out of nappies, and should sit nicely and use a knife and fork at all times when eating .... they should never puke unless it is in a toilet of your choosing, and their hair should grow exactly as it was specified in the baby-book, otherwise you can feel cheated, and you should ask for your money back !!

Do we have 'Good as Gold Toddlers' clubs??  Are there Societies for 'Absolutely Thick Dog Owners'  'Totally Stupid Parents' ??

I sometimes think that breeders and showers are getting too prescriptive and precious, and that normal dog-owners feel as though they are the stooopid cousins of someone who once knew someone who had a friend who once had a dog of their own .....

[Cob-Web]

The question is - do you persist with the collar and lead, when you have to stop and start evey few seconds, all for the sake of a Certificate ....

Not for a certificate, but to ensure that in the long term you raise a dog who is well behaved, not a nuisance, or worse a liability  ::

Or do you actually enjoy your young Cocker - if they pull, use a harness or flexi-lead, just so they have the enjoyment of going out and being part of the community; socialising with other dogs, and you can graduate to more acceptable forms of control once they have got over their puppiness ....

I am surprised that with your experience you advocate this approach; in my experience a pup that is left to get over its puppiness before being guided into self-control then becomes an adult dog with no self-control, requiring attention and dedication beyond the abilities of your 'average' pet owner. Molo is still learning, and until he does, my 'enjoyment' of being part of the dog community is limited by his sometimes overexcitable behaviour   and he gets (on occasion) ostracised or told off by other doggies  

It is like saying that if you do everything they say in the books, your children should be quiet and polite once they are out of nappies, and should sit nicely and use a knife and fork at all times when eating .... they should never puke unless it is in a toilet of your choosing, and their hair should grow exactly as it was specified in the baby-book, otherwise you can feel cheated, and you should ask for your money back !!

I don't know what parenting books you have read   none of the ones I have read imply this ; I can recommed two good authors of parenting books; Christopher Green and Steve Biddulph - excellent, sensible advise that celebrates the uniqueness of children while explaining how to channel their youthful exuberance that would otherwise lead them into danger  

Do we have 'Good as Gold Toddlers' clubs??  Are there Societies for 'Absolutely Thick Dog Owners'   'Totally Stupid Parents' ??

I went to parenting classes when I was pregnant, as I had no previous experience of children. Does this make me totally stupid?  ::

I sometimes think that breeders and showers are getting too prescriptive and precious, and that normal dog-owners feel as though they are the stooopid cousins of someone who once knew someone who had a friend who once had a dog of their own .....

I have felt 'excluded' by the breeding and showing community occasionally as a pet owner, both within COL and in the RW - but I don't see how the KC Good Citizen scheme applies to these people; NONE of the dogs that attended the Puppy Foundation Assessment classes, or the Good Citizen classes I went to were show dogs; they go to the Ringcraft classes.....I'm not sure I see the relevance to this thread?
____________________________________________________________________

Anyway, to comment on the origional posting   ; Molo pulls, and I am persisting with a collar and lead, as it is easier to deal with than a harness, which can be fiddly to put on and take off. I know some people leave the harness on when their dog is off-lead, but I would be less comfortable with this as I have seen that harnesses can chaff and I would think they could get caught up if dogs were playing boistrously together  

I have just bought a training line, and intend to begin working him with this for his recall, I anticipate that his pulling will reduce as well    as it will teach Molo to hold his attention on me, wherever he is - thats the theory, anyway    

[Colin]

The question is - do you persist with the collar and lead, when you have to stop and start evey few seconds, all for the sake of a Certificate ....

Or do you actually enjoy your young Cocker - if they pull, use a harness or flexi-lead, just so they have the enjoyment of going out and being part of the community; socialising with other dogs, and you can graduate to more acceptable forms of control once they have got over their puppiness ....

It is like saying that if you do everything they say in the books, your children should be quiet and polite once they are out of nappies, and should sit nicely and use a knife and fork at all times when eating .... they should never puke unless it is in a toilet of your choosing, and their hair should grow exactly as it was specified in the baby-book, otherwise you can feel cheated, and you should ask for your money back !!

Do we have 'Good as Gold Toddlers' clubs??  Are there Societies for 'Absolutely Thick Dog Owners'  'Totally Stupid Parents' ??

I sometimes think that breeders and showers are getting too prescriptive and precious, and that normal dog-owners feel as though they are the stooopid cousins of someone who once knew someone who had a friend who once had a dog of their own .....

Surely you aren't inferring that reading training books, taking pups to training classes and entering your dogs for  the Good Citizen Scheme are bad things ?  

I wouldn't recommend the use of a flexi lead on a puppy - I've said it many times on here but that was the biggest mistake I ever made with Jimmy, they just reward unwelcome behaviour; pull on the lead and it will extend.  

I'm not sure what breeders and showers have to do with the flat collar v harness
debate at all.  

[Curtisio]

What I have thought of doing - as I won't to bring up a well behaved puppy - and both enjoy his puppy life and his adult life.

At about 6 months old Kyro walked - not perfectly - but very well on a lead, now at 8 months it seems to have all gone out of the window.

New thought with harness - I'd like you thoughts. Walk Kyro with both harness and lead, and eventually drop the harness lead, but leave the harness on, then hopefully he will not realise that he is just walking on a lead. But as IWLass says

a collar and lead, as it is easier to deal with than a harness, which can be fiddly to put on and take off. I know some people leave the harness on when their dog is off-lead

It's hard enough to get his walking collar on at the best of time, let alone a harness. Maybe I'll just persist...  

[Mike]

The question is - do you persist with the collar and lead, when you have to stop and start evey few seconds, all for the sake of a Certificate ....

Or do you actually enjoy your young Cocker - if they pull, use a harness or flexi-lead, just so they have the enjoyment of going out and being part of the community; socialising with other dogs, and you can graduate to more acceptable forms of control once they have got over their puppiness ....

It is like saying that if you do everything they say in the books, your children should be quiet and polite once they are out of nappies, and should sit nicely and use a knife and fork at all times when eating .... they should never puke unless it is in a toilet of your choosing, and their hair should grow exactly as it was specified in the baby-book, otherwise you can feel cheated, and you should ask for your money back !!

Do we have 'Good as Gold Toddlers' clubs??  Are there Societies for 'Absolutely Thick Dog Owners'  'Totally Stupid Parents' ??

I sometimes think that breeders and showers are getting too prescriptive and precious, and that normal dog-owners feel as though they are the stooopid cousins of someone who once knew someone who had a friend who once had a dog of their own .....

Sue.

Are you really suggesting that anyone following the KC awards scheme is doing so simply for the sake of obtaining a certificate, at the expense of their young cocker's enjoyment? Or could it just be.... they want to produce young cockers that are well-behaved, well-socialised and well-adjusted, perish the thought!!! No puppy training classes at all from now on then!

It is nothing at all like suggesting you do everything they say in the books, and when you say it is, you're just purposefully being offensive to pratically everyone who has every read a guide to parenting or dog training, or been to such classes.

As you are also being extremely offensive when you infer that anyone following such a sheme is effectively an "absolutely thick dog owner". I've really no idea how you could possibly think it is appropriate to make such a statement on the board - the only reason I'm not deleting it (in fact your entire post!) is because I think other people should have the right to reply.

I think your final paragraph says it all really - you're clearly projecting your own issues into this thread, regardless whether they're in context or not. And they're not.  

Mike




 

[Jane S]

I sometimes think that breeders and showers are getting too prescriptive and precious, and that normal dog-owners feel as though they are the stooopid cousins of someone who once knew someone who had a friend who once had a dog of their own .....

What on earth has breeding & showing got to do with Curtisio's question about whether to use a collar/lead or a harness? It's nothing to do with breeding or showing whatsoever - KC Good Citizen classes are designed for all dog owners & while some show owners do take part with their dogs, the vast majority are pet owners just like yourself. Like others who have already posted, I also find some of your other comments offensive & insulting to any puppy owner who is doing their best to train their pup by taking them to classes & using highly regarded books on puppy training. Sue, I'm afraid I am putting you on Moderated posting for the time being until you learn to read threads properly & think before you post.

Jane

[Curtisio]

Sue

Having re-read your post, I am pretty annoyed.

It does sound as if you a inferring that my dog or any other gong to training classes are not socialised or enjoying their puppy life.

Kyro gets two/three walk per day, on and off the lead. When he pulls we don't stop, we turn around, so therefore he still walks the same distance. We go the local park at the weekends and will go in the evenings in the spring.

If we don't crack the walking when he’s young he'll think its acceptable to pull.

Kyro is very well socialised he always sees dogs at the park and at the training club.

At training the lady who takes the puppy class said something on our first week which will always stay with me " A dog can't be disobedient before he's been obedient." on this ethos a dog is never punished at our club only praised and treated for good behaviour. Therefore they learn that doing thing well get rewards...

In the end, in reality I couldn't give two hoots about a certificate if I thought my dog was being done out of fun. But he's not, He enjoys it and does very well.

We play with Kyro a lot, See my post about wanting to bring on fetch for fun. But if he has fun and games all of the time he'll grow up thinking that’s all life is about. In a pack the Alpha dogs tell the pups when they've had enough, the don't play all day.

In the end I want a dog I can take almost everywhere and is a joy to be with.
He is fun to be with now, and I just want it to get better and better,
 

[Silver Surfer (indiesnan)]

Sue i can't believe what ive just read and i definatly don't agree with your post, in fact i think you have insulted lots of people on here,      i do think you should think before you print    flexi leads only encourage dogs to pull and forge ahead, and are also very dangerous to use near roads, there have been cases were dogs have been run over useing them.   We all know the best time to start training is when there pups, not when there older    incidently that goes for children as well.
I think anyone who takes the time to go to training classes shows  just how much they care and want to do there best to have a well trained and sociable dog, and one that is a pleasure to own and to take anywere. We  took Nell because she was a lunatic, and nothing to do with getting a certificate   in fact we havn't got one, we only stayed long enough to get the basic idea of training her, and i would reccomend training school to anyone, its great fun and Nell loved it  

edited to say...Sue  as most of us that have worked in rescue  know , dogs that usualy end up there,  do so is because of there behavour, i would have thought you would have been recommending training at an early age instead of dishing it    

[Magic Star]

I'm shocked and stunned Sue at the content of your post, I also feel sad that some people may well take to heart what you have said   Is this the kind of information and advice the rescue you work at gives out?  If it is I am concerned and worry that many dogs that went home as puppies, will return to the shelter as the owners cannot handle them    

I used a flexi lead too with Indie and as Colin and my mum have said, it was a big mistake!   I personally think they should be taken off the market

Good luck with Kyro, you will get there with time, be reassured that you are not the only one to have had this problem  

[Pammy]

Or do you actually enjoy your young Cocker - if they pull, use a harness or flexi-lead, just so they have the enjoyment of going out and being part of the community; socialising with other dogs, and you can graduate to more acceptable forms of control once they have got over their puppiness ....

 

Sue - I don't intend to add to the responses you've had about the tone of your post - but I do take issue with your suggestion that for puppies that pull a flexi lead is the solution - it's not. Training is the solution and it does not mean that they do not have fun. They won't have fun only if you as the owner don't let them.

My boy's have flexi leads only used in safe spaces as flexi's - and they still pull when they get to the end of the lead - it does not stop them. And they have lots of fun both on the long lead, off the lead when it's safe and close by and in the home too!!

Curtisio - carry on as you are with Kyro - you're clearly looking to do the best for him and to have fun too developing and traning a dog that's a joy to own. Hat's off to you  

[*Jay*]

As I do the KC Good Citizen awards with my dogs (have I mentioned Vegas is going for gold this year   ), I am very much offended by the suggestion that they are missing out on being 'normal' dogs For me, training is something fun that I can do with my dogs and believe me, my dogs love it. If they didn't enjoy it, we wouldn't do it - simple as that really. My dogs are certainly not robots - they are just as  mischievous and playful as those dogs who don't do the KC awards. I do believe in letting puppies be puppies but gentle training does need to be started early - theres no point in letting a pup pull on the lead, jump up on people, chew everything in sight etc and then expect to be able to solve the problems easily once the dog is older. It just doesn't work like that - lack of training in young dogs (and it doesn't even have to be through a training school) can be the cause of many problems in adulthood and can be the reason people rehome or even euthanase their pets. Surely you would see some examples of that working in a rescue centre because I know I see plenty through my job. Saying that training a puppy is waste of time and denying them puppyhood has to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard

[speedyjaney]

Sue - I just want to add that I train both my dogs and am offended that you consider this me denying them fun! They love it ! It is their night out to see their mates and learn new things.

Curtiso - My Jessie pulls like mad too....and we have tried the harness route (all types too). They don't stop the pulling but they do stop her from choking and being sick whilst walking. We are trying the turning round method currently that you do but she isn't responding very well   tbh it is probably me (and the others that walk her) not being 100% consistent.  ::

At training I use a collar and lead as she is an angel there   but anywhere else she is a nightmare without her harness  

oh btw she is 17 months old now  

Jane