Grumpy Barney - To Castrate Or Not?

[04callahans]

Hi all. I haven't been on here since I first got my pup back at the beginning of the year.
But, seeing as we are having a few minor problems at the moment, this was my first port of call. I wonder if you can help me.

Barney has been the sweetest little man since we got him and has grown into a really wonderful, loving, well behaved dog. He is a year this weekend.
However, recently a couple of little growls have slipped out and I'm becoming concerned.

He had grumbled at my OH a couple of times, usually when he walks past him whilst he is eating, or has taken away something he has found in the garden and shouldn't have, but had never done it to me. It seemed I was able to take anything from his mouth without a problem.

However... at night he sleeps on his bed, next to our bed. Each night when we go up to bed he gets two biscuits, which he gets very excited about. The other night, as usual, I told him 'bed' and put his biscuits down for him to eat. Once he'd finished, I was still milling about getting ready for bed and I said to him 'All gone? Were they nice?' and he looked at me out of the corner of his eye and growled. I shouted at him and told him to lay down and didn't allow him off of his bed, nor did I speak to him again, just turned the lights out and went to sleep.

Then this morning, I was sitting on the floor sorting out a box and he came over. I was making a fuss of him and pulled him closer to me (he usually loves being picked up and always tries to sit ON you or as close as he can be) and he growled. I put him down, stood up and sent him out of the room, closing the door behind me. This time there was no food involved.

I'm thinking that he is getting to his 'teenage' stage and going from Mummy's baby to a stroppy adolescent. I'm sure it's not a big deal but I'd like to nip it in the bud. Any ideas?

Have enquired about having him castrated but can't decide whether to or not. The other thing I'm wondering about is agility or similar training to help him have more respect for me and also help engage his brain. Like I said, the majority of the time he's a little star and is sooo loving, but I'm just not happy that he feels it's ok to grumble at us whenever he is feeling peed off. I'd never take his food away or try to pet him when he is eating, so he has no reason to express his displeasure like this.

[cdpops]

I would get him checked over by the vet, as he may be in pain or discomfort.
I also wouldn't think tell him off for growling, it is his way of telling you he is not happy with something.
I am sure somebody with experience will be along with more detailed suggestions soon.

I think you might get more responses if you post this in the behaviour section.

[Karma]

I would definately get a vet-check to make sure there isn't a physical cause for his behaviour.  My next port of call would be a behaviourist.  It sounds like he is guarding (food, possibly the bed (though this isn't so clear as there could have been other reasons for a growl at that point), but there may be others things going on too.

cdpops is quite right, don't shout at him or punish him in any way for growling - it is his only way of saying he is uncomfortable with the position he finds himself in.  Dogs that have been prevented from growling will simply move up to the next stage if they are uncomfortable enough (ie, snap or bite).  Respect the growl for what it is, and be thankful he is letting you know that he is peed off... 

Make sure you find a behaviourist that isn't still following old-school dominance based thinking -  he is not being dominant, or trying to be top dog (though as an adolescent he may well be testing boundaries and seeing what he can get away with!). 

In the meantime, try to hand-feed him as much as possible and try to add tasty morsels to his food while he is eating (initally from a distance if he is not comfortable with you (or OH) close while he is eating).  Something like agility could be great (as long as the vet doesn't find a physical cause for his behaviour change which might make agility unwise) - when we started having guarding issues with Honey (directed at other dogs rather than us, but still guarding) as well as working on the behaviour we started obedience lessons, which helped us have a positive training focus!

And I definately would NOT get him castrated while his behaviour is suspect - castration will not solve the behaviour problems and could make them worse.

[JeffandAnnie]

Probably completely off the mark here, but perhaps he was a bit fearful of you after you shouted at him? Personally I don't think shouting has any positive effect on a dog, and can be negative Also, it's possible he just didn't want to be "manhandled" at the moment you grabbed him. I'd definitely get him checked out physically to be on the safe side, but perhaps look at more reward-based training in future and letting him have his own space rather than always expecting him to be delighted at being cuddled. 

[04callahans]

Hmm, interesting. When I say I shouted at him, I didn't yell expletives, I said a firm 'No Barney.' and told him to lay down.
Interesting that people think growling is acceptable. I'd not really thought of it like that before. With my parents dogs, growing up, growling was just not acceptable behaviour.

Karma, thanks for your reply. So what would be the best thing to do when he growls? Just leave him be? Dominance is definitely something that had crossed my mind. Although most of the time I don't feel he is that type of dog at all, I did wonder if this was maybe the issue.
I like the hand feeding idea. I think he'd be fine with that as 99% of the time he's not fussed by us being near his food. Definitely going to look into some sort of local obedience/agility training, obviously once a vet has checked him over. He's due a check up and weigh in anyway so will book that asap. And will hold of on getting rid of the knackers for the minute. He'll be pleased about that. 

Jeff & Annie, I don't think he would have been scared. He was happy to come up on the bed for a cuddle just before I got up and was playing in the garden with me just before hand. Like I said, it was him who came to me, and he usually loves nothing more than a cuddle, so I had no reason to think he suddenly might not want me to touch him. Again, what would I do in this situation? Just put him down and not react to the growl?
Would this not be 'letting him get away with it' and teaching him that growling is ok? Then what if he decides growling is a good way to always get what he wants? I'd be mortified if my dog decided it was ok to start growling at everybody. Sorry if these are silly questions, just don't want to do the wrong thing if/when it happens again, either being too soft OR too hard.

Thanks again for all the advice.

[JeffandAnnie]

Ah, semantics, yes I assumed you really SHOUTED at him! Also, I read it that you dragged him over and forced him to cuddle. Karma's much better a this kind of thing than me  Lovely to see your  Fell pony in the photos again.

[Karma]

Dominance is an outdated theory (unfortunately still very much supported by some trainers who haven't kept up-to-date with modern canine behavioural theory) - it arose from a flawed study on the behaviour of captive wolves, and while some aspects of "dominance" based training can be "effective" this is generally for one of two reasons - a) there is an alternative (non-dominance) explanation for it's effeciency (ie, not letting dogs through the door first can be a useful safety aspect, and consistently applying this means your dog won't bolt - not because he is bowing down to your alpha status, but because he is clear about what you expect him to do and he wants to please you!) or b) your dog is afraid to act differently (which only works to a degree (but can create a time-bomb as any issues aren't actually resolved, but just buried that little bit deeper) and only when you are around.  

As for how to react to growling (and why respecting the growl isn't encouraging growling) - take a look at this article - http://dogtrainer.quickanddirtytips.com/dog-growls-snaps.aspx  So, yes, if he is growling back off and give him his space... but you then need to address the underlying issues which are causing his unease.    You don't want a dog who is growling all the time, but it is much much better (for you and your dog) to address the cause of the growling rather than just stop the growling itself.  

Another thing that could be useful would be T-Touch - it can help with the bond between owner and dog, and helps relieve behavioural and health issues.  It was Honey's very unusual reaction to T-Touch which highlighted a minor back issue (then "diagnosed" by a chiropractor) which was contributing to a lot of Honey's behaviour issues.

Also, how do you (and OH) take things he shouldn't have from him?  That could be a major contributing factor to any guarding behaviour - spaniels are bred to pick things up, so it is in their nature to hold things.  You need to train him to retreive things to you, and reward him giving things to you with tasty treats - if he has a treasure he is reluctant to give you, you need to swap with something even higher value.  Also, avoidance is generally the best solution, so try not to leave things about that he can get hold of! 

[HeatherandBenjy]

Growling is a dog's way of communicating that he or she is feeling uneasy about something. Dogs can only react to things that make them uneasy by fleeing or fighting. Barney doesn't have the option (and wouldn't want to) run away from a situation that makes him uneasy, nor does he want to fight you, so he's just trying to tell you that he's feeling a little edgy. In that situation, I wouldn't tell him off, but I would usually back off.

If he's growling over an issue that needs to be resolved, then the best way is always to find a way of praising the behaviour you want and ignoring the behaviour you don't. As an example, Amber who is a rescue dog and a similar age to Barney, will growl if another dog comes up to me for a fuss while I'm fussing her. I'll continue to fuss both, but if she's carries on growling then I'll stop fussing her, no reprimands, I just don't reward that behaviour; if she's calm when I'm fussing the other dog, she gets told that she's a good girl and gets extra fusses.

I live with seven rescue dogs. I love it when Milo growls, he came from a very abusive home and had learnt that growling didn't keep him safe. If he feels scared (and he is scared about a lot of things) he doesn't bother with growling, or snarling, or snapping, he just bites and will bite several times. He's learnt that was the only way to keep himself safe.

I'm not saying for one moment that you would ever mistreat Barney, but please, take notice of his growls and acknowledge them as his attempts to let you know he's uncomfortable with a situation.

Hope this helps