Possession Aggression

[Joules]

Oh dear    I think the rescue have been very remiss - doesn't sound like he has been properly assessed at all 

Sounds like you need some professional help - I really think you should get a good behaviourist in asap  

[Wenco18]

I really feel for you  it sounds as if you have just been left to it without realising exactly what you were taking on 

I cannot offer advice but wish you well what ever you do and hope that things work out for Murphy in the future

[cdpops]

That is not good, you must all be very anxious. However a behaviourist will provide a programme that you can all follow that will help you manage the situation effectively. Where do you live somebody may be able to recommend a good one.
As a short term gap have you considered a muzzle? If introduced correctly they can really help.
I wish you well whatever route you decide to take.

[pud1954]

How sad for you I took on a Labrador rescue a few years ago and had really big problems with him very similar to you He was older and came straight to us from his previous home.I know I got it all wrong as we had never had a dog and thought an older rescue would be the answer after being scared to go in the same room with him and both my daughters hiding rather than go near him i asked for him to be removed.He was re homed again with some experienced people and ended biting the lady  badly it turned out he was poorly and had a tumour.but it scared me and the girls and only now having Mack do I feel confident with dogs again. He has no aggression at all and hopefully never will so I hope you get some help sooner rather than later Good luck

[Ben's mum]

Really sorry to hear you are having problems, Harry came with similar issues and I read 'Mine' as it was recommended on here.
I also used a baby gate and to keep Harry out of the kitchen and basically just removed everything and I mean everything, bins, veg rack, toy box anything that could cause an issue. It was at least a year before we could have any toys at all out on the floor.
On the few times he did manage to grab something and started to guard it, I just left him too it, moving into your dogs space is just not a good idea and can cause conflict that escalates.

Although there are lots of us on here who have had similar experience's, and lived with dogs who guard with one or two exceptions we are not behaviourists  and although we can tell you how we managed our own dogs problems, you really need to take professional advice from someone who can see what is happening, with something potentially serious like guarding I don't think you can 'try out' different things that are reccomended on a forum.

I do hope you find the right help and wish you all the best 

[PennyB]

It may also be that the rescue didn't spot it to this extent as I've found with some dogs who do this it escalates the more stress they feel and can be manifested in this way

[noelleybelley]

Well, things haven't really got any better.  Murphy spent last night in the dining room, because he wouldn't come out and no one was brave enough to go and get him.  We had all been sat in there and he and I were playing tug with a dog bone chew - no problems, he was a normal happy, playful dog.  Ten minutes later, we went to get him to put him to bed and the chew had become treasure to be guarded.  We left him to it for a while, hoping he'd lose interest, but then every time we tried to get near him, he snarled & lunged at us again.  I offered him cheese, ham, you name it.  In the end, we had to shut him in there and leave him.  It's so sad, because I think he knows he shouldn't be doing it, but can't seem to stop himself.

My husband has made the decision for the rest of the family and has asked CAESSR to take Murphy back.  I feel like I'm letting him down and, if it were just me, I would live with it and try to sort him out.  But he is so very unpredictable at the moment and he has everyone running scared.

At the moment he's having a good day, which makes it all the harder.

[bentley1984]

Well, things haven't really got any better.  Murphy spent last night in the dining room, because he wouldn't come out and no one was brave enough to go and get him.  We had all been sat in there and he and I were playing tug with a dog bone chew - no problems, he was a normal happy, playful dog.  Ten minutes later, we went to get him to put him to bed and the chew had become treasure to be guarded.  We left him to it for a while, hoping he'd lose interest, but then every time we tried to get near him, he snarled & lunged at us again.  I offered him cheese, ham, you name it.  In the end, we had to shut him in there and leave him.  It's so sad, because I think he knows he shouldn't be doing it, but can't seem to stop himself.

My husband has made the decision for the rest of the family and has asked CAESSR to take Murphy back.  I feel like I'm letting him down and, if it were just me, I would live with it and try to sort him out.  But he is so very unpredictable at the moment and he has everyone running scared.

At the moment he's having a good day, which makes it all the harder.

Really sorry to hear that..hopefully the rescue can sort him out..hope your ok xx

[Sula]

What a shame but you have to do what is best for you and your family and given how much you have invested in him will have not found it easy to make this heartbreaking decision.

[anneclarke]

what a horrible thing to decide but i to have been there with a rescue collie but this was rage frightened the life out of us as used to turn on us at drop of hat pinning me up against walls for no reason i made the decission to have him put down after trying for 2 years with backing from behaviouists vets etc just could not allow myself to pass the problem to someone else good luck in what you decide i know myself for 1 took a long time to recover from the episode and guilt i felt thinking of you

[JennyBee]

I am so sorry, I totally understand as he sounds very like my old cocker Barney, and it is so difficult to live with the unpredictably and never knowing when things would go wrong. You've done your best for him, reading this thread I can't help but feel you have all been let down. A heartbreaking decision, but the right one, I think. Massive hugs from me and I will be thinking of you

[john51]

I'm really sorry to hear the outcome of this, but obviously you must make the best decision for your family.

I considered whether to respond to this for a long time because it was my post that first drew some support for its suggestions and then some criticism. I would however like to make a couple of points.

Firstly I am a little concerned that CAESSR is attracting some comments that may be unjustified. I don't believe that the OP has ever said she felt let down by the rescue but this seems to have inferred in a couple of later posts. Having re-homed my dog, who also had resource guarding issues, from CAESSR I know that they are always available for advice and have a relationship with a behaviourist who can be contacted free of charge. (To avoid the need for anyone to comment, I am aware that this is not a substitute for a face-to-face consultation with a behaviourist but may well help to allow the owners to understand the issues and options.)

I am not 100% sure that it is the same dog, but Murphy, who was re-homed by CAESSR in July had the following comments in his write-up. "Murphy has a tendency to steal things. The majority of times he will growl and let go, but sometimes he snarls and the family feel that they cannot trust him with a new baby." As someone else has pointed out, the change in circumstances may well exacerbate any problem behaviours and anyone re-homing a dog with problems needs to be be aware of the potential issues. CAESSR re-home around 20+ dogs per month and do an excellent job for spaniels. Things will not always work out perfectly.

Secondly, picking up on reaction to my suggestions, my assumption is that anyone who tries to help a dog with issues will have some sensitivity in the way they deal with dogs and probably some experience with the breed. As someone who has "muddled through" and managed to help a dog with serious food aggression and possessiveness issues become one that is a pleasure to live with (most of the time!) I am slightly concerned that there seems to be a belief that the only acceptable way forward is to call in a behaviourist. I am sure there are times when consulting a good behaviourist will prove invaluable, but I am far from convinced that it is necessary for all cases. After all, this is surely a self-help group.

[noelleybelley]

John, yes, this is the same Murphy.   CAESSR have offered over-the-phone help from a behaviourist.  Because Murphy had been in kennels the two months he was with them, I don't think they would have picked up on how serious his problem is.  I'm not sure whether he was assessed by them, but maybe they didn't realise it was that bad from the description the previous owners gave?  I don't feel let down by CAESSR, they didn't knowingly hand him over to us and have agreed to take him back, to get him assessed.

Obviously we had read about his 'habit' on the website, (I had been waiting & watching for 2 months before I could apply for him because we were abroad), and thought we were prepared for that, having previously had another rescue cocker who had food possession problems when we got him.  However, Murphy is a whole other story and Charlie was never half as aggressive as he is.  Plus, whilst Charlie did steal socks, tea towels, shoes, etc., he would growl/snarl when approached and then give up his treasure.  He never actually lunged or really tried to bite anyone though and we never had any help from a behaviourist, we just learned what we could/ could not let him have and when not to get in his way.  Murphy would fight for his treasure, or so it seems, and I'm not about to test that! 

The sad thing is that Murphy is essentially a lovely, well trained, dog.  However, he's unpredictable because something can be 'nothing' to him one moment and then become something to be guarded the next.  Add to that the fact that he has on 3 occasions tried to bite my daughter because she did something he didn't want her to do, (gently push him down from the table), and we have a problem.

CAESSR have said they can collect him next weekend, so we'll see how this coming week goes... 

[PennyB]

another way I have used to relieve dogs of their possessions in circumtsances like this was to not give them eye contact but to sit a little way away from them and throw treats toward the dog and then progressive throw then so they'rew further away from them.

You've made the right decision as he is also finding it too stressful (its cyclical as he's making you stressful and he will then pick up on that which makes him more stressed). I fostered a cocker who had this particularly bad - she was more stressed with me because the resident animals were too much in your face

[john51]

Because Murphy had been in kennels the two months he was with them, I don't think they would have picked up on how serious his problem is.  I'm not sure whether he was assessed by them, but maybe they didn't realise it was that bad from the description the previous owners gave?

That's a good point. Often the rescue will not see the dog in a domestic situation and will have to rely on the previous owners' description of behaviour. This may be incomplete, and the move to a new home may well trigger behavioural changes. Potential adopters need to be aware of that risk and if things go wrong (hopefully rarely) be prepared to make the difficult decision about returning the dog or not.