Just growing up?

[theoldfella]

Tango (my black, neutered show cocker) is now 2 years 8 months and he has changed so much in the last few months. I have been reading other threads and I think everything he is doing is within the realms of "normal" but I would appreciate some confirmation and advice from more experienced owners! As you may have gathered, he is my first cocker, my previous dogs having both been just rescue mutts.

 I am unable to drive any more so virtually all his off lead walks are in a small area of national trust land adjacent to where I live which has some wooded areas, rough scrub and a grassy area. He used to love running around and playing with other dogs but now barks, often quite aggressively, at most dogs we pass, or sometimes just see in the distance, and this week made a lunge at a young staffie who just came to say hello. He does go into doggy day care from time to time and they always report that he is no trouble and has a good time whilst there.

I tend to now stay in the wooded and scrub areas, where I throw a ball or sticks which he seems to enjoy, although he
just cannot get the fact that he could bring the ball back to me once he has found it! Any tips as to how to make these games more interesting?

I street walk him on a lead around the village regularly and, apart from the pulling and zigzagging, he doesn't bark anywhere near as much, only usually if another dog comes up to him.

He is very strong willed and has never been a lap dog, unlike other cockers that I know, but I want to be sure that, so far as I am able, that I am doing the right things with him. Although I never leave them alone together he has always been good with my granddaughter (just 6) and I want it to stay that way!

Thanks for taking the time to read this and in advance for any advice.
Kevin

[PennyB]

dogs can sometimes become protective of their owners which is why he's probably fine at doggy day care when you're not there. I have one who's similar, more so if he's onlead - in his case its more about fear. But if I see there may be a problem with a dog in the distance I do the 'food bar' thing where I get him to look at me and give him a treat before he sees the dog. Clicker training using this similar technique is good for that too (where you pre-empt a situation) - with one of my dogs who occasionally took a dislike to certain dogs I made him ball mad so that we could walk (offlead) past a dog he didn't like (sometimes quite closely) with him focusing on the tennis ball I had, then once past the dog I'd throw it for him (he was so ball focused he would completely ignore the dog he would normally have a go at - I encouraged play with a ball over the years as part of training as when he was a pup he couldn't care less for a ball).

re the ball thing - I take more than one out with me so they keep coming back to keep the game moving

[AlanT]

Try scent working. I began by marking a trail with a treat on my patio. Gradually I made the marking more vague.

Now I can put a ball anywhere and he finds it. There is a video on here of him working like this.

This provides a stong mental challenge and lots of running about but does not require route-marches in the countryside.

Anytime I want him to ignore anything I only have to take the ball from my pocket. He'll juts lock onto it and the rest of the world vanishes.

[lescef]

I would try asking for an alternative behaviour, rather than let him bark. Will he do a 'watch' as you walk? As soon as you see a dog get him to watch you,  holding a treat if necessary, until the dog has gone. Scenting, as mentioned is also good. If a dog is heading our way on lead, and we can't escape, I throw kibble in the grass and get them to sniff it out, and they often don't notice the dog!  Throwing the ball to get distance is good. It's important you don't let him practice the behaviour you don't like, or they just get better at it!
As suggested, take two balls out.

[theoldfella]

Thanks for the replies and advice.

Early days but working him seems to be the probable answer, he now barks and looks to me to throw something the moment we get to the woods, but I want to be sure I am doing it the right way (if there is one)!

Re Alan - where would I find the video of your dog being trained/working? Couldnt locate it on a search a few minutes ago.

[Murphys Law]

Just one thing I noticed from your first post. I wouldn't throw stick for a dog to chase after, I have heard of some terrible injuries and even deaths from dogs running after sticks. It is probably very rare that this happens but I would rather be safe than sorry.

[AlanT]

The search facility on boards like this is often poor.

I must have originally posted this somewhere other than the video section.

Anyway you will now find it in Videos.

[daw]

Certainly distraction and positive reinforcement are both good. (No sticks!) But you could try to generally socialise your dog more. Can you get other people with calm dogs to walk with? Or find someone with a dog that isn't reactive that you can arrange to meet and then reward a good meeting- in other words a treat and encouragement when there's no barking or lunging? Doggy daycare may have made him feel he has to stand up for himself- after all he can't tell you if he feels intimidated or is being bullied!  He needs to be reassured he can meet strange dogs and not have to put on a show.     

[AlanT]

My boy will more or less ignore other dogs when he first meets them. Other things on his mind.

He is 2 now and will still play and chase about with other dogs if I give him a bit of encouragement.
Has a strong preference to play with other Spaniels. Really does know!

He is very self-confident and can be left alone for a while with no problem.
But he has had A LOT of intensive training since he was a 12 week pup.

Would have made a super drug-dog or similar. Likes crowds, vehicles and finding stuff.

[Pearly]

I would try asking for an alternative behaviour, rather than let him bark. Will he do a 'watch' as you walk? As soon as you see a dog get him to watch you,  holding a treat if necessary, until the dog has gone. Scenting, as mentioned is also good. If a dog is heading our way on lead, and we can't escape, I throw kibble in the grass and get them to sniff it out, and they often don't notice the dog!  Throwing the ball to get distance is good. It's important you don't let him practice the behaviour you don't like, or they just get better at it!
As suggested, take two balls out.

This is good advice - throwing crumbled treats or kibble onto the ground also ensures Tango gives off positive body language to other dogs approaching : head down appearing to sniff intently, tail up wagging like the clappers 

Pearl doesn't chase.  In fact she has very little prey drive and doesn't retrieve - I can throw as may toys, balls, dummy's or other interesting things for her and the most she will do is run to the item, pick it up, run off and drop it elsewhere! The gun dog trainers I've been to with her couldn't believe it! I don't even try with her now - except since Coral has arrived Pearl does now chase and has developed a liking to hunt  she's also back to basics on a long line.......but still won't retrieve! The top game appears to be - grab a toy from Coral, run off at high speed and drop it, for Coral to retrieve back to me 

[literaryrose]

I can't help with encouraging the retrieve, as my spaniel is not interested in toys at all (it makes agility hard as we just have to use food as she won't work for anything else); but I just wanted to add that my spaniel (3 in April) is barky when she meets other dogs. It's like she's saying hello very loudly. Whenever she sees another dog, she has to bark a few times (while also wagging her tail), perhaps to guard me. I am trying to stop this and am trying to focus her attention elsewhere (with treats) if we see another dog, but it's taking a while. She's very vocal, always has been. She's worse when I walk her on my own as I think she guards me, whereas if my husband is with us or walking her, she's fine. So it could be an element of resource guarding?

[theoldfella]

Just to update following all your replies and advice.

Early days yet but seems encouraging. Two balls - at least - he's so good at finding them, even in undergrowth. Sometimes he can't possibly see the ball land but his seeming ability to plot the trajectory from my throw is amazing. Trouble is he then just picks it up, runs off a bit, then drops it somewhere else for me to find while he chases down another one! But this game and a pocketful of kibble thrown as we walk has made me a lot more interesting, at least for now, and he is distracted from at least some of the other dogs. I'm not sure who comes home more tired though, him or me

There are so many brambles here in the woods and bracken though (and unfortunately adders in summer) that I'm not sure what I will do then but that's tomorrows problem.

Kevin

[JeffD]

Kevin to try and get him to come back to you with the ball try the 2 ball trick, throw one ball about 20 yards as soon as he picks it up show him another ball by tossing it in your hand and calling him sometimes they are so excited they forget to drop the first ball as he comes back for the next throw. If he brings the ball back take it and throw it, basically he only gets a retrieve if he brings it back. 

[AlanT]

You can bet he finds the ball by scent. I can throw a ball with the dog locked away so he cannot see.

He will find it in usually under a minute. In other words he can smell the ball from almost as far away as I can throw it.

[rubyduby]

I am on my 5th and 6th spaniel and yet to get one to return the ball, they prefer you to run after tham like silly devils. the biggest of my two sisters tends to lunge towards other dogs barking, but wouldnt bite, it is more of a fear defence attitude, and where possible if I know the other dogs are ok I will leave her off and she is less protective, and probably feels less at a disadvantage. For some reason i have never had a Cocker that didnt bark at other dogs, but never had one that wanted to bite.