Author Topic: Frantic for the scent of a deer  (Read 5021 times)

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Offline Pearly

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Re: Frantic for the scent of a deer
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2016, 11:17:15 AM »
Think you've misread the post. Only Bernie was from the constabulary! :police: I think two gamekeepers had had a go with the working cocker. Obviously they both needed Helen! :blink:

Gamekeepers generally dont have the time to train a dog; most I know run multiple dogs and rely on the young taking their lead from the older dogs, they also tend not to keep dogs with a high prey drive  ;) HMP or other agencies and organisations such as search and rescue allow a specific period of time to train dogs, if they are the aking too long and "fail" it diesnt always mean the dog cant be trained!

Offline Pearly

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Re: Frantic for the scent of a deer
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2016, 11:18:47 AM »
Where working dogs are concerned: time to train = money without return on investment!

Offline daw

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Re: Frantic for the scent of a deer
« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2016, 11:32:41 AM »
I think we're getting a bit off thread here so I'll just finish by saying my point was not every dog can be trained to robotic standards (which is why the rescue world can always provide you with a 'failed' sniffer dog, sheepdog, cattle dog guide dog, assistance dog, tracker dog, gundog etc.) and I personally am quite happy about that. Dogs are individuals.  I also worry in welfare terms about the type of training trainers who claim they can get any dog to any standard  of behaviour are using. I grew up in Wales where the old fashioned way to stop a sheepworrier was to pen it with a ram. If it survived it never went near sheep again. Job done I guess. 

Offline PennyB

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Re: Frantic for the scent of a deer
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2016, 10:49:17 PM »
I don't think anyone is suggesting that ensuring your dog has good/reliable recall makes it a robotic dog - mine have good recall and in no way was it done robotically but by perseverance (and yes my current 3 dogs are all working cockers/sprockers - 2 of which I know were from people who worked all their dogs as none of them were for pets) and a need to ensure my dogs are safe (I live in a city but have lots of green space to run my dogs in but still that green space runs into roads/railway lines/swollen river every so often)

Yes certain working dogs will fail within certain fields but that's usualy becuase they were never suited really for that particular purpose but may be suited for something else
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Four Paws Animal Rescue (South Wales)

Cockers are just hooligans in cute clothing!

Offline Helen

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Re: Frantic for the scent of a deer
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2016, 12:40:13 AM »
robots? My spaniels??? Oh that really is funny!  :lol2:

Just because I choose to train my dogs to the best of my ability and invest, as Pearly has said and does herself, an awful lot of time doing so it does not make them robots, nor are they ever badly treated while training.  You're making an awful lot of assumptions here which leads me to believe that you've not been around modern gun dog trainers who use positive methods.

What would I have done with your untrainable dog Daw?  I wouldn't have set him up to fail, I wouldn't put him in situations like pheasant cover.  If he was that uncontrollable I would have walked him somewhere else where he wouldn't have been over stimulated like that, or if it was unavoidable he would have been on a long line.    :police: :police: :police:

I don't pretend to be the worlds best trainer but I will do my best to ensure a solid recall and stop - in as many situations as I can proof - to keep my dogs safe and under control.  Among my dog owning friends that is the norm so I really am incredulous that this seems an excessive amount of training  :huh:


helen & jarvis x


Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: Frantic for the scent of a deer
« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2016, 06:30:17 AM »
Gosh!  :argue:
I bet poor BuryFCA1 is  beginning to wish he'd never asked! ;) !!

Offline rubybella

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Re: Frantic for the scent of a deer
« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2016, 08:17:56 AM »
I believe my girls are pretty well trained, we'll certainly compared to many I meet on a walk!! They will recall on the whistle and stop/wait if I ask them to in all situations, except if they flushed a rabbit or pheasant out and I wish that I could proof that better. We currently have a rabbit in our rabbit proofed field, no idea how it got in or where it is living but have spotted its poos! The dogs go barmy in there racing around after its scent, but unfortunately it has yet to show itself as would probably make good stop practice!!
As much as possible I avoid heavy game areas or put them back on lead if we go past but would be better to know that I could get them to stop on the whistle instead.

I do have one question though. Do even well trained gundogs still chase a flushed game if you haven't got the stop whistle in in time or do they have no interest in the chase ?

Offline Pearly

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Re: Frantic for the scent of a deer
« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2016, 02:25:15 PM »
I believe my girls are pretty well trained, we'll certainly compared to many I meet on a walk!! They will recall on the whistle and stop/wait if I ask them to in all situations, except if they flushed a rabbit or pheasant out and I wish that I could proof that better. We currently have a rabbit in our rabbit proofed field, no idea how it got in or where it is living but have spotted its poos! The dogs go barmy in there racing around after its scent, but unfortunately it has yet to show itself as would probably make good stop practice!!
As much as possible I avoid heavy game areas or put them back on lead if we go past but would be better to know that I could get them to stop on the whistle instead.

I do have one question though. Do even well trained gundogs still chase a flushed game if you haven't got the stop whistle in in time or do they have no interest in the chase ?

I wouldn't let he dogs go racing in the field at the moment - either a long line or under controlled hunting  ;)

The short answer to your question is no - a well trained Gundog doesn't chase anything and will stop/sit on flush - as with the springer I mentioned earlier.  It really is inspirational to see these dogs at work and I guess it's the difference between pets - where the expectation is a well behaved dog in most situations / avoid situations where they are not trained to deal with them - and working dogs - where they are expected to be trained and behave in a consistent manner.

If the dog flushes *n then it should stop and wait for instruction and to be honest - it shouldn't need the stop whistle at all - it is hours of repetitive training and a bit of genetics that get the dog and handler to this standard! I can't do it without professional advice hence attending training days and 1-2-1 sessions...

* insert from the following: cats, deer, rabbits, hares, pheasants, ducks, mice, squirrels etc....

Offline Helen

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Re: Frantic for the scent of a deer
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2016, 08:42:04 AM »
You're right, they should eventually be conditioned so their bums hit the floor without a whistle (one day :lol2:) but in the cases of the dogs above - who I think the owners want to get to a stage where they can stop and recall a dog  (and in the case of deer in our instance) the stop whistle and recall can be invaluable - and it's probably a level most people want to get to  ;)
helen & jarvis x


Offline Mudmagnets

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Re: Frantic for the scent of a deer
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2016, 08:52:42 AM »
You're right, they should eventually be conditioned so their bums hit the floor without a whistle (one day :lol2:) but in the cases of the dogs above - who I think the owners want to get to a stage where they can stop and recall a dog  (and in the case of deer in our instance) the stop whistle and recall can be invaluable - and it's probably a level most people want to get to  ;)

Yes think you are right. For most - including me, I think it is mainly bunnies, birds and danger ( water etc.) that I  need to use stop/recall for.
Remembering Smudge 23/11/2006 - 3/8/2013, and Branston 30/8/14 - 28/10/22 both now at the Bridge.

Offline JeffD

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Re: Frantic for the scent of a deer
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2016, 09:35:24 PM »
Just in time for this thread Teal flushed a  Fallow doe up at a very wet and windy Mamhead forest today, amazeballs she only chased for 20yards or so, coming back on recall. I don't know who was surprised the doe or me. All that work on stopping to flushed rabbits has paid off.

Its a pity I am not able to shoot over Teal due to my health I think she would have made a first class gun dog.
Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly

Offline Pearly

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Re: Frantic for the scent of a deer
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2016, 10:56:09 PM »
Just in time for this thread Teal flushed a  Fallow doe up at a very wet and windy Mamhead forest today, amazeballs she only chased for 20yards or so, coming back on recall. I don't know who was surprised the doe or me. All that work on stopping to flushed rabbits has paid off.

Its a pity I am not able to shoot over Teal due to my health I think she would have made a first class gun dog.

Good girl Teal  :D and even better to read you've been out in areas with deer - hope that means you are feeling a lot better?

Offline JeffD

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Re: Frantic for the scent of a deer
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2016, 11:29:58 PM »
Much better than I was thanks Pearly, just not well enough to do a days shooting or beating. I can manage an hour or 2 on flat ground and I will settle for that.
Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly

Offline *Marie*

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Re: Frantic for the scent of a deer
« Reply #43 on: February 23, 2016, 11:22:17 AM »
Bracken only went to Gun dog training a few times and that was when he was only six months, not long enough to for any real training, he's steady around pheasants, rabbits, deer and birds, his recall is excellent he has only given chase once when a deer jumped out in front of us but as soon as the whistle was blown he came straight back! Only thing I can think of was when he was only 16 weeks and started to chase birds I took the time to train him first on line to focus on me and not the birds, then moving on to off lead! So I think there is hope if you teach from an early stage and always be one step ahead of them!

Offline AlanT

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Re: Frantic for the scent of a deer
« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2016, 12:21:40 PM »
Cheer up it could be worse. One of my walking mates has an 11 year-old pointer.

He brought the Muntjac back home with him!