Grain free food and Dilated Cardiomyopathy

[tritonx]

I'm not sure if I'm supposed to post on this thread as I'm no longer a cocker owner, but I do have a question about the 'grain free' and 'danger of heart disease' camps. My vet strongly recommended that I should not go with what gets called the 'boutique dog foods', grain free, lot of meat and fish protein and veggies including pulses, peas and chick peas. She gave me a link that discusses the possible link between diet and a kind of heart disease. It seems to be emerging research that hasn't yet tracked down the exact factors that result in Dilated Cardiomyopathy. I see a Guardian article linked on another thread about this issue. My pup was sent to me from the breeder with a package of dried raw food, chicken, pork, little dried fish, berries, and other green type flakes, no grains from a Canadian company. So presumably one of the 'boutique' foods the vet is referring to. However, the vet cites these reports about the possible dietary link between grain free foods and heart disease and recommends instead the ones you usually get at vet clinics-Royal Canin, Eukanuba, Hills Science diet. I feel caught between the breeders who strongly recommend the grain free, high protein, and presumably pulses, peas and chick peas food and my vet who says steer away from that kind of food. Of course, I want to do what's best for the pup, but find these opposite directions hopelessly confusing. Has anyone else on this site had the same contradictory advice and what did you do? Fraser, my cocker spaniel, was on Royal Canin for most of his life and the issue never came up as I was just following vet advice.

[bizzylizzy]

Hi, congratulations on your new puppy, I do remember your posts about Fraser last year, it was a very traumatic time so I do hope your new addition will help fill that cocker shaped gap. 
I remember the Guardian article although I haven’t heard or read any further discussions on the topic.
It is indeed a dilema and all the different opinions regarding the correct diet doesn’t just involve dogs, we seem to be constantly warned about something or other only to find 12 months down the line the experts have changed their minds (coffee, butter, eggs, the list goes on). I am not always convinced that the clinical research is not biased and unfortunately it seems an awful lot of  professional recommendations and warning are probably made with a thought to the financial gain.
What you also maybe need to consider is, how experienced is the breeder, is she someone who has been breeding for years and has a lot of knowledge maybe thorough dog breeding circles etc or is she basing her opinion on articles she‘s read ? Its maybe worth thinking about the breed too, is it one which is particularly susceptible to heart conditions?
I admit I worried a lot about Humphrey’s food as a puppy and ended up with raw because it enabled me to mix it myself and offer more variety, so some days he gets grain, somedays not, he‘ll get cooked potato or something similar. Having sad that however, I never gave much thought to what my previous dogs were fed, it was usually dried food mixed with Pedigree Chum (horror of horrors these days apparently but I wasn’t aware of any negativity at the time ) and whatever leftovers I had, and they both lived  to 15. 
If you were happy with Royal Canin and your vet is also and most importantly your new pup is happy and healthy on it, then I‘d be inclined to stick with that.
Best of luck, whatever you decide and here’s wishing you many many happy years together!!
 

[tritonx]

Hello again, bizzylizzie  The last time we talked was while my poor Fraser was going through the end of life situation and his death. I don't think I'll ever not have tears in my eyes when I talk about him. Newpup (Jamie) is a going concern. Life exactly like a mum with new baby. There is little life outside feeding, toileting, training, keeping up with the things they get into. I posted on the Puppy thread about a danger from the lugs on crates that join top to bottom. But puppy food--I had intended to transfer pup over to Arcana or Origen puppy food, both grain free and wide variety of proteins, veggies and fruits and various beans. The warning my vet attached to the vaccination/health report was very explicit in her recommendations not use grain free foods because of those diets being associated with the development of heart disease. I always go with evidence and science when claims are made and I assume vets are science driven (though that's not always true in individual cases). And I know there are interests involved in both side, vets having commercial relationships with food companies, Royal Canin etc., but also on the other side marketing toward the current interest in one ingredient, pure forms of food. Gahhh! As you say, dogs used to thrive on all sorts of food now considered not optimum. Each side of the grains okay/heart disease is so adamant about their claims.

[makenna]

I haven't read recent studies, but I think they had landed on concerns with grain free kibble being that companies were using other things to make up for the grains, like potatoes and peas, and that the imbalance with those was causing problems.

I don't personally feed grain free because most dogs don't really need a high level of protein (sometimes it can be detrimental, too) and my dog does really well on a grain inclusive food. I also think sometimes that boutique foods rely on a lot of buzzwords to sell their product, but I personally feel more comfortable feeding a food that has undergone a lot of feeding trials (even though I don't like the large company in itself). They'll also tell you that vets make money pushing certain foods - but I don't buy my food at the vet's office, so the only one making money is the store I'm purchasing from.

[tritonx]

Yes, the competing interests muddies the water. The big companies do have the extensive testing and development over the years with their products and the grain free, one ingredient, less processed ‘boutique’ food companies market to the general trend of trying to eat healthily from high quality, ethically sourced, less processed food. Still haven’t made up my mind.  as with practically every other part of life, I’m longing for simpler times

[phoenix]

This article explains the research in plain english.
https://todaysveterinarypractice.com/news/study-grain-free-diet-for-dogs-leads-to-canine-heart-disease/
So some dogs have cardiopathy from genetic backgrounds,  but  the  recent ‘surge’ is diet related.  Too many pulses and potatoes. The article is referring to ‘boutique’ foods A good point is that trendy  diets pour scorn on meat by-products.  These are the highly nutritious organ meats , gelatinous and calcium poultry feet, fur and feather.  Then they also advertise the minute pinch of herbs  as being beneficial.
All diets need to balanced,  and all are to legal standards.
I tried trendy foods .  But my son has the glossiest,  healthiest dog,  fed since a  pup on
Butchers tripe mix varieties, some grainfree and others not .  So I followed suit,  with slim healthy dogs.