CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Puppies => Topic started by: Mandymlc on May 16, 2016, 08:02:52 PM
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I need some advice on how to deal with my puppy's biting habit. She's 14 weeks old and is a gorgeous girl who's super quick to learn and very good in most ways - except she won't stop biting! It's not aggressive but it gets worse when she gets wound up and she's drawn blood on a few occasions. It's more than mouthing and is accompanied by jumping up and shouty barking if I ignore her. She doesn't rip things up (yet!) but she loves chewing - beds, toys, sticks, stones, everything.
She bites when I try to put her collar on and gets frustrated the longer it takes, rolling around on the floor and gnawing at my fingers. She bites at her lead and jumps up the back of my legs when we're walking. I totally understand that this is excitement and she may grow out of it, but it's making going for walks very difficult right now. The worst though is that because of her biting, I'm really only able to stroke and cuddle her properly when she's half asleep! Putting your hands down to stroke her results in her nipping at your hand or putting her mouth round your wrist. Going down to her level means she jumps up and tries to bite - she's caught me on the face a few times. Telling her off just makes her bark back, ignoring her makes her jump up more. She used to be quite clingy when she was little but now she's much more confident and it feels like she's challenging for the authority in the household.
I'm getting frustrated but I'm more concerned about her hurting other people.! She's so adorable and I want to do right by her - I just don't know what that is! :012: Any advice is gratefully received!
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oh dear, you have a cockerdile (heard of Jekyll and Hide) Similar thing . Afraid it is part of her growing up and learning. Shortly you will be bombarded with replies of COLers going through the same thing . Main remedies are wellies, steel gloves and plenty of vino ;)
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oh dear, and its not just a cocker thing - my Fieldie Martha is much the same at 13 weeks ph34r
I keep telling myself it'll pass soon :luv:
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For cuddles, I taught Henry he always had to have a toy in his mouth. Even to this day, he scrambles off for a toy when he wants to say hello. This means you can cuddle without the teeth getting involved.
At 14 weeks your little one is at a perfect age to start teaching 'go to your mat'. I found an excellent video on YouTube, I'll have a look for the link. When Henry would attach himself to my ankles / apron / trousers while I was cooking in the evening, this command was a godsend. It gave him something to focus on and calmed him down.
On walks, have you tried dangling a toy or treat just in front of you on the side you want her to walk on? Something to get her focus might help.
Yes, she WILL grow out of this, and probably quite soon, but there are things you can do in the meantime. Good luck!
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I'm glad you all feel it's an age thing and she'll grow out of it - I just want to make sure I'm reacting in the right way and at least attempting to reduce it if I can't stop it completely! She's so good in every other way - only ever had a few wee's in the house, asks to go out when she needs to go, sleeps through the night - she's very busy and is happy to amuse herself (albeit ripping twigs off my lavender bush!) and is such a happy puppy - she does have her crazy five minutes though where I wonder if she's not half Tasmanian devil! Her favourite thing right now is to flip her dog bed over and run around underneath it crashing into legs and furniture! :005:
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Here's the video. She also has a good one on training puppies not to grab at your clothes. Doesn't entirely stop it, but helps!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJGIpd3ptgs&list=PL39rA__veYgR4EvJoPQhwRlxZmW5H3IEm&index=25 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJGIpd3ptgs&list=PL39rA__veYgR4EvJoPQhwRlxZmW5H3IEm&index=25)
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Some good advice but the best thing I've found is just to do a really high pitched squeak of pain when nipped. Puppies learn with their mouths and don't know they are hurting unless you react the way another puppy would if bitten. It's part of developing the bite inhibit mechanism. And yes it does get better but you need her to know that she can hurt you.
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Monty behaves in exactly the same way (he's 12 weeks), perfectly normal (albeit painful at times!) puppy behaviour. Regarding the collar, I get him to sit quietly and say "calm" (his cue word for curbing exuberant behaviour), it does take a few seconds for him to be calm enough for me to pop collar on but it's getting quicker each time! I use high pitched squeak noise when he bites too hard, however depending on his mood, this can sometimes make him more excited so I just stop playing with him and walk away. (I can't wait for this "lovely" part of puppyhood to be over >:D :lol2:
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The squeal didn't seem to work for us either, so I walked away. When I couldn't (say if we were in the kitchen and I was cooking) that's when I'd get him to 'go to his mat'.
I'd forgotten about the collar thing! Henry would nip and fall to the floor, wriggling on his back. Used to drive me NUTS. We found a biscuit treat that took him just long enough to eat to get the collar on, if we were quick. At some point he just stopped doing it. This thread has reminded me how far we've come since those early puppy days. Everything passes.
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Yes, I think that too - sometimes you have to look at what they've learned rather than what they haven't (yet! ;))
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Londongirl that's exactly what Effie does - she tries to bite the collar and my hands then does crocodile (cockerdile??) rolls on the floor. I've been asking her to sit beforehand but inevitably it ends up taking ages to get her collar on, by which point she's thoroughly overexcited and I've given up trying to make her sit. Will definitely try the treat beforehand as a distraction next time!
I definitely agree bizzylizzy, she has learned so much that I sort of take that for granted and only think about the current naughty behaviour - having read some of the posts on COL I can see that although not an angel, she's not a complete devil either! >:D
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Ah! For the miracle that is squeezy cheese in a tube...... Dab a bit on the floor just before <insert>
Where <insert> equals put collar on, groom, body/feet check, ears check etc :lol:
Its just 12 months since Coral went through this phase. I found it very much easier with her but that was mainly due to her focus and teeth being on Pearl :005: not me......
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Ah! I remember I joined this forum for exactly that problem and now we have the most wonderful natured dog who has just turned a year old. Keep at it the end result is worth it.
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This stage is the worst and as someone said to me at the time: It seems like the worst thing in the world at the time and feels like it's never going to end but it will.
Everything you said is exactly what Lola used to do too but it does pass, you might just have to bleed a little more first ;)
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I'm so glad to read this, it's unbelievable as it's so like what i'm experiencing it's almost like i wrote it myself!
I'm glad people are saying she'll grow out of it as apart from the 5 minutes of craziness she is so adorable and kind.
Also when driving with her she is so calm that sometimes i wish i could always be in the car with her! Never any crazy nipping when she's in the car (im glad!!) I'll let you know when she out grows this (soon i hope)
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I'm so glad to read this, it's unbelievable as it's so like what i'm experiencing it's almost like i wrote it myself!
I'm glad people are saying she'll grow out of it as apart from the 5 minutes of craziness she is so adorable and kind.
Also when driving with her she is so calm that sometimes i wish i could always be in the car with her! Never any crazy nipping when she's in the car (im glad!!) I'll let you know when she out grows this (soon i hope)
That's something to be VERY grateful for - so many of us on here have had problems with barking, whining or "singing" in the car, - (its taken us months to get Humphrey to stay calm). Whatever problems we have, there's always someone with worse ones!!!! :005:
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We've all been there , Ernie was a very bitey puppy , we often referred to him as the land shark :005: :005:... I can laugh about it now but at the time it was hard work . He's now the most gentle laid back spaniel , so you'll get there .
Re grabbing & jumping up at your clothes, I spent a lot of time in leggings & fitted jeans ,my wide leg linen trousers & wide leg pj bottoms did not see the light of day whilst Ernie was small as he found them particularly exciting & would hang off them . Cardigans were out for a while too :005:
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I have recently rediscovered a lovely cardigan I bought just before we got Henry and quickly abandoned. Wearing it now, unmolested!
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We are currently having very similar problems with our 18week old boy Charlie. He has always done exactly what you have explained with the collar- got round this by freezing peanut butter on a wooden spoon and laying it down in front of him- didn't give the collar a thought. We have since moved on to a harness because he is a bit pulley on walks and are struggling with ways to get this on without a bit of a war. He was extremely bitey when we first got him but it has eased of significantly in recent weeks. The rolling on his back and laying into our hands does worry me a bit though as he has done it twice when I have tried putting him back on his lead over the park. And he recently done it when my partner tried taking a mat which he was chewing away from him after telling him "no". I'm not sure how we should be reacting in this situation?
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The best advice I can give is to look at Kikopup on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c77--cCHPyU
She has so many good videos on a range of behaviours (I'm currently going through the calmness one for my older WSS).
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I joined the forum hoping to discuss this problem. Branston is 15 weeks old and biting everything possible. He goes to puppy class and is very good doing sit, down, stay and come and behaves at school. However, he asks to come up on your knee and then bites your arm, hand, anything he can get his teeth into. We have tried screaming and high pitched noises but this just seems to add to his axcitement and biting. We find that putting him outside to chill out for a while eventually calms him down. So pleased to read that this faze will pass.
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since my previous post i have started always using the sit/wait command for a treat whilst putting harness and lead on and have had really big success with this, no destroying my hands. I have taught this command over many weeks though and its a god send. With the general play biting i find its now mainly when Charlie is tired, or needs some mental stimulation. If he is tired i will take myself away and he will generally go off to sleep, for mental stimulation I have found the game 'find it' absolutely superb, he absolutely loves hunting around for kibble and it tires him out no end. For people who want to play with no biting, teach your puppy this game. Charlie is 5 months though, and it has taken a lot of time for constant biting stage to really calm down. Keep with it people. :D
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Penny is almost four. I well remember having bite marks all over my arms when she was a puppy. It was so physically painful to try to fend off those constant puppy bites that it was unpleasant to play with her.
Don't worry, it really will all resolve itself. I found the best thing was to sit down on the floor at her level, insert a toy into her mouth and get her to play fetch or the even more attractive game of "let's try to destroy this object". Her teeth would be firmly planted in the toy, not in me!
Nowadays if she starts rough play I just say "penny go find a toy" and she rushes off to rummage around in her toy box - actually she has three toy boxes at different locations in the house and it wears her out a bit just making the choice-she brings me back whatever is her current favourite so we can play fetch or other games with it. It's quite endearing really.
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I really appreciate reading other people's views on this problem. Some days, I feel like giving him to a dog home to find someone who can cope with him. He is 16 weeks old now and this week at puppy class he had forgotten all he had learnt. At home he keeps urinating on the hall carpet and on the kitchen floor. We feel as if we are wasting our time. Branston is apparently at a teenaged phase now so we are told and so we have been advised to go back to square one with everything. He attacks us, especially my husbands feet, slippers, hands and legs and occasionally my legs. Think we will have to get a cage for him in the car as he goes wild in the front and bites. How long will this last? Not until he is 4?? Dont think we will still be together by then. We have had cocker spaniels before but nothing like this. He also has separation anxiety. We leave him for 30 minutes in his crate every day so far but he barks and whines. Please help us to keep him!
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Please read my early posts, you will see I had exactly the same problems with Meg! 3 years on and she is the most wonderful dog ever. it will get better, it just takes time :bigarmhug:
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I really appreciate reading other people's views on this problem. Some days, I feel like giving him to a dog home to find someone who can cope with him. He is 16 weeks old now and this week at puppy class he had forgotten all he had learnt. At home he keeps urinating on the hall carpet and on the kitchen floor. We feel as if we are wasting our time. Branston is apparently at a teenaged phase now so we are told and so we have been advised to go back to square one with everything. He attacks us, especially my husbands feet, slippers, hands and legs and occasionally my legs. Think we will have to get a cage for him in the car as he goes wild in the front and bites. How long will this last? Not until he is 4?? Dont think we will still be together by then. We have had cocker spaniels before but nothing like this. He also has separation anxiety. We leave him for 30 minutes in his crate every day so far but he barks and whines. Please help us to keep him!
I don't think he's in his teenage phase at 16 weeks. He's at peak 'cockerdile' though, with the biting. It is such a pain (quite literally) and I really found my patience tested at this age. Teething will have a lot to do with it - starts at about four months. Cooling chews you can put in the freezer help. Henry chewed on ice to relieve his gums. I remember being utterly fed up with him one day, with his nipping and neediness, then found blood on the toy we'd been playing tug with. He was cutting one of his big teeth and it was driving him mad.
How do you have him restrained in the car? We've always had Henry in a crate in the boot and while he hasn't always been a happy passenger, he's safe there.
It does sound as if he's a bit late in getting the hang of housetraining, but I'm sure some people here have had the same experience. You do just have to keep up with the basics.
With the separation anxiety, you might need to find out it is that or the crate that's the issue. We have been lucky with Henry on both counts but I know other COLers have experience of issues with both and will be more than happy to share their experiences.
Good luck - it WILL get better! Early days still.
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Thanks very much for your helpful reply. Branston has been particularly bad today but we will keep trying.
We will take your advice and put him in a crate in the boot of the car. He sleeps in his bed in a large crate at night and is no problem through the night.
When we leave him in the house we leave him in his crate in the kitchen. Do you think there is a better way to leave him?
Will try again with the toilet training.
Thanks again
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I wonder if he is directly associating being in the crate during the day with being left alone? Does he go in the crate any other time than when you go out and at night? Henry sleeps in his crate during the day as well. Sometimes I'm still around in the kitchen where he can see me, sometimes I'm somewhere else in the house, sometimes I'm out. So he doesn't know when I'm actually out rather than just somewhere he can't see, and I might pop up at any time. That has worked for us, but every dog is different. I'm no expert, not even on my own demon dog :lol:
You do have my sympathy. If it's any help, I remember some times when he was especially difficult being followed by real developmental leaps. Sometimes I think their little brains are firing all over the place when specific developments are going on. Bad stretches are often followed by calmer ones (for a little while at least!), in my experience. It's a rollercoaster.
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Your tone is almost frantic... This sounds like a very anxious little boy and obviously you are tense over the situation as well. So take a deep breath and tell yourself this is a young puppy that's come into your home and can still be a joy. :blink:
OK. For a start try not to compare him with your other cockers- I've had four in all, all very different. This one I guess is a sensitive soul- and I know you find that hard to take when it seems he's being 'aggressive.' But puppies have only one thing to express their feelings with- the mouth. The more confused and wound up he becomes the more he resorts to it. He isn't so much trying to get a reaction out of you as use up his own adrenalin. One thing to try is just giving him a totally calm environment. Calm people equals calm dog usually. Ignore him if you're able especially when he's doing what you don't want. Make sure there are always plenty of other surfaces to take his feeling out on instead of you! Give him things to destroy if necessary, toys, cardboard whatever. Personally I'd buy a clicker and start very short bouts of training to engage his mind, come, sit, stay etc. Minutes only with reward or praise voice.
As for the housetraining I'm not a believer in crates. A puppy pen that his bed can go into is a compromise I guess. When I left him, I'd leave him in a safe room (kitchen?)with lots of things to destroy and maybe Radio 4 on very low. Bring in a dead branch from the woods with lots of good smells on for him to sniff and chew. As for the puddles in the hall etc, puppies do something called submissive urination- they get a scared feeling and it's their way of showing you 'I'm little and no threat.' As he calms down and feels more trusting it should happen less and less.
Sorry for such a long post. Good luck. ;)
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I really appreciate reading other people's views on this problem. Some days, I feel like giving him to a dog home to find someone who can cope with him. He is 16 weeks old now and this week at puppy class he had forgotten all he had learnt. At home he keeps urinating on the hall carpet and on the kitchen floor. We feel as if we are wasting our time. Branston is apparently at a teenaged phase now so we are told and so we have been advised to go back to square one with everything. He attacks us, especially my husbands feet, slippers, hands and legs and occasionally my legs. Think we will have to get a cage for him in the car as he goes wild in the front and bites. How long will this last? Not until he is 4?? Dont think we will still be together by then. We have had cocker spaniels before but nothing like this. He also has separation anxiety. We leave him for 30 minutes in his crate every day so far but he barks and whines. Please help us to keep him!
It does sound as if he's a bit late in getting the hang of housetraining, but I'm sure some people here have had the same experience. You do just have to keep up with the basics.
Not really as it can take up to 6 months for a dog to be completely housetrained - there are no hard and fast rules as to times/milestones really. Plus unfortunately if you clean up with certain things it leaves a residue of their urine - you won't smell it but he will - I use something like a bio-based soap (powder/liquid bio in warm not too hot water) then use disinfectant if need be
It will happen but may not just yet
Just as with the other things all pups or dogs no matter the breed or gender and patience is something one needs
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I really appreciate reading other people's views on this problem. Some days, I feel like giving him to a dog home to find someone who can cope with him. He is 16 weeks old now and this week at puppy class he had forgotten all he had learnt. At home he keeps urinating on the hall carpet and on the kitchen floor. We feel as if we are wasting our time. Branston is apparently at a teenaged phase now so we are told and so we have been advised to go back to square one with everything. He attacks us, especially my husbands feet, slippers, hands and legs and occasionally my legs. Think we will have to get a cage for him in the car as he goes wild in the front and bites. How long will this last? Not until he is 4?? Dont think we will still be together by then. We have had cocker spaniels before but nothing like this. He also has separation anxiety. We leave him for 30 minutes in his crate every day so far but he barks and whines. Please help us to keep him!
It does sound as if he's a bit late in getting the hang of housetraining, but I'm sure some people here have had the same experience. You do just have to keep up with the basics.
Not really as it can take up to 6 months for a dog to be completely housetrained - there are no hard and fast rules as to times/milestones really. Plus unfortunately if you clean up with certain things it leaves a residue of their urine - you won't smell it but he will - I use something like a bio-based soap (powder/liquid bio in warm not too hot water) then use disinfectant if need be
It will happen but may not just yet
Just as with the other things all pups or dogs no matter the breed or gender and patience is something one needs
You're right, Penny, and I shouldn't generalise based on my own experience.
We used Simple Solution Odour Removing Spray for dogs from Pets At Home to clean up accidents. It comes in two formations, one for hard floors and one for carpets and is designed to stop re-marking. Just for speed and convenience we find it really effective.
Daw - you made some really good points there. We had a few episodes of submissive urination with Henry when he was feeling unsure.
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Hope things start to improve soon for you, 16 weeks is just a puppy and to be honest doesn't sound that unusual. Probably key is to stay very calm and don't let your frustration transfer back to the pup. Martha is the same age and can still wee a bit in excitement or submission - she will even wee in her pen and rip newspapers up in frustration when she hasn't got her own way or has been particularly bitey and got a 'time out'. She generally collapses asleep after naughty episodes. We just grin and bear it with a large glass of vino and think of how lovely and cuddly she will be when she wakes up :luv:
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I think someone mentioned 'disinfectant'? PLEASE be careful...anything chlorine-based is really not good- gets onto puppy feet, ends up inside puppy. It's toxic. My vet also said anything that turns white when you add it to water shouldn't be used around dogs let alone puppies. Definitely try PAT for dog-friendly products.
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Since starting this post nearly four weeks ago, there's been a marked difference in effie's behaviour - she still jumps and bites but it's much less than it was. She's not as needy now and is happy to go on ahead at walks rather than running up my heels - in fact she bites at the lead in her excitement to be off! She's able to entertain herself much more and has become more respectful when told to stop jumping up - learning to sit and lie down has helped enormously as I get her to do this now and it both distracts and focuses her attention.
We've been going to puppy training classes for the last four weeks and one of the trainers told me on Tuesday that Effie was a credit to me and she's a lovely confident little dog - I can't tell you how much this meant to me after the initial struggles we had. It just goes to show that even in a short time their behaviour can change so much, and although it feels like a struggle now, it really is all worth it. Watching Effie race into a stream at 100 miles an hour, dunk her head underwater and pick up a rock then come charging back out to jump all over me is the best feeling :021:
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Sounds like she's training you well. Enjoy the puppy stage, it soon passes. X
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An update on Branston. We have managed to solve the housetraining and have had no accidents for about a week now. He was 4 months old on 7th June and has two more weeks left at puppy classes. He is easily distracted at the class but at home he will sit, stay, come and go down. His main problem still is biting. He can be OK for most of the morning then all of a sudden he will go into bite mode, biting hands, feet slippers, legs anything he can get into his teeth. If you say no he answers back and snarls and bars his teeth. He rolls over so that you can't get hold of him to control the biting. The only solution at the moment seems to be putting him outside into the garden to calm down for a few minutes. We have been given advice from many dog trainers and experts who differ in their views and we have tried all their ideas but to no avail. I know we are told to be calm but this is difficult when he is biting viciously at hands or feet. Last week at the dog training, the instructor actually held him by the scruff and held his mouth shut and said no to stop him but it took several repetitions of this to have any effect. Any more ideas we can try? He sleeps all night in his crate in the bedroom without a problem and we can leave him in his crate in the kitchen for up to 2 hours now without a problem so things are improving. It's just the biting!
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All I can say is that they DO grow out of it, and at four months you don't have too long to go. I remember the snarling and rolling on the back. I don't think it's 'answering back' as such. Cockers are quite sensitive. I can't tell Henry off by raising my voice - he backs up, growls or barks, butt in the air, head low. He's not being aggressive, he's upset. Took me a while to realise this (not that I shouted at him often, but puppies do sometimes drive you insane!).
The rolling on the floor and growling with biting sounds like he's trying to initiate play. It's a frustrating age - for him as well as you - when he finds it hard to entertain himself and doesn't understand why you aren't always ready or available to play. A quick time out in the garden is something I used to do too, just to let everyone calm down. And persist with redirecting play to things other than your person! Our best toys at this age were really long tuggy toys. Played with gently, it gives him something he's allowed to bite and play growl at, and saves your hands.
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All I can say is that they DO grow out of it, and at four months you don't have too long to go. I remember the snarling and rolling on the back. I don't think it's 'answering back' as such. Cockers are quite sensitive. I can't tell Henry off by raising my voice - he backs up, growls or barks, butt in the air, head low. He's not being aggressive, he's upset. Took me a while to realise this (not that I shouted at him often, but puppies do sometimes drive you insane!).
The rolling on the floor and growling with biting sounds like he's trying to initiate play. It's a frustrating age - for him as well as you - when he finds it hard to entertain himself and doesn't understand why you aren't always ready or available to play. A quick time out in the garden is something I used to do too, just to let everyone calm down. And persist with redirecting play to things other than your person! Our best toys at this age were really long tuggy toys. Played with gently, it gives him something he's allowed to bite and play growl at, and saves your hands.
Absolutely! This is a young puppy trying to adjust and cope. Most behaviour in dogs is anxiety induced- yes even biting. It seems your puppy is going in the right direction and really trying to trust you so enjoy the small triumphs. It gets better- and it's easy to get trapped into concentrating on the negatives. I had a really challenging puppy and found I needed to let go a bit and get some fun out of the chaos and anarchy that had taken over our house. Sadly it's soon over. :'( When he was a staid middle aged dog I'd have loved Mr Crazy back.
Just on another point I'm really shocked a 'trainer' would grab a puppy's mouth and hold it shut. This is counter-productive behaviour and teaches a dog a terrible lesson: human hands are weapons that can hurt and overpower you. Really not good.
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I agree with Daw. This trainer does not sound like the type I would want to work with. His methods could do more harm than good.
It's a trying time and you have my sympathy. My boy Archie was a NIGHTMARE biter as a pup. I had puppies before him but not in the same league as him. It took time and consistency but even he grew out of it. One thing I found that worked to calm him down was putting a baby gate in the doorway of the lounge. I had him on a houseline most of the time and if he was in a biting frenzy I would quietly lead him out of the room (often with him trying to bite my ugg boots.....I lived in ugg boots) and I shut him behind the gate and went and sat down, totally ignoring him. Once he was quiet, I let him back in. I often had to repeat this many, many times but because he could see me through the bars he was able to see, and therefore seemed to pick up on the fact, that what I wanted to be doing was just sitting quietly watching TV or reading or whatever. Once he settled down he could stay in the room with me. The houseline was just a very light puppy lead and meant that I never had to try to pick him up or get my hands near his bitey mouth. He wore it almost all the time as a puppy.