Homework!

[Cob-Web]

I have come away from Agility classes with the advice that I should significantly reduce the number of verbal commands I use 

I am always very careful not to keep repeating a command, but I do command him at each jump/obstacle     I tried a run without "talking" to him (just using hand signals) and the difference was AMAZING  Molo stayed focused nearly all the way around, and when I lost his focus briefly once, a single "COME" from me and he was at my side immediately 

I am intending to try and transfer this into day to day life as well - I know that I tell him what I want him to do most of the time, combined with hand signals, and so this week I am going to make an effort to just use my hands 

Has anyone done this - and if so, was it successful? What should I be looking out for?  It makes sense to me that Molo should become more focused on me, as he has to look at me for cues - and any verbal cues I do use will become more effective......but what are the downsides? Could it effect the bond between us; could he begin to ignore me?

[debbie321]

In Ben's first puppy class - we were told not to repeat a command but just wait until they did it!  He gave an example of waiting to cross the road and an owner saying sit- sit- sit .................  until the dog did it.  This just reinforced that the dog didn't have to do it first time.

I now say things once and often have to wait until he's exhausted all possibilities so that he hits the right one!  In agility it's hard not to repeat commands due to me!  When I get him to wait I seem to tell him 1/2 dozen times (OK maybe 2 or 3) but it's still too much    If I do go further with agility then I'm going to have to get myself in order 

As for hand signals in everyday life - I do use these with Ben.  Our clicker course taught us and the pups to use hand signals only before introducing a cue word.  Ben still does sit, down, wait, stop and spin with hand signals only.  It hasn't affected his bond with me at all - just the opposite!  He now watches me far more intently 

[leisl]

I am reading this with interest.  What signals are you using as I would love to expand on our repetoir.

It looks amazing when it works, you must be chuffed to bits.  Team effort, well done.

R's

[Cayley]

I'm not very good with consistency of words, in training I'm fine, in competition I say all sorts of different things. My word for the contact in training is 'stop', my word for the contact in competition is usually 'steady, you stop, down, stay, wait'  . 

[Cob-Web]

I am reading this with interest.  What signals are you using as I would love to expand on our repetoir.

It involves a lot of pointing 

I point up to the sky (at a slight angle towards the jump, not straight up over my head) for "OVER" a hurdle. I point directly at the entrance contact points of the walk and A-frame and use a flat hand in front of him for the exit contact points 

I point with an arm straight and parallel to the ground for the tunnel entrance  I am working towards hands clasped behind my back for the weaves, but that is a few weeks away 

[Spangle]

I've done this a little with mine at home.  For us, pointing downwards is sit, flat palm downwards is down, flat palm towards the dog for stay, fingers open like claws for wait etc.  If we need a command I just use it once, as 9.999 times out of 10 the dog heard you the first time, giving a small cough if we need a little reminder. 

In agility we have the additional help of it being all about body language, the dog reads our body for where to go next.  Some of the best courses we have run have been in total silence, just making the most of communicating using the body.  Your body language overules a verbal command, which is a good job if you're like me and get your lefts and rights muddled on a complex course.  Never used to, but have done a couple of times recently.  Must be an age thing!  

[crazyspaniels]

what happens when you have a tunnel under a dog walk, if you remove a clear tunnel word then your dog needs to look to you for confirmation of what obstacle to take (assuming your dog is working on from you). The tunnel is one I am very clear about because I want my dogs to work on from a jump into a tunnel without turning back to see what obstacle they need to take?? Same goes for the weave, if you have a jump weave you command weave as early as possible to get the dog looking for the weave from the landing point??

[Spangle]

The voice isn't totally redundant, you still use it for getting their attention, ie if you have sent them through a tunnel and then changed sides you could use it whilst they are in the tunnel, so they know where to go as they come out and you get a sharper turn etc.   I do usually still use my voice anyway, I find it hard not to!!  

For a tunnel under an a-frame; if your voice says tunnel and your body is saying a-frame - the dog will go over the a-frame.  A lot of what the dog reads from our body language, we are not even aware of.  That's why it is very useful to get someone to video us, so we can see just what we are doing.  

So for instance, if the dog is on my left coming head on to an a-frame with tunnel entrance on the right, you could turn your shoulders right and send your dog towards the tunnel.  Although alternatively what I might do is turn slightly towards him with my right arm tucked into my waist, thus dropping my right shoulder; which will pull him towards me, then immediately pick up with my left arm using an underarm motion sending him to the tunnel (pehaps similar to throwing a bowling ball).  Timing and position are the key!  Interestingly dogs pick up on the signals we unconsciously give, so before we have actually done as above, he will have it sussed.
 
If you can imagine your body language from the dog's perspective had you wanted the dog to go up the a-frame, would have been very different, much more upright, and to the left.  

Working as a partnership the dog doesn't have to be looking at you to read your body language. Try it and see how you get on.  

[leisl]

Oh, this is a bit posh for us.  We have finger up for sit, flat hand from left to right for down, arms open for come.  palm to dog for stay.  I am now working on a signal for, get your backside out of one of your many smelly beds and push the hoover round for a change!

Seriously, I cannot get her to jump over things.  I have started saying HupHup when she gets on the bed or the sofa and then try and take that command out to the field with us to get her over styles and hunt jumps.  I have also tried walking off and leaving her in the hope she will try and get over herself.  I have even cleared two fields before returning to find her sat the other side of the style waiting for me to lift her over.  Never a dog more aptly named....MUPPET!

[Cob-Web]

Seriously, I cannot get her to jump over things.  I have started saying HupHup when she gets on the bed or the sofa and then try and take that command out to the field with us to get her over styles and hunt jumps.  I have also tried walking off and leaving her in the hope she will try and get over herself.  I have even cleared two fields before returning to find her sat the other side of the style waiting for me to lift her over.  Never a dog more aptly named....MUPPET!

Molo won't do stiles - and it has taken over a year to get him to jump into the back of the car and even now it is not consistant 
Despite that, he will leap Agility hurdles with ease - but he can see clearly his landing zone, which I think is the problem 

Spangle - your comments have made me realise that the body language thing is almost involuntary, there are loads of cues that I am giving him before and at each obstacle without ne even noticing them...I must try and think about it a bit more; and I love the idea of videoing it; must ask OH to come along 

[ali]

barkley's trainer is all for non-verbal communication with dogs to the extent that she recommends not talking unneccesarily to your dog at all, particularly whilst out walking. must admit i haven't taken it that far as often barkley is the only being around that i can talk to during the daytime! am very aware that he is ignoring most of it though and therefore really should try to stop!  

good luck with molo though it sounds like it is already working well. i don't think it will have a detrimental effect on your relationship. if anything, he probably finds signals much clearer to understand and having to pay closer attention to you can't be a bad thing.

[Tracy S]

We watched some of the agility at Crufts and was amazed but just how much the dogs picked up fom their handlers body language. 

[sportsmonki]

Could it effect the bond between us; could he begin to ignore me?

I know it isnt the same, but I work Storm with minimal commands in her obedience.  I think if anything it has strengthened the bond between us.  She has got pretty good at reading tiny body movements, and thinking for herself what she needs to do to adapt.  Because of her being so tuned in to everything it also means I have to really concentrate on what I am doing...so I think it's made me more consistent in my handling.  Really feels like we are working together as a team, and I prefer her to think for herself a bit (which she wouldnt do as much if I told her every movement to make)?  I think it also makes her take more notice when I do say something...and has made verbal praise a stronger reward for her.

Let us know how Molo's week with minimal verbal commands goes? 

[debbie321]

Ooo err!  I've been told to take Ben back to agility after our 6 week intro course.  He loves it and is like a kid in a playground!  But he has his own agenda - this is all getting very technical and more like hard work ............................. I admit the hard work is mine. 

Ben is a star 'on speed' and reacts so quickly that if I don't get in there with a command within a nano second I've lost him - he is then over the A frame, along the dog walk and through the tunnel before I've gathered myself after the jumps 

I've been told that I need 1-2-1 lessons.  Is that the route you've gone down Rachel?  Or do you do your training in a class? 

TBH the class is much more affordable but the trainer said that the course we have completed just showed the dogs aptitude.  We now need the 1-2-1's (however many for  £10 per 30 mins) before we are able to join the intermediate class.

[Spangle]

I've been doing agility for 8+ years so a lot of what I have picked up I guess you could say has come with the experience.  A few years ago I was with a club, and I think they are a great place to start, but to be honest once we had a bit of experience, I felt the training could be hit and miss, and far too repetitive for us. We need more of a challenge. 

I do most of our training now at home in the garden, but attend training workshops occasionally (about £25 for a half day)  Never had 1-2-1 lessons, but reckon my dogs would have had enough after 15 minutes of it.  Billy likes it little and often, whereas Ted still needs as much experience as possible, so he is going to go to classes that a friend is running soon. 

I guess how much work you put in depends on what you want to get out of it.  Some people like to do it just for fun; some are very serious and more competitive.  I think I’m a bit of both, perhaps more serious about it with Billy because he is a good dog  (biased I know ) Although don’t get me wrong, we still get eliminated a lot, and it’s always due to handler error!

Just to add - just because someone is labelled as a trainer, it does not mean they are a good one.  So don’t be afraid to shop around until you find training that you are happy with.