CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Puppies => Topic started by: Minky on December 13, 2017, 09:00:09 PM
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Apologies for the very long post but I’d be really grateful for help on this please. We are seriously considering whether or not we can keep our pup, as his behaviour is putting strain on us as a family and I’m feeling completely suffocated.
We are a family of four (me, hubbie, daughter 13 and son 9). Our household is relatively calm and we consider ourselves reasonably intelligent and well-read. I work part time from home.
Our golden male show cocker is now 19.5 weeks old. We got him when he was 9 weeks. He is walked twice a day. The first is in the morning and is about 30 mins, usually off-lead and a 20-25 minute walk later in the day (usually early evening). In addition we spend a little time doing mind/brain games with him. In between he has plenty of undisturbed rest and sleep time.
He shows a number of signs of aggression and also separation anxiety, which have been evident from the beginning.
What we don’t know is what is ‘normal’, as the 3 trainers who’ve been over to the house have said he’s a particularly feisty cocker (although none have actually witnessed his behaviour). He has also completed puppy classes.
To break down things:
He bites when I put on a lead and harness, (this process is stressful, frustrating and my hands and arms are covered in scratches and marks)*, bites when you sit to stroke and cuddle (does this immediately), still pulls at shoes and the clothes we are wearing, bites when being (gently) towel dried and most recently bit the groomer when she touched his paws (first time there) and the vet when being handled.
The vet has advised that we seek help from a behaviourist and is concerned that things will get worse, not better.
*no one else in the household is brave enough to put the harness and lead on him.
In addition he often bites unprovoked. For example my 9 year old may be sitting at the kitchen table and our pup just comes up and bites him - from nowhere! This isn’t playful, or mouthing. If my son has a friend over to play, I worry that the dog will exhibit this behaviour spontaneously. I appreciate that i could separate the dog from the kids, but this really isn’t a solution - it just masks the problem.
We try and replace biting with chew toys which make no difference, nor does yelping, saying ouch, time out or any other suggested methods of distraction.
We have been consistent in our approach so we are rather stumped as to whether or not this is normal behaviour. We have numerous friends with puppies or dogs and none of them have had these issues to the extent we have.
We do reward good behaviour and give treats where appropriate.
With regard to separation, he is crate trained at night and other than the first couple of weeks of crying at night, he happily goes into his crate (which is downstairs in the tv room) about 10:30pm and we don’t hear hear from him in the morning until around 6:30am.
He follows me around the downstairs of the house, and when I go upstairs (we have a gate on the stairs), or go into a room he’s not allowed in, he cries and barks until I come down/out. I’ve tried giving him toys, filled kongs etc and nothing makes any difference.
I also got a puppy cam after suspecting him being unhappy about being left home alone. In increments of 15 minutes I left him in his crate, with a few toys, stuffed kong and the tv on. Upon return I hear him barking, and now can see him on the camera. By 1.5 hours, he is barking, pacing in the crate, digging in it and biting the crate and also himself. He looks really distressed.
He’s only properly calm for the first hour in the crate. Admittedly if I didn’t have the camera, I wouldn’t know what’s going on, but my suspicions are that he is really anxious about being left alone, despite being happy to go into his crate at night.
Unfortunately everything considered, I haven’t bonded with him at all. My husband is really trying to have a relationship, and my son isn’t at all attached. I think my son sees him as a hindrance and sees how stressed I’ve become since getting the pup. Only my daughter has developed a relationship with him however she is at school all day and has lots of weekend commitments. My sister pops over to our house throughout the week and she too has a relationship with him).
I wondered if anyone else has been through something similar and come out the other side. I appreciate that every situation is different but before we start enlisting the help of a behaviourist and haemorrhaging even more money, i am keen to get an understanding from other Cocker parents. Thanks!
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Hello and welcome to COL
you’ve definitely come to the right place to find “kindred spirits”! Cockers are known as cockerdiles and Velcro dogs for good reason ;)
I have 4 Cockers. Each totally different from each other. 3 from pups and one an older “rescue” who was given to us. My first cocker was a difficult puppy. Needy and over excited but didn’t know what to do with that excitement. It was only after joining COL that I realised she wasn’t getting enough sleep and didn’t volunteer to have naps (pup 2 was a dream in comparison - she still goes off to her bed for naps!). Pups at 20 weeks old need at least 18 hours sleep a day.......
Pups can be very hard work. There is light at the end of the tunnel - honest!
Random “biting” is attention seeking - in a dogs life, there is no such thing as bad attention, just attention so being told off fits with that........time outs help as, and you already know this, Cockers really don’t like to be ignored! Put him out of the room and when you are ready, allow him back but on your terms. At 20 weeks he is still very young and you have a window now to shape his behaviour to the way that you want.
Where abouts are you? There may be others on here nearby that can help or can recommend a positive behaviourist - the last thing you should do with an anxious dog is to be told to dominate it or use aversive methods (bottle rattles, water sprays etc) as his behaviour will exacerbate rapidly.
Others will be along with more help and advice. If you are considering rehoming him, which you haven’t mentioned, then please contact his breeder first and if they won’t take him then one of the Spaniel rescues such as Cocker and English Springer Spaniel Rescue (CAESSR) who understand the breed and their idiosyncrasies and will place him with the best home possible.
Good luck with your boy - would be good to know his name and have some photos.
Jayne
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Hi and welcome! Don‘t have anymore to add to the excellent advice there from Pearly, particulary re attention seeking. Fortunately Humphrey is, by cocker standards, a pretty quiet dog but did have his moments as a puppy and I also found that quietly putting him out of the room, without giving him eye contact or speaking was very effective. There will be lots of COL‘ers along soon who have similar experiences and can offer good advice and moral support to help you get through this stage. Your little one IS still very young and I‘m sure, with the right training, you will get through it. In the meantime, stick with us, don‘t be afraid to let off steam here if it helps (and it does! ;) and do keep us posted! Good Luck!
P.S. Pictures of puppies, even naughty ones, keep us happy! :lol2:
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Just to echo Pearly's comments.
We have three show cockers - they are all black and look the same, but have very different personalities; even though two are from the same litter. Our new, 8 month old, puppy bit a lot until he was about 4 or 5 months old. We were expecting it, but it still hurts as their teeth are very sharp. As he got his adult teeth the biting stopped, though it has started again recently, but now it is just very gentle, affectionate, mouthing and doesn't hurt at all. He will still chew things to pieces; we lost the first set of Christmas lights. We have found plastic bottles to be the best release for his chewing needs - I flatten them for recycling and found they make great, cheap, toys in that state. On the whole, cockers are very gentle, friendly dogs. There are some exceptions, but few and far between and you will need to wait until adulthood to really know how they turn out. I would say it's not fair on the little tyke to judge him at 4 months.
Yelping when they bite is not just a "distraction" it is the same signal their mum would use to indicate that they are going too far. We watched our puppy bite and pull the ears of our older dogs who put up with it; at least, up to a point. Adult dogs also bite back occasionally to teach the pup a lesson. You can do this by pinching the puppy a little - be careful not to really hurt.
As Pearly said, puppies need a lot of sleep. Play when the puppy wants to play, but otherwise just leave him sleep. Walks should be limited to 5 minutes per month of age and no more than twice a day. For you that means 20 minutes maximum. You will not tire the puppy with this - he is a cocker - but you don't want to damage his developing bones.
I too had scratches and bite marks and even an infected thumb where needle teeth had drawn blood - they are now a distant memory.
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Yikes, you sound at the end of your tether, Minky. Sending hugs. :'(
I'm wondering why you've been through 3 trainers in such a short time. And now the vet recommends a behaviourist? This sounds like more than a run of the mill problem to me.
It's concerning that you don't feel bonded with him. I hope you can find a solution to this soon.
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Just to say I didn’t bond with Henry at all in the first few months. I found him much more difficult than expected and was just fed up with the disruption, and the biting and chewing and constant need for attention. Things really changed when he hit about 5 months old and I found I started to bond with him then. Before then I was going through the motion for the sake of the pup and the rest of the family who adored him instantly. So don’t feel that you’ll never bond with your dog even if you’ve had a rough start.
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Curious thing about the bonding - it was love at first sight for me and my wife with all the dogs. We don't mind the attention, that's why we have dogs, but the need for constant vigilance - in case they poo or pee or chew something they shouldn't or eat something dangerous - can be wearying.
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I can relate to a lot of what you have said, especially the separation aspect.
The first few months was an absolute nightmare for me >:D, however trust me things will get better as your pup matures ;).
Mine would not sleep and would cry all night, when I say cry I mean barking, whining, scratching for hours on end. This time last year I was literally a walking zombie. In my mind I thought what have I done, I cannot continue like this. This forum was a blessing, as I picked up lots of great advice and I also realised that this is only temporary as he was still so young. Now he is older (14 months) he really is a good boy and i'm so pleased I stuck with him.
With regards to the separation aspect. Mine hated being left, he would cry, scratch the carpet and be very upset. After advice from this forum I did the following:
- Did lots of short leaving times. E.g Left for 1 minute and came back, left for 5 minutes came back, left for 30 seconds and came back. Slowly increasing the times.
- Everytime I left I would give him a treat, this made him realise that me leaving is a good thing.
- Left him with lots of toys.
- Left radio on.
- When I leave I try and do it as quickly as possible so its not such a big deal.
Mine now seems to be happy to be left :D. I also removed my camera as I felt I was watching him all the time so it was making me go mad >:D. But when I come back he seems to be very excited but no noises.
With regards to the following, this is completely normal and very common in Cockers. They love people and he just loves being with you. Mine follows me literally everywhere, I know it does get frustrating at times but its only because he likes your company.
Things will get easier for you - trust me
Good luck
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Lots of good advice for you already, to which I will just add a few things from personal experience.
My old girl Sophie ('the Sodpot') didn't get her nickname for nothing. They all have individual characters and we have to work with them to bring out the good and control the less desirable. When you have done that, it is enormously satisfying for you and the dog.
A lot of dogs are very sensitive about people touching, particularly their front feet. Sophie's front paws were hypersensitive and so we always had to be careful how they were handled as she would make her objections clear.
Check what you are feeding your pup, both in treats and main meals. Sophie was (when young) particularly susceptible to artificial colours and additives which would turn her into a bitey demon. Once we sorted out her diet she was much happier.
As pups, cockers can try the patience of the best of us. As a breed, they are needy and contrary and much too bright for their own good. That is what makes them such a joy to have.
Don't forget that your pup is also trying to figure out where he is and who everyone is. A large busy family takes some sorting out in a puppy brain, so he will need you to cut him a bit of slack too. It is very rare for dogs to show unprovoked aggression (from an evolutionary point of view there is no profit to it). We often struggle because we cannot see the cause. Usually it is feeling frightened or threatened. You may not see something in that way and so we all struggle sometimes to see what has caused a particular reaction because we don't know how the world appears through a pair of cocker puppy eyes!
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Lots of good advice for you already, to which I will just add a few things from personal experience.
My old girl Sophie ('the Sodpot') didn't get her nickname for nothing. They all have individual characters and we have to work with them to bring out the good and control the less desirable. When you have done that, it is enormously satisfying for you and the dog.
A lot of dogs are very sensitive about people touching, particularly their front feet. Sophie's front paws were hypersensitive and so we always had to be careful how they were handled as she would make her objections clear.
Check what you are feeding your pup, both in treats and main meals. Sophie was (when young) particularly susceptible to artificial colours and additives which would turn her into a bitey demon. Once we sorted out her diet she was much happier.
As pups, cockers can try the patience of the best of us. As a breed, they are needy and contrary and much too bright for their own good. That is what makes them such a joy to have.
Don't forget that your pup is also trying to figure out where he is and who everyone is. A large busy family takes some sorting out in a puppy brain, so he will need you to cut him a bit of slack too. It is very rare for dogs to show unprovoked aggression (from an evolutionary point of view there is no profit to it). We often struggle because we cannot see the cause. Usually it is feeling frightened or threatened. You may not see something in that way and so we all struggle sometimes to see what has caused a particular reaction because we don't know how the world appears through a pair of cocker puppy eyes!
Good advice 👍
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Lots of good advice for you already, to which I will just add a few things from personal experience.
My old girl Sophie ('the Sodpot') didn't get her nickname for nothing. They all have individual characters and we have to work with them to bring out the good and control the less desirable. When you have done that, it is enormously satisfying for you and the dog.
A lot of dogs are very sensitive about people touching, particularly their front feet. Sophie's front paws were hypersensitive and so we always had to be careful how they were handled as she would make her objections clear.
Check what you are feeding your pup, both in treats and main meals. Sophie was (when young) particularly susceptible to artificial colours and additives which would turn her into a bitey demon. Once we sorted out her diet she was much happier.
As pups, cockers can try the patience of the best of us. As a breed, they are needy and contrary and much too bright for their own good. That is what makes them such a joy to have.
Don't forget that your pup is also trying to figure out where he is and who everyone is. A large busy family takes some sorting out in a puppy brain, so he will need you to cut him a bit of slack too. It is very rare for dogs to show unprovoked aggression (from an evolutionary point of view there is no profit to it). We often struggle because we cannot see the cause. Usually it is feeling frightened or threatened. You may not see something in that way and so we all struggle sometimes to see what has caused a particular reaction because we don't know how the world appears through a pair of cocker puppy eyes!
Good post 👍
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Thank you everyone for your words of advice and reassurance. I really appreciate you taking the time to comment - It’s good to know I’m not alone!
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You could have been describing our first cocker Ben, he was a nightmare pup. He was our first cocker and although both me and my husband had grown up with dogs we always had collie crosses and a cocker was a complete shock.
I actually called in a behaviourist at 12 weeks because i thought he was vicious.
I spent weeks thinking what have we done, and didn't actually realise how fond of him I was until he cut his nose on some glass in the park and I sobbed because he was hurt ph34r
You have been given good advice already, has anyone mentioned Top Barks? If you can get to see him it will be so worth your while.
What I wanted to add that despite being a revolting puppy who put me off puppies completely ! Ben turned into a complete cuddle monster, he always kept his grumbly noises putting his harness on, but it was just noise, but he became loving, cuddly and I adored him and we had 14 years of joy with him so if you can get through this stage it is so worth it. Good luck and hang in there xx
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Like Bens mum, I stuck it out, but my children are adults. I may have had a different reaction if I had bought the lovely pup to be a companion with youngsters . The lab and springer we had before were perfect with people. Bobby met everyone with me saying. ' don't stare at him, no sudden touching'. I too was the only one to be patient enough to get him on the lead or in the car. He had to do everything by himself! We had to ensure that everyone else got in the car first, or he would guard it and go ballistic. He improved massively , and I loved him to bits when I understood his brain. I'm sure there is a cocker 'special needs' gene, like autism?
This forum saved our relationship, no doubt about that. Tears aplenty. Rows with husband about training method.
If you can't cope with this, no-one will criticise you for putting the dogs interest first, ie following our advice for rehoming him to a proper organisation. I think you should tell the breeder, you doubtless paid a lot of money out. But I don't know whether they would rehome him as carefully, if at all.
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I'm sure there is a cocker 'special needs' gene, like autism?
When talking about Leo to anyone I always refer to him as autistic with ADHD... obsessive, compulsive, addicted to routine, high functioning and a complete whirlwind :005:
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I'm sure there is a cocker 'special needs' gene, like autism?
When talking about Leo to anyone I always refer to him as autistic with ADHD... obsessive, compulsive, addicted to routine, high functioning and a complete whirlwind :005:
Yup that sounds like a cocker. 😉
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So sympathetic and recognise so many things from my experience with Bailey now 3. A couple of things to add. Re the crate when you go out. I got advice on here to dispense with leaving him in the crate as I returned to a complete stressed dog. The moment I didn’t leave him in the crate- just left him distracted by a filled kong- he was completely fine home alone. Re leaving him to go upstairs or to another room, as he gets older and more secure that you’ll come back he will grow out of this I believe. Mine did the same. Re bonding- I get it- this is not what you expected or thought you were signing up for- during puppy times I thought a million times what have I done and struggled so much but it has grown and grown. Re the biting- we have issues of territorial guarding at home and under tables, in corners etc with strangers and fear aggression but also some differences to what you describe. I agree it is hard for a puppy to understand who and what everything is and how it fits together. Bailey barked and growled at whatever he didn’t understand. He went for feet under tables I think not even knowing these strange moving things were attached to a human. It is very scary for a young nervous cocker. They are all slightly unique. The answer has to be a behaviourist to understand the full dynamics, help you understand triggers and give you all the tools and advice you need. Try and keep going. Get help. Make the most of the good times like off lead walks.
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Re the towel drying, touching front paws, having a lead or harness put on, shoe obsession: bailey was just the same as a pup. I found it impossible to brush him and his first harness had to be put on by the shop keeper because we were scared of the thrashing around and growling and biting!!! He has grown out of all of this. We can do anything to him- brush, trim, dry him. He still makes a grumble noise sometimes and yes their paws are sensitive but if you stick with it and build trust together- he will learn you are not going to hurt him- you do come through it and it becomes a pleasure, fun and loving. He still has a shoe obsession but no longer wants to destroy the laces, just carry them around and it has gone from being annoying to endearing... x
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This really is a great forum. I do believe that all puppies are different (same as all babies are different) but it's reassuring to know that there's light at the end of the tunnel and most behaviours he will grow out of.
And I've just received a quote from our house alarm company to change the sensor in our kitchen to 'pet safe'. I think he may be better with some space to roam, and our kitchen is a good space for him.
Hopefully it'll sort out his daytime 'issues'!!!
And the biting has significantly reduced. Putting the harness on is still a challenge, and he likes to resource guard food/toys but he is certainly more chilled and I'm beginning to warm to him (he's now 21 weeks and has been with us since he was 9 weeks).
So thank you all.
What a lovely bunch of Cocker parents!!!
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What a lovely update! Am so pleased that you‘re beginning to feel more positive and am sure that now you‘ve overcome the initial bonding problems, things will get much better. Remember to celebrate the successes, however small they may seem, and ignore the failures, -they‘re just tomorrow‘s successes that have been postponed!! ;)
Have a lovely Christmas and don‘t forget to keep us posted!
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What a lovely update! Am so pleased that you‘re beginning to feel more positive and am sure that now you‘ve overcome the initial bonding problems, things will get much better. Remember to celebrate the successes, however small they may seem, and ignore the failures, -they‘re just tomorrow‘s successes that have been postponed!! ;)
Have a lovely Christmas and don‘t forget to keep us posted!
Thank you!! I'm taking on board lots of invuable advice and seeing some positive changes.
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So sympathetic and recognise so many things from my experience with Bailey now 3. A couple of things to add. Re the crate when you go out. I got advice on here to dispense with leaving him in the crate as I returned to a complete stressed dog. The moment I didn’t leave him in the crate- just left him distracted by a filled kong- he was completely fine home alone. Re leaving him to go upstairs or to another room, as he gets older and more secure that you’ll come back he will grow out of this I believe. Mine did the same. Re bonding- I get it- this is not what you expected or thought you were signing up for- during puppy times I thought a million times what have I done and struggled so much but it has grown and grown. Re the biting- we have issues of territorial guarding at home and under tables, in corners etc with strangers and fear aggression but also some differences to what you describe. I agree it is hard for a puppy to understand who and what everything is and how it fits together. Bailey barked and growled at whatever he didn’t understand. He went for feet under tables I think not even knowing these strange moving things were attached to a human. It is very scary for a young nervous cocker. They are all slightly unique. The answer has to be a behaviourist to understand the full dynamics, help you understand triggers and give you all the tools and advice you need. Try and keep going. Get help. Make the most of the good times like off lead walks.
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I took your advice and left him twice in the kitchen today (the crate I had been putting him in is in our TV room). The first time I wasn't out for very long (an hour or so) and my hubbie was working upstairs, however he was quiet as a mouse, and although I know he was sitting behind the kitchen door waiting for me to return (I could see from my puppy cam), he was calm and relaxed.
The second time I was out for 2 hours and again, my hubbie said he didn't hear a peep from him whilst i was out.
So perhaps the crate is a safe haven for bedtime only.
Fabulous suggestion - thank you!
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Hi minky,
Great to hear you are feeling better and making some bits of progress.
I'm 10 months into life with our 13 month cocker. People on here will know the nightmare tasks I've had on my hands, your pup sounds so much like Leo and although we are not fully sorted yet, please be reassured that the hard work you are putting in will pay off.
The harness is still an issue for us at times, funnily enough more taking it off now than putting it on so I use treats to do both. Leo also chooses to hide from me when I get his harness out instead of nipping me for putting it on nowadays, one way I've got over this is using a slip lead just to get him out of the house. Then as soon as we are out of the door he lets me slip the harness straight on with no treat at all. It might be something you might like to try. Sometimes I find that Leo is so excited about the fact he's going out, he simply does not want to wait to get his harness on so getting him out of the house so he is over the initial excitement works really well for me.
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Hi Minky, I just read your post and wondered how you are getting on with your pup? We have a similar situation with the biting. Ours has just turned 6 months and still goes into unprovoked bite fest. I am finding it really depressing, especially when we have been really responsible and read up on everything and been so kind and consistent. Advice like ' just heel them into the kitchen...' makes me laugh, when sometimes I can't even get ours to do a sit because she's not in the mood and prefers to jump and bite at my hands instead! Are we missing something or have we just been unlucky? Our pup is good in some ways but this biting is really getting to me now and like you I can't help but worry that maybe it is more than puppy behaviour. I do hope you are winning with yours! :D
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Hi Minky, I just read your post and wondered how you are getting on with your pup? We have a similar situation with the biting. Ours has just turned 6 months and still goes into unprovoked bite fest. I am finding it really depressing, especially when we have been really responsible and read up on everything and been so kind and consistent. Advice like ' just heel them into the kitchen...' makes me laugh, when sometimes I can't even get ours to do a sit because she's not in the mood and prefers to jump and bite at my hands instead! Are we missing something or have we just been unlucky? Our pup is good in some ways but this biting is really getting to me now and like you I can't help but worry that maybe it is more than puppy behaviour. I do hope you are winning with yours! :D
Hi Digger, Scooby is definitely improved although he is by no means in 'angel territory'. He still mouths (albeit without aggression) when having a cuddle with me or the kids, however is unpredictable and snappy with my hubbie and sister, and still when the harness goes on.
Our second visit to the groomer today was a success so I think he's definitely happier to be handled and they were much happier to look after him.
I do completely agree with you that some of the well-meaning advice is laughable, and indeed frustrating at times. So far I've found the advice on this page invaluable and very honest which is refreshing. I'm on a couple of Cocker pages on Facebook and they really aren't great and some of the generic dog training pages just don't seem to cut it!
We also have separation issues to sort so a way to go yet.
Not wishing the time away but I look forward to looking back with my gentle, secure, loving doggy and being able to help others in need!!!!
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This really is a great forum. I do believe that all puppies are different (same as all babies are different) but it's reassuring to know that there's light at the end of the tunnel and most behaviours he will grow out of.
And I've just received a quote from our house alarm company to change the sensor in our kitchen to 'pet safe'. I think he may be better with some space to roam, and our kitchen is a good space for him.
Hopefully it'll sort out his daytime 'issues'!!!
And the biting has significantly reduced. Putting the harness on is still a challenge, and he likes to resource guard food/toys but he is certainly more chilled and I'm beginning to warm to him (he's now 21 weeks and has been with us since he was 9 weeks).
So thank you all.
What a lovely bunch of Cocker parents!!!
Just re read your post - there is a really good book called “Mine! A practical guide to resource guarding” by Jean Donaldson that I know has helped other owners on here.
To Minky and Digger, it does get better, honestly - Cockers are such rewarding little dogs but my goodness they are hard work as pups!.
One tactic I have found very effective is to use exclusion as a tool - by this I mean that the dog only gets affection when I want to give it, not when the dog comes to me asking - appreciate this is not easy with a puppy especially with those spaniel eyes.......
My first dog had terrible separation anxiety which looking back, I’d created from the moment I collected her and she howled on the way home - I stopped mid way and took her out of the carrier to calm her down, possibly I should have left her in it until she calmed down herself.
I’m using past tense as the separation anxiety has pretty much gone now. It’s taken 4 years but she’s fairly independent and if I asked a friend to hold her lead while I pop into a shop, she’s quite happy to stay outside and wait, whereas 4 years ago on holiday in Devon, she literally howled and shrieked as soon as I went into the shop. For anyone ther in Linton at the time, sorry! It was horrific not only to us hearing the noise but to Pearl and whatever was going on in her mind.
Since then I have been to a number of trainers and realised that everything that took place in our lives was on Pearls terms - she was fed when she asked, not when it suited me.....went out of doors before me.....and would happily get up on the settee whenever she pleased. She now has to earn all of these “privileges” by behaving (sit, paw, stopping when asked etc) once earned she gets hands on affection, or allowed on the settee :D.
It has helped having a second dog but I think it would have been easier for Pearl if Coral had been male and a scs - Coral is a hard hunting, head strong, physically very althletic wcs that Pearl tried to compete with initially but has now realised she wouldn’t win so doesn’t bother. They rub along most of the time but will never share a basket.
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Thanks for your comments Minky and Pearl. Much appreciated. I can't believe the ups and downs downs with these dogs! I am one if those 'tough' people that can deal with anything (apparently) and before I'd even finished my breakfast this morning I actually thought I was going to cry!! We'd had a couple of evenings with very little biting and then last night- back with avengance- deliberate targeted biting. >:D*******!!! and my daughter visited this morning before our walk and she was jumping and nipping at her clothes relentlessly.( the dog- not my daughter..) Sooo annoying and when she's in that state she won't listen. The more you try to intervene, the more she does it, so back in her pen. In out in out in out all day long. She doesn't learn! Then I took her out for a walk and she was a little Angel, doing everything I said and recalling nicely. Have bought a whistle and now attaching that to my recall command for extra back up for longer range.
If I had a pound for every time I have thought ' should've got another Springer' ..I'm hoping that in time I will be publicly retracting that statement. In the mean time thank goodness there are other people who understand. It would be lovely to go for a cocker walk with others in the same boat. Do you know if there are any meet ups near us? We're on the SuffolkEssex border? Sorry for my rant! :005: Thank you again for your help. ;)
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Hi digger.... maybe there's a thing about today ... is it a full moon?!?! We too have had an extremely testing day so don't feel alone!
Leo was on a rampage from 8am... He's not listened, he's nipped me, he's stolen the remote, he's tried to steal my dinner..... he went absolutely mad for about 15 minutes this evening and ran around the house barking, growling, trying to dig his way to Australia through my carpet!!! God knows what has got into him ..... I guess we all have good and bad days... this is my bad day... best advice I can give right now? Enjoy a good glass of wine and start new the next day :005:
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Digger wrote Do you know if there are any meet ups near us? We're on the SuffolkEssex border?
Could you get to Woodbridge, I live in Lowestoft and go there to meet my sis at the garden centre, but I do know there is a lovely walk along the river Deben, it wouldn't be till the weather sorts itself out, probably March time, but if it helps!
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They DO grow out of it but at times the process seems to take forever.
Barnaby's now 13 months old and while he stopped play biting overnight when he turned 6 months old, he continues to gently bite my forearm at times as a sign of affection, or alternatively to tell me that he's hungry. I've seen other Cockers that do this. He only does it to me and I'm not unhappy about it as he never hurts me, so we've no plan to train it out of him.
He is very much in control of his bite inhibition now. Last weekend while we were having a game of tug he accidentally bit my hand... there was no blood drawn but it hurt somewhat. He was mortified, stopped playing immediately and was kind of ashamed of himself for an hour afterwards... and I'd not chastised him for it at all.
Digger: We ( and Barnaby) will be back at our home on the NE Essex coast (Holland on Sea) for two weeks starting Sun 14th. Jan. If you fancy a walk on the beach with the dogs please drop us a PM. (BTW Barnaby's fine with other dogs, both boys and girls, so there should be no interaction problems from his part)
ATB Jon Sarka and the brown wirling dervish known as Barnaby
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They DO grow out of it but at times the process seems to take forever.
Barnaby's now 13 months old and while he stopped play biting overnight when he turned 6 months old, he continues to gently bite my forearm at times as a sign of affection, or alternatively to tell me that he's hungry. I've seen other Cockers that do this. He only does it to me and I'm not unhappy about it as he never hurts me, so we've no plan to train it out of him.
He is very much in control of his bite inhibition now. Last weekend while we were having a game of tug he accidentally bit my hand... there was no blood drawn but it hurt somewhat. He was mortified, stopped playing immediately and was kind of ashamed of himself for an hour afterwards... and I'd not chastised him for it at all.
Digger: We ( and Barnaby) will be back at our home on the NE Essex coast (Holland on Sea) for two weeks starting Sun 14th. Jan. If you fancy a walk on the beach with the dogs please drop us a PM. (BTW Barnaby's fine with other dogs, both boys and girls, so there should be no interaction problems from his part)
ATB Jon Sarka and the brown wirling dervish known as Barnaby
My 14 month old is exactly the same, he play bites me and knows how hard he can do it until it hurts. Luckily he only does this with me and if he does it too hard I say to him 'Gentle' and he then proceeds to lick the area, I think its his way of saying sorry.
I'm also never unhappy with him as its clear that he just likes to play with me. I think he thinks of me as a play mate :005:
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Hello TheAdventuresofBarnaby
our 9 month old, Mason, stopped biting, as you say, at about 6 months, but a month or so later started mouthing affectionately. He doesn't come close to hurting, just gently holds you fingers with his teeth. We hadn't thought to discourage him, it's quite nice, but something I read on CoL a few days ago made me think that he might hurt somebody and so we've started training him to not bite. It's a shame - he has so few ways of communicating - but just in case...
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Henry will gently mouth on me and other members of the immediate household when having a cuddle but has never, ever done it to anyone else when having a cuddle (and yes, he will have a cuddle with pretty much anyone) - that includes long term houseguests and regular visitors. We don’t encourage it - if he starts having a ‘nibble’ we tell him to go get a toy, whereupon cuddling resumes. But I’m fairly confident he would never do it to anyone outside the inner circle of his humans.
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LondonGirl, that's interesting. Our older pair have never mouthed - cuddled yes, but no play-biting, so we weren't sure where it could lead. Maybe we are wrong to discourage Mason.
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Yes, same as David and London girl describe, Barnaby's mouthing is affectionate. Its not play biting.
The bite I received as described was entirely due to bad timing on my part, but Barnaby decided it was his fault.
Our only concern is not about him hurting someone, only that it could be scary for non-dog owners. ( although its very unlikely that he'll adopt the mouthing behaviour with anyone he doesn't know really well)
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Oh you lovely people. I just told my husband that I now know where all the nice people hang out..they are on COL!! We always say that we are very suspicious of people who say they don't like animals...
LEO: You are my new rock- thank you and hope your boy has settled back down- what a monkey :005:
Mudmagnet: Woodbridge is a bit of a hike from where we are however it would be nice so like you say, perhaps in the spring we could tie it in with something else like you do and hook up for a riverside stroll. :D
Theadventuresof Barnaby: Thankyou. It's not too out of the way for us, and we all like a bit of beach! I am useless with tech but I'll try and get a message to you to see if we could arrange something. :D
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So sympathetic and recognise so many things from my experience with Bailey now 3. A couple of things to add. Re the crate when you go out. I got advice on here to dispense with leaving him in the crate as I returned to a complete stressed dog. The moment I didn’t leave him in the crate- just left him distracted by a filled kong- he was completely fine home alone. Re leaving him to go upstairs or to another room, as he gets older and more secure that you’ll come back he will grow out of this I believe. Mine did the same. Re bonding- I get it- this is not what you expected or thought you were signing up for- during puppy times I thought a million times what have I done and struggled so much but it has grown and grown. Re the biting- we have issues of territorial guarding at home and under tables, in corners etc with strangers and fear aggression but also some differences to what you describe. I agree it is hard for a puppy to understand who and what everything is and how it fits together. Bailey barked and growled at whatever he didn’t understand. He went for feet under tables I think not even knowing these strange moving things were attached to a human. It is very scary for a young nervous cocker. They are all slightly unique. The answer has to be a behaviourist to understand the full dynamics, help you understand triggers and give you all the tools and advice you need. Try and keep going. Get help. Make the most of the good times like off lead walks.
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I took your advice and left him twice in the kitchen today (the crate I had been putting him in is in our TV room). The first time I wasn't out for very long (an hour or so) and my hubbie was working upstairs, however he was quiet as a mouse, and although I know he was sitting behind the kitchen door waiting for me to return (I could see from my puppy cam), he was calm and relaxed.
The second time I was out for 2 hours and again, my hubbie said he didn't hear a peep from him whilst i was out.
So perhaps the crate is a safe haven for bedtime only.
Fabulous suggestion - thank you!
Hi Minky! So glad it worked. Hope all is well and getting a bit easier. Expect good days and bad days!! X
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Hi Minky
We were just wondering how you were getting on with your pup and the biting-I believe ours is the same age (just turned 7 months?).
Ours is better than she was but does still do it. I don't know why, and the older she gets the more I worry that there's something just slightly wrong. She is so wilful and independent. We got a pup instead of a rescue thinking a floppy old spaniel was the safe option.... >:(
Anyway I do hope you are making good progress with yours-Your first post sounded like you were at your wits end! :o
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Haven’t been on here for a while and wanted to update all you lovely people on our progress.
So Scooby is now 6.5 months and is turning into a gentle, loving and loyal doggie. The nipping has completely stopped (occasional gentle mouthing but nothing I’m concerned about) and he still follows me everywhere (which is quite annoying) and he still doesn’t like being left alone for long (we’ve managed 2.5 hours).
This forum is fabulous. Honestly you lot are so fabulous and supportive. Thank you!
Scooby is definitely a keeper!!
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Awww that is great news! So glad to hear such a transformation from your first post. Well done Scooby - and you guys for sticking with it. He's a lucky boy. :D
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Milky, I’m so thrilled to hear this! I hope we helped see you through the challenging times. Give that boy Scooby a cuddle from us!
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Brilliant update, am so pleased for you and Scooby! :banana: :clapdance: :banana:
Hope you‘ll stick with us and keep us updated on all his adventures!! :luv:
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Wonderful news! So pleased that things are sorting out
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Haven’t been on here for a while and wanted to update all you lovely people on our progress.
So Scooby is now 6.5 months and is turning into a gentle, loving and loyal doggie. The nipping has completely stopped (occasional gentle mouthing but nothing I’m concerned about) and he still follows me everywhere (which is quite annoying) and he still doesn’t like being left alone for long (we’ve managed 2.5 hours).
This forum is fabulous. Honestly you lot are so fabulous and supportive. Thank you!
Scooby is definitely a keeper!!
Glad that it looks like you've turned a corner!
Jura is coming up to 6 months old now and last week his last baby fang dropped out and it was like a switch went off inside him.No more nipping,he only chews his toys and he gently mouths when being fussed/cuddled :shades:
He's a totally different puppy :luv: