CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Grooming => Topic started by: Dessie on January 13, 2004, 09:26:25 AM
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Hi Guys
Well I had my knuckles wrapped by one of the older members of the Guernsey Dog Club last night for using thinning scissors on the throat down to the breastbone area :oops: :cry: She told me I should be using a stipping knife but I've never even seen a stripping knife let alone use one :roll: :oops:
Can some of you shed some light on how you do your neck/chest area. I've always done Bart's with thinning scissors and then when I had help with Douglas they used clippers :oops: now I'm just :roll: and don't know what to do now.
Cheers
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Hi Derryn
When you say "chest", do you mean the throat area down to the breastbone? I'm sure we had a thread on this before but I can't spot it at the moment. Anyway, thinners are used to trim this area of the chest but clippers, stripping knives etc should be a no-no for show Cockers (although we all know there are some who do take short cuts :wink:) I never use a stripping knife on a show Cocker - they leave a horrid, rough finish to the coat & are more suited to terrier breeds. Of course, others might use them but they are not for me :wink:
Jane
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I've only ever used the thinners on J & B's throat and chest, never heard of using a stripping knife there. I know ppl who use clippers and also some who do use a stripping knife for other "bits", but not heard of using the knife on the neck before.
Well I hope you considered yourself duly told and will now comply :D Carry on thinning girl :D
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Hi Derryn
When you say "chest", do you mean the throat area down to the breastbone? I'm sure we had a thread on this before but I can't spot it at the moment. Anyway, thinners are used to trim this area of the chest but clippers, stripping knives etc should be a no-no for show Cockers (although we all know there are some who do take short cuts :wink:) I never use a stripping knife on a show Cocker - they leave a horrid, rough finish to the coat & are more suited to terrier breeds. Of course, others might use them but they are not for me :wink:
Jane
Hi Jane
Yes the throat area down to the breastbone. Well I thought a stripping knife wouldn't be the thing to use but this lady used to Show Cockers years ago and this is how she did them and she said that I should start hand stripping at least 6 weeks before a Show :roll:
When you thin out the neck do you go as short as possible ?
I thought I was doing a good job on the Boys but now :roll:
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I've only ever used the thinners on J & B's throat and chest, never heard of using a stripping knife there. I know ppl who use clippers and also some who do use a stripping knife for other "bits", but not heard of using the knife on the neck before.
Well I hope you considered yourself duly told and will now comply :D Carry on thinning girl :D
Pam
My thoughts exactly but you do as your told and that is what I did :wink:
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Hiya Dessie,
I am totally inexperienced at grooming and I've been using the thinners to, good job Butty isn't exactly a show dog because I struggle to blend it so you can't see the scissor marks :oops: Although I still try and follow a show dog trim. Time for me to get my Jackie Marris-Bray video out again i think, good job Butty doesn't mind being a Guinea Pig for when i get my next one :wink: :lol:
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Hi Dessie, I say carry on with the thinning scissors :wink:
I don't use a stripping knife and I couldn't imagine using one on that area :shock:
Tracey :D
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Thanks Gilly your Butty looks lovely though. Its just when Older Exhibitors tell you you've done it with such and such and you should be using a stripping knife. I always though stripping knives were used on Terriers not Gundogs :wink: I'm going back to my thinning scissors :wink:
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thinning scissors get my vote too for this area - I do tend to keep the chest quite long though, as prefer that look :wink:
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Thanks Tracey - I know the thought of using a stripping knife on a Cocker sends shudders down my spine :roll:
Cheers Mike - you know when you think you are doing things right but then somebody questions you and then you think you've been doing it wrong all this time :wink:
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Hi Dessie
I agree with all the above, thinning scissors are the way to go. Stripping knives are a complete no no as not only can they completely ruin a coat but they are also very harsh on the skin, we don't own a harsh coated breed. Regarding shortness of coat i, personally, like a clean natural appearence so i thin downwards to the breast bone to what looks like two seams travelling down from the ear to shoulder and handstrip bend into the body.
But i do have a little question to throw at you all - Thin scissor upwards or downwards, what is the general rule :?:
Good luck
Torie & co x
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Hi Torie
To say I was a little shocked at her saying to use a Stripping Knife is an understatement :shock: Thinning scissors are much nicer finished off by handstripping.
You go in the direction of the hair when you are trimming.
HTH
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Hi Dessie
See thats how i was taught but recently my friends have started the 'up under' method, which although i have used this method on pets i think is alittle harsh for show trim :?
Have just visited your site, very good :!: Will you give Douglas ( and of course the other as well) a hug from his half sister Laney - they have the same dad :D
Torie & Laney loodle bum XXX
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You go in the direction of the hair when you are trimming.
I think I've been trimming the wrong way then, I followed photos in the Frank Kane and Joyce Caddy books which both show the scissors going up towards the head. :?: Maybe I'll get a neater finish if I start going down from now on.
I must confess to using a small Mikki stripping knife on Jimmy on the bits around the neck where all the different bits join. I've found it impossible getting these bits to blend using scissors alone and he won't tolerate handstripping there. Then again Jimmy isn't a show dog and I just want him looking neat and tidy. I dream of getting the throat looking like Ruby's in Jane's avatar but I doubt I'll ever achieve this. :roll:
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Hi Torie
Confusing isn't it :wink: :wink:
So what's Larney's posh name ??
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Oops sorry guys duplicate post so deleted ...
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Well I've been doing it wrong then :oops: because I was going upwards to :roll: maybe thats why it looks so choppy :?
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I think I've been trimming the wrong way then, I followed photos in the Frank Kane and Joyce Caddy books which both show the scissors going up towards the head. :?: Maybe I'll get a neater finish if I start going down from now on.
Don't worry - I do a bit of both really & more often than not, if I'm scissoring the throat, then the scissors will be pointing upwards (probably read the same books as you when I started Colin :lol:)
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Jane....are you trying to confuse me :wink: it's not hard I know :lol:
so is it up or is it down...up or down, down or up.....aaaaaggghhhhh :lol: :lol:
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Guys have a look at this thread from Michele http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/grooming/Tr...0Feathering.htm (http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/grooming/Trimming%20Feathering.htm) "Always use the thinners in an upwards direction. Clear down throat following lay of coat down to breast bone".
Now reading this it sounds a bit confusing - I think you go up and then snip down as well. My friend has a diagram I'll get her to scan it in and email it over to me and I'll let you know when I've got it if anybody would like a copy forwarded.
Jane HELP
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I go upwards too :D
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I think maybe I'll give sideways a go as a compromise. :lol:
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I think maybe I'll give sideways a go as a compromise. :lol:
:lol: Colin
Seriously, we all have our different styles of trimming & whatever works for you & looks right on your dog is fine :) I have always trimmed throats/chests by holding the scissors upwards but that's just what works for me - it's not set in stone :) You can ask 3 different Cocker people how to do something & get 3 different answers so best not to get too hung up about exact techniques. I can remember when I first started being told how to trim feet in a certain way & was then told by a very well-known person that this was completely wrong in no uncertain terms :wink: Confusing at the time but you learn to live with it :)
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Well i'm just gonna stay with upwards...because thats what I've been doing and changing it now is just gonna completely throw me :? I might get risque like Colin and throw in a bit of sideways action for good measure :lol: :lol:
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Gilly what are you like :roll:
I'll hopefully have that diagram later on showing you what type of scissors to use where and where to hand strip etc so will email it to you privately if you like.
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I'll hopefully have that diagram later on showing you what type of scissors to use where and where to hand strip etc so will email it to you privately if you like.
Can you add my name to that list Dessie :wink: :oops: I've just started to trackle Dally's chest area and I'm taking it one tiny wussy snip at a time :oops: :lol: The sooner help arrives the better :roll: :lol:
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Of course Gill is your email address in your profile if not can you email me privately with it.
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Its in my profile Dessie. Thanks :D
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No probs as soon as I get it I'll send it on.
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Guys have a look at this thread from Michele http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/grooming/Tr...0Feathering.htm (http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/grooming/Trimming%20Feathering.htm) "Always use the thinners in an upwards direction. Clear down throat following lay of coat down to breast bone".
Now reading this it sounds a bit confusing - I think you go up and then snip down as well. My friend has a diagram I'll get her to scan it in and email it over to me and I'll let you know when I've got it if anybody would like a copy forwarded.
Jane HELP
Sorry guys, that is confusing isn't it! I tend to work from the breastbone upwards with the scissors pointing upwards too, and then where the lay of the coat changes direction (where the lines are drawn in photo) I trim in both directions and sometimes sideways too Gilly :wink: , it all depends which way the hair lays and to take out any small curls.
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Thanks Michele we were getting ourselves in a right flap as you see :wink: now though I think we are there and will be going up and side ways :roll: Hopefully the diagram I've forwarded Gilly & Gill will help as well, but your photos with lines on etc are excellent.
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Hi Derryn,
I know that I am known for my solids, but I do also trim Partis & some for the ring.
I always trim down, the way the coat grows, just taking off the ends a little at a time & brushing more or less after every cut.
This way you don't take away too much at a time - until you achieve the desired length/finish.
It takes a long time time but IMO worth it.
I would never use a stripping knife anywhere on a Cocker.
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OOooooops :oops:
Only read 1st page b4 I replied !!
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Just to add my two penneth worth in, I use thinners to Derryn on the throat, in an upwards and then finishing in a downwards :shock: confused you will be ., :P
But, as Jane has been very very helpful again Jane, thank you !! My problem is below the tail and above the hock, some leave it long, some trim it short .. :shock:
Jane diagrams were good, got to print them off the see them properly tho, will do that tomorrow ...
Question is tho, if the coat doesnt come out readily, would you gently use thinners?? Mine all look really hairy now ..... :roll:
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Thanks Kim just confusing when you get told by the Older Generation (and I mean 75+) :wink: that you should be using a stripping knife and teasing the coat out with that :roll: It's difficult with me and Nat being over here (and Jersey) as if I were on the Mainland as there are more of you over there that are willing to help out Novices :wink:
Nat I would never use thinning scissors on the body of a Cocker Coat :shock: :shock:
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Opps Sorry :oops:
Didn't mean to confuse the issue with the up V down question, it was just a little ponder i had. I'm going to try of these other ideas though, good job not showing much at moment :?
So what's Larney's posh name ??[/quote]
Laney's official name is Ashalon Saucy Secret :D
Would you be able to e-mail me these trimming diagrams aswell thanks :D
Torie X
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Hi Torie
Ashalon have some lovely dogs/bitches the pup they are currently showing is lovely.
Douglas sends Laney lots of ****
Of course I'll send you through the Trimming Diagram. Is your email addy in your profile.
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Derryn,
You can always ask me when you're over 4 a show, I'll always help or advise if I can.
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Kim
You might regret that :wink: Thanks very much though. I'll be taking lots of pics at Crufts I think.
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Hi Dessie
It is now, thanks in advance :)
Laney returns the Licks :D
Torie x
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Nat I would never use thinning scissors on the body of a Cocker Coat
Neither would I, I was talking about the legs :wink:
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Nat
I'd still handstrip on the legs.
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Me too !
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I would definetly carry on with your thinning scissors.
at work our show dogs were trimmed in that way, sometimes up and under sometimes down the way. I personally didn't find it made a huge difference as long as your brushing the hair frequently as your thinning so you can see the results as you go along, and using the thinning scissors correctly.
hope this helps.
B