9 week old - needs more food? - solved

[Mircass]

My 9 week old Ralph seems to be constantly hungry and always clears his bowl.  He's had one set of jabs and is up to date on his worming treatment.

This is what he eats:

6.30am handful of Burns kibble (mix of puppy mini and puppy original)
8am one weetabix with lacto-free milk (will start mixing with warm water)
12pm Burns kibble
4pm Burns kibble
8pm Burns kibble with small piece of cooked chicken or ham mixed with warm water

plus a lot of reward liver treats throughout the day for training/toileting etc.

I weigh out 100g of kibble for the day - that's the Burns recommended amount for a 5kg pup, Ralph weighs 3.2kg and yet what I am feeding him doesn't seem enough.  He's not exactly active, in fact he loves to sleep although does have his mad moments of playing for 1/2 hour or so before conking out.  And he's doing about 4-5 firm poos a day.

Today I had to move his 8pm dinner to 6pm as he was so clearly hungry (hyper biting, sitting in 'the spot' when I'm making his dinner, whining, checking his feeding area), he ate the lot in minutes then I gave him more kibble at 8pm so that's five meals today. He's probably had 120g today plus the ham, treats and weetabix.

I've tried to stick to Gwen Bailey's feeding routine but it's impossible to keep his last meal til 9pm.

He doesn't look fat, just normal puppy fat so should I feed him more? Should I add to his bowl if he clears it until he leaves some food behind?  Or is he just a greedy little thing and I should stick to the recommended amounts?  Should I feed him small amounts more often or try to stick to the 4 times a day routine?  Does the hours I feed him seem sensible?  He does tend to poo in the early hours between 3.30am-6.30am every night so I'd prefer to move his main/last meal earlier (I don't mind the 6.30am rise but when it's 3.30am it's wearing me out).

I've never had a cocker before so I don't know if they have a tendency to be greedy.  I know his sibling sister isn't a good eater according to her owner, so maybe it's just him.....

[HBP]

I didn't like Gwen Bailey's routine, 9pm seems far to late to be eating, in terms of night time pooping (for us anyway!).

Hudson is our first dog too so I'm no expert, but I've tended not to go by recommended amounts! Hudson currently eats 3 times the recommended amount of his food, plus treats and a Kong. He's showing no signs of being overfed or being a fatty! They can be greedy though, I think he'd probably eat all day long if I let him!

I'm not sure how accurate the recommended amounts are supposed to be. Puppies theoretically need a lot more than adult dogs as they are still growing - is it a puppy specific food? I think the better quality foods you can feed less of too,  as they're more nutritious rather than full of fillers. I was under the impression burns was a good quality food though!

I'd say give him more if you feel he needs it- his poo will soon tell you whether he does or not! I wouldn't keep filling his dish while he's eating though- you need to be in charge!

Good luck with the gorgeous one x

[Archie bean]

I agree. 9pm sounds pretty late for an evening meal. Archie's last meal of the day was 7pm as a pup plus a biccie at bedtime just to stop him being too hungry. He still has that routine now. It's a bit tricky with puppy food to get the amounts right. Remember that the suggested amounts are only a guideline so I would be inclined to try giving him a little more but keep an eye on his waistline.    I might also feed his early morning meal later and drop the weetabix as I'm not sure how we'll dogs really digest it. 
Hope he settles and lets you get a good nights sleep soon.

[VeeBee]

We fed Burns puppy food when our dog was a pup, as she always seemed to want more, had to feed at the upper end of the recommended daily allowance for her weight. However if the RDA was exceeded pooh went all sloppy.
Changed over from puppy BUrns to adult BUrns, and still feed at the upper level of the RDA for her weight. If the RDA is exceeded pooh still goes all sloppy. I put grated carrots/apples or any leftover cooked veg or rice if I have any in her breakfast to bulk it out and a small handful bran flakes(as suggested by the vet, for an anal gland problem) in the evening feed.
Burns is known for keeping dogs lean, even knowing this I don't go over the RDA.

[Murphys Law]

On the puppy food recommended by my vets (Vet complex) the RDA was 300g. I ended giving Murphy 3 x 150g a day and he still wasn't filling out. That was when I decided to change his food and we eventually ended up on Natural Instinct.

Poos nice and solid and filling out nicely.

[Geordietyke]

Archie (18 weeks) is on Royal Canin Medium Junior and the recommended amount is around 207g daily.  He eats that no problem and would easily eat more if I let him    (and has done since he was 8 weeks old).  I now feed him 7am/12 noon and 5pm with training treats daily and biscuit before bed.

[Jane57]

I would ditch the weetabix and the ham.
Also agree wouldnt feed quite as late.
When Riley was that age we fed at 7am, 12,  4pm  and 8pm but soon ditched the 8pm and moved the 4pm -6pm .

He is doing a lot of poo,s could even be overfed.
I would stick to just kibble and maybe cooked chicken if you like.

[Mircass]

So it seems the general consensus is to feed him more and forget Gwen B feeding schedule.  I never thought to question the Burns RDA.

VeeBee - at what age did you change to adult Burns?  

Ralph seems to be able to stomach most foods, whenever we visit friends with dogs, he dives into their food bowls no matter what's in there (it looks like I never feed the poor boy).  So I'm confident about introducing new foods to him without it affecting his stomach.

I'll stick to Burns for the moment (got two 6 kg sacks to get through) but perhaps raise the amount per day to 150g.  

And while he's stuck at home, I'll play around with his feeding timetable:
Remove the weetabix, swap for kibble at 7am
10am maybe introduce Natural Instinct (friend uses it and R loved it, also I'll see if he stays fuller longer after eating this)
2.30pm small amount kibble
6pm wet kibble and chicken
8pm biscuit

What biscuit is everyone using?



  

[Geordietyke]

I'll be moving on to adult food (whichever I decide to swap to) at around 6 months old.  I did the same with Odie and he and his weight etc was spot on.

Archie loves gravy bone biscuits 

[Archie bean]

My Archie has a milky bone at bedtime. He utterly adores them.

[VeeBee]

I think that Burns recommend switching over from Burns puppy food to Burns adult at between six and nine months, we changed over at about eight/nine months. 
Our pup came to us at eight weeks and was on three meals a day, breeder fed her on just Burns puppy, and we continued this regime. Gradually losing the lunchtime meal at about five/six months. She is now nineteen months old and she is fed two meals a day, just under half the daily allowance in the morning and just over half the daily allowance at teatime. She gets a biscuit when hubby leaves the house in the morning and another one when I leave for work.  And a third and final one  after her wee at nine o'clock in the evening. Biscuits are what ever I have got from the pick and mix selection at the local pet shop. When she was little, the milky bones were very popular.

[HBP]

Gravy bones here too. 

[MUDDYBOOTS]

When we first got Gabby she came home with a bag of Burns puppy mini and we started off feeding her 90g / day which we soon upped to 120g/day but she was always hungry,not just peckish she was manic for food always looking for something to eat and over the next few weeks she hardly put on any weight and got thinner and thinner till you could see her ribs and hip bones.
We decided to try Arden Grange and she soon started to gain weight and look better.If you look back through old threads you will find that a lot of people have the same problem with Burns,it dosent seem to suit some dogs .
Personally I would cut down on the ham and liver,liver is very rich and might unbalance your pups diet.

[Mircass]

Again thank you everyone who posted advice for me.  I was underfeeding my poor puppy, don't know why I didn't question the Burns RDA, it's clearly the wrong amount, certainly for cockers anyway.  The interesting thing is, since I've upped his food amount, he's returned to being the calm, non-manic puppy that first arrived. 

I'm going to continue with the Burns as I've got two 6kg sacks to finish but I've also added Nature's Diet to his meals plus chicken whenever I cook some. I've also dropped the weetabix & ham and his rewards are now his Burns dry food unless it's a high value reward, then I give him the dried liver. Plus I bought some milky bone biscuits but despite initially loving them, he's now lost interest.  Going to get some gravy bone biscuits instead.

So in case anyone does a search on this, this is Ralph's new feeding routine (now at 10 weeks old): 

120g Burns dry food (both mini and junior), 320-ish g Nature Diet puppy - I don't manage to get through the whole tub just yet.
I played around with the times to feed and found this suits all of us best.

8am Softened with hot water Burns dry food mashed into Nature Diet - generous amount
12pm Dry Burns with ND (smaller amount)
4pm Dry Burns with ND (small amount)
8pm  Dry Burns with ND (generous amount)
9.30pm biscuits x 2

And sorry for TMI, but his poo's have remained nice and firm and regular. 

[HBP]

One good thing about COL is that in depth puppy poo discussions are perfectly acceptable, almost mandatory in fact 

Glad he's settled down now, sounds like a hungry boy! Xx