Author Topic: Normal puppy, Cockerdile or genuine aggression?  (Read 5446 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ben's mum

  • Donator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2951
  • Gender: Female
Re: Normal puppy, Cockerdile or genuine aggression?
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2017, 09:15:49 PM »
I'm sure there is a cocker 'special needs' gene,  like autism?



When talking about Leo to anyone I always refer to him as autistic with ADHD... obsessive, compulsive, addicted to routine, high functioning and a complete whirlwind  :005:

Yup that sounds like a cocker. 😉

Offline lucybennett

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: Normal puppy, Cockerdile or genuine aggression?
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2017, 08:23:26 AM »
So sympathetic and recognise so many things from my experience with Bailey now 3. A couple of things to add. Re the crate when you go out. I got advice on here to dispense with leaving him in the crate as I returned to a complete stressed dog. The moment I didn’t leave him in the crate- just left him distracted by a filled kong- he was completely fine home alone. Re leaving him to go upstairs or to another room, as he gets older and more secure that you’ll come back he will grow out of this I believe. Mine did the same. Re bonding- I get it- this is not what you expected or thought you were signing up for- during puppy times I thought a million times what have I done and struggled so much but it has grown and grown. Re the biting- we have issues of territorial guarding at home and under tables, in corners etc with strangers and fear aggression but also some differences to what you describe. I agree it is hard for a puppy to understand who and what everything is and how it fits together. Bailey barked and growled at whatever he didn’t understand. He went for feet under tables I think not even knowing these strange moving things were attached to a human. It is very scary for a young nervous cocker.  They are all slightly unique. The answer has to be a behaviourist to understand the full dynamics, help you understand triggers and give you all the tools and advice you need. Try and keep going. Get help. Make the most of the good times like off lead walks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline lucybennett

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: Normal puppy, Cockerdile or genuine aggression?
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2017, 08:39:37 AM »
Re the towel drying, touching front paws, having a lead or harness put on, shoe obsession: bailey was just the same as a pup. I found it impossible to brush him and his first harness had to be put on by the shop keeper because we were scared of the thrashing around and growling and biting!!! He has grown out of all of this. We can do anything to him- brush, trim, dry him.  He still makes a grumble noise sometimes and yes their paws are sensitive but if you stick with it and build trust together- he will learn you are not going to hurt him- you do come through it and it becomes a pleasure, fun and loving. He still has a shoe obsession but no longer wants to destroy the laces, just carry them around and it has gone from being annoying to endearing... x


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline Minky

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
Re: Normal puppy, Cockerdile or genuine aggression?
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2017, 06:18:34 PM »
This really is a great forum. I do believe that all puppies are different (same as all babies are different) but it's reassuring to know that there's light at the end of the tunnel and most behaviours he will grow out of.
And I've just received a quote from our house alarm company to change the sensor in our kitchen to 'pet safe'. I think he may be better with some space to roam, and our kitchen is a good space for him.
Hopefully it'll sort out his daytime 'issues'!!!
And the biting has significantly reduced. Putting the harness on is still a challenge, and he likes to resource guard food/toys but he is certainly more chilled and I'm beginning to warm to him (he's now 21 weeks and has been with us since he was 9 weeks).

So thank you all.
What a lovely bunch of Cocker parents!!!

Offline bizzylizzy

  • Donator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4504
  • Gender: Female
  • 🙂 Jayne
Re: Normal puppy, Cockerdile or genuine aggression?
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2017, 07:32:41 PM »
What a lovely update! Am so pleased that you‘re beginning to feel more positive and am sure  that  now you‘ve overcome the initial bonding problems, things will get much better. Remember to celebrate the successes, however small they may seem, and ignore the failures, -they‘re just tomorrow‘s successes that have been postponed!!  ;)
Have a lovely Christmas and don‘t forget to keep us posted!

Offline Minky

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
Re: Normal puppy, Cockerdile or genuine aggression?
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2018, 10:16:14 PM »
What a lovely update! Am so pleased that you‘re beginning to feel more positive and am sure  that  now you‘ve overcome the initial bonding problems, things will get much better. Remember to celebrate the successes, however small they may seem, and ignore the failures, -they‘re just tomorrow‘s successes that have been postponed!!  ;)
Have a lovely Christmas and don‘t forget to keep us posted!

Thank you!! I'm taking on board lots of invuable advice and seeing some positive changes.

Offline Minky

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
Re: Normal puppy, Cockerdile or genuine aggression?
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2018, 10:24:39 PM »
So sympathetic and recognise so many things from my experience with Bailey now 3. A couple of things to add. Re the crate when you go out. I got advice on here to dispense with leaving him in the crate as I returned to a complete stressed dog. The moment I didn’t leave him in the crate- just left him distracted by a filled kong- he was completely fine home alone. Re leaving him to go upstairs or to another room, as he gets older and more secure that you’ll come back he will grow out of this I believe. Mine did the same. Re bonding- I get it- this is not what you expected or thought you were signing up for- during puppy times I thought a million times what have I done and struggled so much but it has grown and grown. Re the biting- we have issues of territorial guarding at home and under tables, in corners etc with strangers and fear aggression but also some differences to what you describe. I agree it is hard for a puppy to understand who and what everything is and how it fits together. Bailey barked and growled at whatever he didn’t understand. He went for feet under tables I think not even knowing these strange moving things were attached to a human. It is very scary for a young nervous cocker.  They are all slightly unique. The answer has to be a behaviourist to understand the full dynamics, help you understand triggers and give you all the tools and advice you need. Try and keep going. Get help. Make the most of the good times like off lead walks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I took your advice and left him twice in the kitchen today (the crate I had been putting him in is in our TV room). The first time I wasn't out for very long (an hour or so) and my hubbie was working upstairs, however he was quiet as a mouse, and although I know he was sitting behind the kitchen door waiting for me to return (I could see from my puppy cam), he was calm and relaxed.
The second time I was out for 2 hours and again, my hubbie said he didn't hear a peep from him whilst i was out.
So perhaps the crate is a safe haven for bedtime only.
Fabulous suggestion - thank you!

Offline Leo0106

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 334
  • Gender: Female
Re: Normal puppy, Cockerdile or genuine aggression?
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2018, 06:16:54 PM »
Hi minky,
Great to hear you are feeling better and making some bits of progress.
I'm 10 months into life with our 13 month cocker. People on here will know the nightmare tasks I've had on my hands, your pup sounds so much like Leo and although we are not fully sorted yet, please be reassured that the hard work you are putting in will pay off.
The harness is still an issue for us at times, funnily enough more taking it off now than putting it on so I use treats to do both. Leo also chooses to hide from me when I get his harness out instead of nipping me for putting it on nowadays, one way I've got over this is using a slip lead just to get him out of the house. Then as soon as we are out of the door he lets me slip the harness straight on with no treat at all. It might be something you might like to try. Sometimes I find that Leo is so excited about the fact he's going out, he simply does not want to wait to get his harness on so getting him out of the house so he is over the initial excitement works really well for me.

Offline Digger

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 218
Re: Normal puppy, Cockerdile or genuine aggression?
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2018, 07:07:05 PM »
Hi Minky, I just read your post and wondered how you are getting on with your pup? We have a similar situation with the biting. Ours has just turned 6 months and still goes into unprovoked bite fest. I am finding it really depressing, especially when we have been really responsible and read up on everything and been so kind and consistent.  Advice like ' just heel them into the kitchen...' makes me laugh, when sometimes I can't even get ours to do a sit because she's not in the mood and prefers to jump and bite at my hands instead! Are we missing something or have we just been unlucky? Our pup is good in some ways but this biting is really getting to me now and like you I can't help but worry that maybe it is more than puppy behaviour. I do hope you are winning with yours! :D

Offline Minky

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
Re: Normal puppy, Cockerdile or genuine aggression?
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2018, 10:03:43 PM »
Hi Minky, I just read your post and wondered how you are getting on with your pup? We have a similar situation with the biting. Ours has just turned 6 months and still goes into unprovoked bite fest. I am finding it really depressing, especially when we have been really responsible and read up on everything and been so kind and consistent.  Advice like ' just heel them into the kitchen...' makes me laugh, when sometimes I can't even get ours to do a sit because she's not in the mood and prefers to jump and bite at my hands instead! Are we missing something or have we just been unlucky? Our pup is good in some ways but this biting is really getting to me now and like you I can't help but worry that maybe it is more than puppy behaviour. I do hope you are winning with yours! :D

Hi Digger, Scooby is definitely improved although he is by no means in 'angel territory'. He still mouths (albeit without aggression) when having a cuddle with me or the kids, however is unpredictable and snappy with my hubbie and sister, and still when the harness goes on.
Our second visit to the groomer today was a success so I think he's definitely happier to be handled and they were much happier to look after him.
I do completely agree with you that some of the well-meaning advice is laughable, and indeed frustrating at times. So far I've found the advice on this page invaluable and very honest which is refreshing. I'm on a couple of Cocker pages on Facebook and they really aren't great and some of the generic dog training pages just don't seem to cut it!
We also have separation issues to sort so a way to go yet.
Not wishing the time away but I look forward to looking back with my gentle, secure, loving doggy and being able to help others in need!!!!

Offline Pearly

  • Donator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4235
  • Gender: Female
  • Pearl, Coral, Sally, Purdey and Kukri
Re: Normal puppy, Cockerdile or genuine aggression?
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2018, 10:00:10 AM »
This really is a great forum. I do believe that all puppies are different (same as all babies are different) but it's reassuring to know that there's light at the end of the tunnel and most behaviours he will grow out of.
And I've just received a quote from our house alarm company to change the sensor in our kitchen to 'pet safe'. I think he may be better with some space to roam, and our kitchen is a good space for him.
Hopefully it'll sort out his daytime 'issues'!!!
And the biting has significantly reduced. Putting the harness on is still a challenge, and he likes to resource guard food/toys but he is certainly more chilled and I'm beginning to warm to him (he's now 21 weeks and has been with us since he was 9 weeks).

So thank you all.
What a lovely bunch of Cocker parents!!!

Just re read your post - there is a really good book called “Mine! A practical guide to resource guarding” by Jean Donaldson that I know has helped other owners on here.

To Minky and Digger, it does get better, honestly - Cockers are such rewarding little dogs but my goodness they are hard work as pups!. 


One tactic I have found very effective is to use exclusion as a tool - by this I mean that the dog only gets affection when I want to give it, not when the dog comes to me asking - appreciate this is not easy with a puppy especially with those spaniel eyes.......

My first dog had terrible separation anxiety which looking back, I’d created from the moment I collected her and she howled on the way home - I stopped mid way and took her out of the carrier to calm her down, possibly I should have left her in it until she calmed down herself. 

I’m using past tense as the separation anxiety has pretty much gone now.  It’s taken 4 years but she’s fairly independent and if I asked a friend to hold her lead while I pop into a shop, she’s quite happy to stay outside and wait, whereas 4 years ago on holiday in Devon, she literally howled and shrieked as soon as I went into the shop.  For anyone ther in Linton at the time, sorry!  It was horrific not only to us hearing the noise but to Pearl and whatever was going on in her mind. 

Since then I have been to a number of trainers and realised that everything that took place in our lives was on Pearls terms - she was fed when she asked, not when it suited me.....went out of doors before me.....and would happily get up on the settee whenever she pleased.  She now has to earn all of these “privileges” by behaving (sit, paw, stopping when asked etc) once earned she gets hands on affection, or allowed on the settee  :D.

It has helped having a second dog but I think it would have been easier for Pearl if Coral had been male and a scs - Coral is a hard hunting, head strong, physically very althletic wcs that Pearl tried to compete with initially but has now realised she wouldn’t win so doesn’t bother.  They rub along most of the time but will never share a basket.


Offline Digger

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 218
Re: Normal puppy, Cockerdile or genuine aggression?
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2018, 02:48:39 PM »
Thanks for your comments Minky and Pearl. Much appreciated. I can't believe the ups and downs downs with these dogs! I am one if those 'tough' people that can deal with anything (apparently) and before I'd even finished my breakfast this morning I actually thought I was going to cry!! We'd had a couple of evenings with very little biting and then last night- back with avengance- deliberate targeted biting.   >:D*******!!! and my daughter visited this morning before our walk and she was jumping and nipping at her clothes relentlessly.( the dog- not my daughter..) Sooo annoying and when she's in that state she won't listen. The more you try to intervene, the more she does it, so back in her pen. In out in out in out all day long. She doesn't learn! Then I took her out for a walk and she was a little Angel, doing everything I said and recalling nicely. Have bought  a whistle and now attaching that to my recall command for extra back up for longer range.
If I had a pound for every time I have thought ' should've got another Springer' ..I'm hoping that in time I will be publicly retracting that statement. In the mean time thank goodness there are other people who understand. It would be lovely to go for a cocker walk with others in the same boat. Do you know if there are any meet ups near us? We're on the SuffolkEssex border? Sorry for my rant! :005: Thank you again for your help.  ;)

Offline Leo0106

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 334
  • Gender: Female
Re: Normal puppy, Cockerdile or genuine aggression?
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2018, 07:39:20 PM »
Hi digger.... maybe there's a thing about today ... is it a full moon?!?! We too have had an extremely testing day so don't feel alone!

Leo was on a rampage from 8am... He's not listened, he's nipped me, he's stolen the remote, he's tried to steal my dinner..... he went absolutely mad for about 15 minutes this evening and ran around the house barking, growling, trying to dig his way to Australia through my carpet!!! God knows what has got into him ..... I guess we all have good and bad days... this is my bad day... best advice I can give right now? Enjoy a good glass of wine and start new the next day  :005:

Offline Mudmagnets

  • Site Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8324
  • Gender: Female
  • My boys
Re: Normal puppy, Cockerdile or genuine aggression?
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2018, 11:41:26 AM »
Digger wrote Do you know if there are any meet ups near us? We're on the SuffolkEssex border?

Could you get to Woodbridge, I live in Lowestoft and go there to meet my sis at the garden centre, but I do know there is a lovely walk along the river Deben, it wouldn't be till the weather sorts itself out, probably March time, but if it helps!
Remembering Smudge 23/11/2006 - 3/8/2013, and Branston 30/8/14 - 28/10/22 both now at the Bridge.

Offline TheAdventuresofBarnaby

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
Re: Normal puppy, Cockerdile or genuine aggression?
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2018, 12:38:08 PM »
They DO grow out of it but at times the process seems to take forever.

Barnaby's now 13 months old and while he stopped play biting overnight when he turned 6 months old,  he continues to gently bite my forearm at times as a sign of affection,  or alternatively to tell me that he's hungry. I've seen other Cockers that do this.  He only does it to me and I'm not unhappy about it as he never hurts me,  so we've no plan to train it out of him.

He is very much in control of his bite inhibition now.  Last weekend while we were having a game of tug he accidentally bit my hand... there was no blood drawn but it hurt somewhat.  He was mortified,  stopped playing immediately and was kind of ashamed of himself for an hour afterwards... and I'd not chastised him for it at all.

Digger: We ( and Barnaby) will be back at our home on the NE Essex coast (Holland on Sea) for two weeks starting Sun 14th. Jan.  If you fancy a walk on the beach with the dogs please drop us a PM. (BTW  Barnaby's fine with other dogs,  both boys and girls,  so there should be no interaction problems from his part)

ATB   Jon  Sarka and the brown wirling dervish known as Barnaby