How to give it up!!!

[uplands]

This is Tillie - if she comes across something that she should not have she clamps her jaws so tight nothing will budge them.  No treat just nothing.  She does know the leave word when it comes to clothes etc., but if she scavenges something no chance. Any ideas 

[eljaybee1956]

I know exactly what you mean uplands. Jeeves has "lock-jaw" better than a bulldog's. Is there any really special treat you could offer  Tillie to swap for?  I have Jeeves at the stage where a very stern "Leave It!" gets the message across (especially handy when out walking and his nose hovers over other dogs doings (inconsiderate owner/handlers)  ). Patience and persistence are the keys...he will now leave a delicious treat, only inches away from his mouth, until he is told he can have it. Other than that my friend, I can offer no other advice....a more experienced COLer will be along soon, I'm sure.

[uplands]

 Thanks for your reply ejaybee Tillie will leave something if she hasn't actually got hold of it    for instance when we were out walking yesterday she came across an old sponge and before l knew it had grabbed it and that was it lock jaw until she was having a sniff at something else.  l tried with special treats to get her to give it up    lf l leave a treat for her she will leave until l say so, and leave my trousers/dusters etc., it is only if she feels she is getting something that she really should not have.  hard to explain really    So it could be something that is not good for her 

[eljaybee1956]

I suppose your initial reaction is to try and take the item from her?? This may be construed as "playing". Have you tried just ignoring her? Cockers hate to be ignored. I suggest the next time she gets "lock-jaw" (as long as the item concerned will not cause her any harm) ignore her, don't make a fuss and see what happens. Good luck.

[Karma]

Even better, become really really interested in something you do want her to have - a tasty treat for example.... rather than confronting her with a swap (which she is now viewing as a confrontation where she will lose her new item) put all your focus onto a treat on the floor - try not to let her see it... push her away gently when she comes to investigate - eventually she will be so desperate to get her paws on something that is obviously so fantastic that she will have forgotten all about the scavenged treasure!!! 
In the meantime work on a solid drop command - use low value items so that you know she will drop.  Very very gradually increase the value of the items, until it becomes absolutely reflexive no matter what is in her mouth!! 

[uplands]

Hello again

more help needed please.  Yesterday we had an incident with Tillie.  She grabbed some shopping that my daughter dropped from her bag and Tills got it and ran under a bush she would not come out with calling  and no one could get anywhere near her.  She became absolutely crazy - growling and barking and snapping  if we went near her.  Even me and l thought l would be able to calm her down.  l know you are not supposed to go into their space and she does like this bush area as it is cool ( l think she must have lots of things under it) but it was important to get this shopping of her.  Eventually my son got her out by getting hold of her  which l was against and put her into a quiet space. l thought she should of been left to get on with it and come out on her own accord but the noise was horrendus.  What worries me now is, is she becoming aggresive .  l have thought that she may be coming into season.  What would you have done with this situation.  Any ideas please. Just for info  we can sit on her bed, take her food, and she is very submissive with other dogs.  A pleasure to take out. It is just when she grabs something that she cannot have.  This also happens when we are out walking and if we take a ball .  We need 2 balls to get her to drop the first ball as there is no way she will give it up.  When there are 2 balls on the ground there is a race to see who can get to it first and she of course is the fastest ! and most times she gives a growl  if your hand gets near when this happens.  Help Please 

[SkyeSue]

Did you follow Karma's advice? If so, did you begin to see any improvement in her drop command?
I think that the situation you have described has really wound Tillie up. She so desperately wanted her prize, it was of incredibly high value to her, and the fact that you got a bit panicky (you were obviously desperate to stop her destroying the shopping, and your anxiety will have made her worse) will have all added to her behaving in the way she did.
I would definitely be trying to get her used to you being near her den, I don't know what others think, but perhaps you not going near it, will only exacerbate her resource-guarding 

[mcphee]

I only really have ever had the failing to give up with prey Rufus has caught. I now do not make an issue and let him bring it home and hide it. It is much too highly prized to make a fuss about. When he was young I had to make sure I removed temptation. I tried to leave shopping out of reach and tried to keep an eye on what was being taken out. Rufus will take things out into the garden, so if I see him go, I wait and recover it. If he thinks I am watching he will keep moving it about. Mostly he will give up greet objects, but the paper was taken out to the greenhouse just now. On the den front, I regularly clear Rufus's dens, so he knows I go there. Ok, his trophies eventually get put back, but my view is nowhere should be out of bounds for me. His crate should be his quiet safe place. Having said all of this, if he has got something dangerous, I will always get it from him. I give a firm command leave or give and if necessary put my fingers in his mouth. I am very fortunate as Rufus has never bitten anyone since mouthing was over, and then he wasn't bad. This tactic may not be safe for you if Tillie is being hostile.

[joanne_v]

She's not being aggressive but if you continue to react in the same with her and ignore her signals she may well escalate her behaviour beyond growling. You've ignored her warnings up til now which gave her no choice but to react in the manner described in this incident. Confronting a dog who doesnt want to give something up is the number one to end up wth a resource guarder. Unless something is going to cause her injury then do not under any circumstances try and take something of her or encourage her to swap or drop. You need to go right back to basics with her and earn her trust again before you can solve this. Rather than go into a long post on how to do it you're best bet is to either seek advice from a behaviourist via your vet or you could also try reading Mine! by Jean Donaldson which is focussed on resource guarding.

Dont panic, it can be done and is easier to resolve than a lot of behaviour issues!

[Karma]

I agree with Joanne that you really need to get a behaviourist in to observe her and your interactions with her.  It sounds like she could be developing some resource guarding issues, and continuing to confront her over this will only make things worse... 

I don't understand why you say you can get on her bed and you can take her food...    This really isn't the way to gain her trust, and if her bed isn't somewhere safe for her this is probably why she has adopted the area under the bush as her den.

Rather than taking her food off her (which will only serve to make her more worried that you are going to take everything else off her too) try adding tasty additions to her food... if necessary start by gently throwing them towards her from a distance... she needs to learn to associate you (and your family) as a provider rather than a taker-away... 

As far as the balls are concerned - just don't get into a battle with her - if 2 balls still create conflict, take 3... show absolutely no interest in the one she has and work to get her interested in the one you have... don't call her and show her the ball, but play with it yourself, try to hide it from her view, act like you are really enjoying the ball you have... she will soon lose interest in the boring one she has and want your really fun and funky one!!! (Believe me, we have been going through exactly the same issue with the balls... I can now get her to retreive a ball to hand when necessary, but we still use 2 balls for regular training sessions on balls, so that she is continuing to learn to reduce her focus on "her" ball and switch her focus to what I can give her!!).
Oh, and she was soooo obsessed to start with I needed about 8 balls in the garden to begin with, as she collected them all up into a pile!! 

Another thing we were advised for the balls was, rather than to throw the ball away, to actually get her to come up and take it from us, or to throw it to her to catch... this stops them seeing a ball as something you take away from them (we know we take it away to throw it for them, but they don't always make that connection!) and makes it something you give to them!

Good luck!!!
 

[ZoeN]

I've got a 4 month old Cocker, so I'm still learning as much as she is, but what I've found with Bess is that the more I try and take something from her, the more determined she'll be to run off or hang on to it. It's just a game. So as long as the item she picks up is pretty harmless, I ignore her, and she soon loses interest in it if I show no interest. If she picks something up I really don't want her to have, I quite forcefully grab hold of her (without shouting which would only forewarn her) and take it as quickly and with as little fuss as possible, and then ignore her. She has to know who is the stronger and more intelligent at the end of the day. Though this is probably easier with a pup than a full grown growling dog. I have taught her the leave command, which she does understand, but drop or give only works if I have a treat to offer as an alternative.

[Karma]

I think teaching a drop/give using a treat is far preferable to grabbing your little pup forcefully... 
All this is doing is teaching your pup to not trust you...    It took a few months of swapping for treats before Honey would give things up willingingly without a treat in sight, but she will do it now.. 

[SkyeSue]

drop or give only works if I have a treat to offer as an alternative.

I think that's ok personally. It can be a treat or a favourite toy or whatever reward works for your dog.

[JennyBee]

I quite forcefully grab hold of her (without shouting which would only forewarn her) and take it as quickly and with as little fuss as possible, and then ignore her. She has to know who is the stronger and more intelligent at the end of the day.

I completely disagree with this, forcibly grabbing your dog could lead to serious problems - what happens the next time she has something and she knows how you are going to react? Far better to use non-confrontational methods that have no chance of bringing about negative consequences

[ZoeN]

I understand where you're coming from. Maybe I phrased that wrong, but it was just what worked for me at the time. I haven't had any problems since, but if I do I'll make sure to use the give command with a treat and lots of fuss! Socks drying on the radiator are one of her favourites, but a quick 'no' before she grabs one works fine.