Bella Attacked By A Bull Terrier

[PennyB]

I feel the BT should have been muzzled too. If you know your dog is a risk to others in a public place, I think is inescusable. It was bad enough that is was your dog, it could gave been a child.

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A dog aggressive dog isn't necessarily agressive towards humans.

I agree with what Indiesnan says as I have more problems with a handful of inexperienced owners recently who've just got their 1st dog, which are labs. Poor Ruby gets frequently bounced by them and quite hard so it actually hurts her and she then gives them a good telling off and thats all it is a lot of noise (but I'm the one who gets the filthy looks from these owners as they neither understand dog behaviour in that Ruby's not aggressive and that she's very loudly telling them off).

[Emma&Harry]

unfortunately yesterday morning i got caught out. i went into the park with harry off lead and almost walked straight into a dog that we know doesnt like him (no reason, just doesnt like him) we met him the day before and harry wouldnt come back while the other dog was on his lead. Harry started to wind the other dog up by 'bounding round' - the other dog is on a lead for good reason, he wasnt socialised as a pup.

anyway harry started to bound round the dog which was off lead this time and again wouldnt come back when called (he has gone backwards again in training over the last 3 days). so the other dog went for harry, harry yelped a fair bit but i left him to it. the other dog was not being vicious just making moves that would scare and harry was giving in.

I apologised to the other lady, as clearly harry was not under control and her dog was trying (at the beginning) to say a 'polite leave me alone'.

harry hasnt been offlead since. not until I have 100% control of him. unfortunately harry doesnt take the hint so until he will come back when called i cant trust that he will respond to another dogs refusal to play, or 'requests to be left alone'. or anyone elses.

[PennyB]

Hi Claire

What a scary incident - glad to hear that Bella is relatively unscathed.

The whole on-lead/off-lead debate is a difficult one - if we never let our dogs off lead then they'd never learn anything about inter-dog relations, or how to obey our commands. There does seem to be different etiquette around the country though. I'm also in London and in most parks people seem to be generally understanding and want their dogs to socialise and let them meet and greet without getting panicky - however in other parts of the country I've noticed  people automatically put their dogs on-lead as soon as they see another dog coming, regardless of whether or not it's leashed. The law would always be on the side of the dog that is on-lead but I think it's upto the owners of aggressive dogs to warn people off well in advance if they can - the trouble is I think some owners of such dogs are either too embarrassed to admit how unfriendly their dog is or just keep their fingers crossed that "this time" it won't cause trouble.  I have to say though on a single walk in a London park we can come across as many as 35 dogs in the space of an hour - it's just not feasible to keep putting them on lead all the time just in case the other dog might be aggressive - it's more a case of being vigilant and second guessing from either the other dog or it's owner's body language whether their might be a potential for trouble.

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I meet loads of dogs on my walks as well (Cardiff has some big dog walking areas like any other large city), while I don't put mine back on the lead (unless we're on a narrow path with nowhere else to go or there are horses; and I very rarely see anyone else putting there dogs on and off leads) I do distract/recall them if they look like they're heading in said dog's direction whether dog is off/onlead (if offlead often owners will talk to you anyway and so your dogs end up socialising anyway). You can still socialise dogs if you use your commonsense but as you say you have to be vigilant (as while the dog might not be aggressive they may just not like your particular dog---Wilf hates one particular collie cross for some reason and so behaves very badly around him so we both put our respective dogs back on leads if we meet).

[Luvly]

x

[clairep4]

Just a quick update on Bella - she's been out with the dog walker this morning who said she wouldn't have had any idea that Bella had been attacked if I hadn't told her, as she was playing with all the other dogs just as if nothing had happened.

There is a BT in our local park that she plays with quite often so I'll see how she reacts to that next time we see it. Normally Bella is very astute about other dogs and will eye them up from a distance rather than going straight over to them (and these days she is quite discerning and won't go up to every dog she sees). Once she reaches them she will sit very still so they can have a good sniff, and she doesn't mind how long they take or how much they poke their noses around her "bits". If they give any kind of warning that they don't like her, she will readily lie down and show them her belly - I have never seen her try to challenge another dog, she's never even growled at one. That is why I am happy for her to be off lead, because I know she is sensible and very good at doggie language, and I know that if I call her when she is heading over to a dog on a lead, she will come back to me. Obviously if her recall starts to fail as she hits her teenage stage then I will keep her on a long line during that period as it's not safe having a dog that won't come back when you need it to.

I think the incident on Sunday was just very unfortunate, probably compounded by the fact that Bella saw a woman sitting on the grass with her dog so that was double temptation to start with, on top of which the woman watched Bella approaching and waited until very late to ask me to call her away, and the BT didn't give any warnings whatsoever, it simply lunged at her and bit her so there was no time for Bella to do anything other than defend herself, which she did very successfully. It may have been very different if the two dogs had met when they were both off lead but that's something I'll never know. I do think that the woman knew that her dog was going to react aggressively, and based on that I do think it would be wise for her to muzzle it in the future as certainly in London, you cannot be 100% sure that everyone is going to be able to control their dogs enough to stop them going over to hers. Luckily Bella is good at defending herself but in that park, you often see people with young pups as it's a great way to socialise them (2 weeks ago we were there and Bella played with a 12 week old staffie, a 4 month old jack russell and a 4 month old newfoundland, that was all on one half hour walk). I dread to think what would have happened if it had been a younger pup that had gone over to the woman and the BT    

I know if I was the owner of a dog that I knew could be very aggressive, and I chose to walk it in a place where I was going to meet 30-40 other dogs on a walk, nearly all of them off lead, I'd muzzle it - why risk it really hurting another dog, getting hurt itself, and possibly having to be put down if you were prosecuted? I just don't see that it's worth it. If Bella were to grow up into an aggressive dog I would certainly muzzle her.

I think the thing is that we can't always make sure 100% that something like this is not going to happen, even if we are all in control of our dogs, whether they are on or off the lead, all we can do is make sure we are in control as much as we can be, watch out for them and be courteous to other dogs/owners.

[Cob-Web]

Good to hear that Bella is non the worse for her experience  

I know if I was the owner of a dog that I knew could be very aggressive, and I chose to walk it in a place where I was going to meet 30-40 other dogs on a walk, nearly all of them off lead, I'd muzzle it - why risk it really hurting another dog, getting hurt itself, and possibly having to be put down if you were prosecuted? I just don't see that it's worth it. If Bella were to grow up into an aggressive dog I would certainly muzzle her.

I don't think you can say the Bull Terrier was very aggressive - I've seen wounds from an aggressive Bull Terrier - Bella would certainly have come of worse if it had been serious  
In any dogs training program, there comes a time when the muzzle has to come off in a public place; and if the dog is under control, there is no risk of prosecution.

[bluesmum]

Poor Bella, glad to hear she's ok and hasnt been affected by this at all  

Being the owner of a very nervous dog, I am always aware of other dogs around me and will always call Bailey and Blue to me if I see another dog approaching, I just think it's good manners to see for both dogs the situation before letting them go, if the other owner is happy for the dogs to play then I'll let them off, if not, I have both dogs in my care under full control.

If another dog came bounding over to Bailey being as nervous as he is I know he would be on the defensive but  why should I muzzle my dog? I have him under full control, it's the other owner IMO who should take more care and responsibilty to control their dog   I do everything in my power to ensure that my dogs are never a threat to others and although  some owners think that because their dog is bouncy and  playful it is no threat, to a nervous dog like Bailey it is!

I just think that we all as dog owners should not only consider our own dogs on walks but also other dogs too, not all are as friendly as ours    

Sending (((hugs))) for Bella and Blue and Bailey ssend cocker kisses her way too xx

[clairep4]

Good to hear that Bella is non the worse for her experience 

I know if I was the owner of a dog that I knew could be very aggressive, and I chose to walk it in a place where I was going to meet 30-40 other dogs on a walk, nearly all of them off lead, I'd muzzle it - why risk it really hurting another dog, getting hurt itself, and possibly having to be put down if you were prosecuted? I just don't see that it's worth it. If Bella were to grow up into an aggressive dog I would certainly muzzle her.

I don't think you can say the Bull Terrier was very aggressive - I've seen wounds from an aggressive Bull Terrier - Bella would certainly have come of worse if it had been serious  

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I have to disagree with you on that - the BT was being held by its collar throughout the attack, otherwise it would have been far more serious.

[PennyB]

It probably shows the dog had good bite inhibition

[scoobie]

Claire very glad to hear that Bellas none the worse due to a very bad experience You said she is a very confident dog and your very lucky that she is confident
Scoobie isn't a confident dog and although he's come on leaps and bounds over the years I still continue to work to help maintain and build even more confidence
I agree wholeheartedly with what Maria(bluesmum) says and although scoobie is fine with dogs he knows.. when a dog comes hurtling over and uses no doggie language/calming signals scoobie freaks and gets defensive.. but he has his own personal space that he feels comfortable in and if that's invaded by some rude dog ..that sets me back yet again to help him to realise that not every dog on the planet is after him It's just the way he is and Im pretty darn sure if someone ran towards me then shoved there face in mine and said hello they would certainly get a mouthful back off me because I too have personal space  I also want to say that I find  the dogs who just launch themselves at him I usually hear the owner shouting oh he just wants to play and I usually say did we invite you?
Little Bella sounds lovely and she certaintly doesn't sound like one of those in your face dogs

[Colin]

I'm pleased to say that neither Jimmy and Misty seek play by launching themselves at other dogs, if they did I'd be much more cautious about letting them go upto other dogs offlead. Misty used to do this as a pup but through off-lead interaction with other dogs learnt how to behave properly.

If I see a dog on lead approaching or an owner putting a lead on their dog when they catch sight of us then I'll either distract my dogs or put them on lead too. To be honest there doesn't seem to be a great deal of difference in the way any of us deal with this - although I'm still a bit amazed that some feel the need to leash their dog EVERY time they see another dog approaching regardless of the situation though, it just seems  a bit unnecessary to me but I guess we all as individuals make our own choices.

Going back to the Bella incident - one of the situations I try and avoid is letting my dogs approach other ones that are sitting next to their owners on the grass as some dogs can become territorial and also defensive when doing this, going into guard mode. I found this out the hard way when Jimmy got attacked (by an EBT too ) when he was called over by the other dogs owners to be stroked. I'm also wary when I first let them off-lead in the park as this is when they are at their most excitable so I try and wait until there's no other dogs in the immediate vicinity. I guess you tend to develop a sixth sense as to what's best to do based on your own dogs behaviour patterns and hope that other owners do the same.

[debrand]

I'm glad you and Bella are both getting over the incident-it is very fightening. I was interested to see people asking if people react differently with dogs depending on where you live. I live in a very rural setting so my dogs are limited in the strange dogs they come across (although they see many regulars) and as both get car sick I don't tend to take them too far in car. I am very wary of strange dogs because many of the farm dogs we meet are out without anyone with them and can be aggressive. I'm fortunate that I have a lot of land to let mt dogs exercise off the lead and they have my friends dogs and families dogs to socialise with. I realise that it must be very different for you and I really hadn't considered that. I could walk several miles with my dogs and only meet dogs that are tied up (very sad they look too) so it is a million miles away from your experience. I do hope Bella is OK!

[clairep4]

Bella used to go hurtling up to every dog and person that she came across (which is a nightmare in London parks as you can imagine, you can't go more than a few metres without someone being around!). I've worked very hard on her recall and it is now quite unusual for her to just charge up to someone - if I see her heading towards people I will call her back and she has been very good with this lately. She also doesn't normally charge up to dogs unless they are ones that she knows - she's had lots of off-lead socialising since she was 12 weeks old so is very good with doggie etiquette.

The woman with the BT was sitting on a slope and we were walking along a path fairly close to her, maybe 100 yards away when Bella started heading towards her. In hindsight yes, I should have called Bella back as soon as she started trotting over there, and that is something that I've learned from the whole experience.

Anyway thanks for all the good wishes for Bella - posting a pic of her on the photos bit any minute now and as you can see she is fine.  

[Pammy]

Bella used to go hurtling up to every dog and person that she came across (which is a nightmare in London parks as you can imagine, you can't go more than a few metres without someone being around!). I've worked very hard on her recall and it is now quite unusual for her to just charge up to someone - if I see her heading towards people I will call her back and she has been very good with this lately. She also doesn't normally charge up to dogs unless they are ones that she knows - she's had lots of off-lead socialising since she was 12 weeks old so is very good with doggie etiquette.

The woman with the BT was sitting on a slope and we were walking along a path fairly close to her, maybe 100 yards away when Bella started heading towards her. In hindsight yes, I should have called Bella back as soon as she started trotting over there, and that is something that I've learned from the whole experience.

Anyway thanks for all the good wishes for Bella - posting a pic of her on the photos bit any minute now and as you can see she is fine. 

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That's great news Claire. The big thing from any experience like this is for all to learn - not just those directly involved. We can all prepare and train our dogs to what we think is a good standard - and some manage extreme levels of control - if only  but they can always surprise us by doing the unexpected and catch us unawares.

I learned the hard way on this with my boys. I thought they were OK on recall etc - until they saw a field of sheep they could get into. I'd called them back and they came - very proud we were - then they had an immediate rethink and off they went. It was an awful experience so now we never let them off when we know sheep or anything they can run after are in the vicinity. Even so - Buddy can spot a sheep at the top of a mountain and off he'll go  But it was a learning experience and now we're always aware of sheep etc.

[kookie]

I still feel, if you have doubts about your dogs reaction to others, it should be muzzled in a public place.
My old cocker wasnt dog friendly, and while she wouldnt actively look for trouble, would go for a dog in passing, and for some reason she was worse with BT and that particular type of breed. She was rescued and we tried every thing to improve her. She was muzzled in public places. I have seen other spaniels who are muzzled. I'm sure a BT could do more damage than a spaniel. One of my friends had a SBT and it was a nightmare. Our dog was really friendly with people and theirs was too

We actually chose to go to very quiet places at quiet times to try and avoid as many dogs as posible. Yes, her recall was excellent, but there was always the fear that just once she wouldnt come back.
I'm sorry if people disagree with me here, I was thinking about other dogs and owners when I chose to muzzle her. I thought I was being a responsible dog owner.