Bella Attacked By A Bull Terrier

[bluesmum]

I'm sorry if people disagree with me here, I was thinking about other dogs and owners when I chose to muzzle her. I thought I was being a responsible dog owner.

I dont disagree with you at all Karen, if you feel your dog is a threat to others then yes I agree it should be muzzled  

But Bailey isnt a threat to other dogs, he isnt dog aggresive at all and plays happily with other dogs, it's taken me so long to get him that far and he now enjoys playing with other dogs   but he is a nervous dog and if a dog he doesnt know hurtled up to him then he would be frightened and get defensive, I have him under my control and he will totally ignore a passing dog, but if it decided to jump all over him then he would get scared and angry, I will not use a muzzle for someone elses irresponsibility on Bailey, why should I use a muzzle when the other owner should be responsible enough to use a lead if they dont trust their dogs recall   People who allow their dogs to do what they like dont realise how hard it is for owners of dogs like Bailey, it has taken me so long to try and gain Bailey's confidence around other dogs and it only takes one stupid owner shouting 'it's alright, he's only playing'! and let their dog come hurtling over and thats puts back all my training and hard work, I dont feel I am at any fault and I am a responsible owner, I am very responsible for the welfare of my dogs and that of others too, I cant be responsible for others if they cant control their pets though  

[Maria]

I still feel, if you have doubts about your dogs reaction to others, it should be muzzled in a public place.

I think we may all need to muzzle then, as I don't think any of us can be 100% sure of our dogs. We had an 'experience' yesterday, when a large staffy (pup as it turned out), run across a whole field to get to us. It's owner lamely called it, but it ignored her. I turned to walk back the way we'd come, but then realised it was too close. I called Boysie, as he was nosing about, and I didn't want him taken by suprise. Now this pup only really wanted to play, but Boysie is only interested in saying hello. When the pup started jumping over him, and putting his head over Boysie's neck, I could see he didn't like it, but the pup couldn't (or wouldn't) read his language. I called the dog's owner (who was still over 200 meters away), and she ambled slowly over. Meanwhile, I was seriously concerned that Boysie would attack- he had tried growling and chasing away, but it kept coming back, and he was now showing his teeth.  Luckily the owner turned up at that point, grabbed her dog, but then hit it   complaining that the dog was old enough to know it should come when called, and that one day he would get bitten. I tried to suggest she used other methods for recall, but she wasn't interested, and walked off shouting at her dog.
I have no doubt that if she hadn't arrived Boysie would have attacked, and that if I had tried to restrain him by holding his collar, it would have made him worse. I don't think that all dog agressive dogs should be muzzled, - if they are onlead / under control then it is our responsibility to try and keep our dogs away. I won't let Boysie oflead now until I can see who / what is around, I am wary of 'strange' dogs, and if I saw a dog on lead, and we were going to pass closely, his lead would go back on.

Glad Bella is feeling better and looking forward to seeing the pic.

[scoobie]

Maria I agree totally with what your saying but I think it's only when you have a 'not very confident'dog that you can truly understand this (scoobies exactly as you describe your bailey) and the amount of effort that I put in tellington touch,flower essences one to one training is just a tip of the iceberg and to have it ruined by some irresponsible owner who socialises there dog by allowing it just to hurtle up to scoobie at 30mph instead of a gentler approach doesn't help scoobie or me there is no way would I muzzle my dog because I knowhim and who knows one of these days the other 'in your face type dog' could object to Scoobie and the other dog could turn really nasty and scoobie has no other way of defending himself this probably making him a complete wreck..we have had a few confrontations but luckily nothing nasty just sounds worse than it does with gnashing of teeth but it still annoys me because of the irresponsible attitude of the dogs owner  
Luckily since moving to the country six months ago I have found the doggie ettiquette to be so much better having said that a few weeks ago just had a lovely walk and started walking back through the village when this cairn terrier came from nowhere and just launched himself at Scoobie I tried my best to chase it away and the owner of the cairn came out and said f*** off to his dog and muttered sorry to me I couldn't speak I just stood there and shook from head to foot and kept thinking all my hard work with scoobs is destroyed sounds like an over reaction but as you know it isn't
  keep up the good work with Bailey

[Annette]

I'm getting a bit confused here.

All in all It's a very interesting thread now, and I am learning lots. But what is the consensus of opinion regarding young dogs?

Up to now we have let Buddy approach if the other dog's owner seemed happy. Naturally at 5 months old he is a bit bouncy, but we are noticing that he is now picking up signals which we can't see, because sometimes he plays, sometimes he wanders off on his own.

I have an urgent recall set up with a whistle and cheese reward. So far (and I know he's pre-teen!) it's working really well. Today, for instance he was off after two dogs and turned almost in mid-air when I whistled and hurtled back to me. (doesn't do so well with all of us though )

To be honest I have only once met a lady who (apparently always) picks up her dog and scowls at anyone with a loose dog. And I'm pleased that Buddy seems to be maturing a bit in his approach etc.

Since this thread started I have been a bit more careful to check out the situation as we approach another dog. Now I would be careful to get control (with a lead if necessary) of Bud if I saw the other dog was on a lead. But should I be doing any more? Are there any other signs to look out for? Particularly when near owners who are trying to deal with very nervous dogs.

[PennyB]

Since this thread started I have been a bit more careful to check out the situation as we approach another dog. Now I would be careful to get control (with a lead if necessary) of Bud if I saw the other dog was on a lead. But should I be doing any more? Are there any other signs to look out for? Particularly when near owners who are trying to deal with very nervous dogs.

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Sounds about right really. I just play everything by ear and feel happy that I think I'm more of less doing the right thing at the time by making sure my dogs are not in anybody's face until they are happy for them to do so! (it can be just as much about reading human body language as it is about reading dog language). Mind you where I sometimes walk its not just dogs I have to deal with but cyclists with a purpose (racing their mountain bikes), waterspouts, old shafts, clay pits (small but steep), horses, and the odd trail bike (I can't usually get my two on the lead in time here as they're going too fast so I usually stop the bikes by jumping up and down in the middle of the path waving my arms---not very popular I know but my anger sort of boosts my confidence)!

Just by being courteous to other dog owners (and other users) in making sure your dog behaves (whether by training or using a lead) is the best we all can do, and this doesn't stop you being able to socialise your dog either.

You'll also find that other dogs are less tolerant of an adolescent dog's behaviour as they start to go through adolescence (Ruby will still play bow with the little pups but will tell off the adolescents yet is fine when they are adults). They're a bit like human ones at that age where they should know better but choose not to or still haven't quite grasped it. If nayone thinks puppyhood is challenging then adolescence in some dogs can be even more so

[Cob-Web]

I don't know about your locale, but doggie ettiquette here is similar to that of "human"/"dog" ettiquette - I wouldn't pet someone elses dog without permission from its owner, any more than I allow Molo to greet another dog without the same permission  

It has never stopped Molo socialising, but stops him putting himself in risky situations, and being a nuisance or worse    As a pup, he did not fully understand the nuances of doggie language and so could easily have misread a situation and got himself badly hurt  

My "rule of thumb" is to call Molo back as soon as I see another dog either loose or on-lead. If on-lead, I short-leash Molo, as his recall is not yet reliable. If the other dog is off-lead, I will watch the other owner, and dog, and as soon as they are within earshot, I call to ask the owner if the other dog will be OK to play "as Molo's still very young". If the other owner calls their dog back, and leashes them, I do the same. Very often they have done it for the same reason that I have, we let them off to play together, and they have a ball    But I would rather err on the side of caution  

When Molo was a puppy, on lead, he was seriously "roughed up" by a doberman that was running loose on the park. The dobie was muzzled, which the owner seemed to think was good enough "control". I confess it was the only time I have ever screamed abuse in public  ::  - and only after I had asked him twice, politely, to call his dog off

[Looking for Speedy]

I am sorry about your dog I hope she is okay. In Vernon BC where I live we have a few off the leash dog parks, regardless though I think if the lady knew her dog was not good with other dogs she shouldn't have brought it there where there were other dogs    

[clairep4]

I am sorry about your dog I hope she is okay. In Vernon BC where I live we have a few off the leash dog parks, regardless though I think if the lady knew her dog was not good with other dogs she shouldn't have brought it there where there were other dogs   

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Thanks - that's my opinion as well, it is a particularly busy park with lots of dogs off lead, and I think if you have a dog that is that worried about being approached by another dog that it will jump at its throat as a first and immediate reaction, then it's probably not the best place to take it - even though ideally we would all be in control of our dogs all the time, and yes in the future I will make sure she doesn't go running up to a dog that is sitting with its owner like this, but there are always going to be dogs that will approach a strange dog (eg in my local park last night when Bella was approached by at least 5 or 6 dogs she'd never met, all off leash (she was off leash too) and this is pretty average for her walks). Bella seems to be pretty much okay and is playing with other dogs much as before, although today at the vet's she could see a dalmation through the glass and it was staring at her in a not very friendly way (the owner actually covered its eyes later, as we came out of the consulting room to go past it, so it was obviously not very good with other dogs) and she started growling - she's never done that before so unfortunately I think she is going to be a bit difficult around some dogs now. It's a real shame because she was fantastic with them before this happened, so we're going to have to really watch her progress and make sure she doesn't get in any threatening situations...

[Annette]

How is Bella now, Claire?

[clairep4]

How is Bella now, Claire?

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Hi Annette,

She's okay in herself but (not sure if you read the post above) she did growl at a dalmation that was staring at her this morning - she's never growled at another dog before. I'm not sure if it's just a teenage thing (she's started guarding the house etc as well lately) or if it's to do with the attack, so I'll just have to keep an eye on her and will be keeping her well away from any bull terriers - not necessarily because I think they're all bad (I don't) but I don't want her to feel threatened, and as I've found out with her standing up to the BT that did attack her, she's a fiesty little girl despite looking like a complete softy so I'm not sure whether she'd just avoid another BT or go up to it being growly in self-defense (if that makes sense) - don't really want to find out either...

I must admit I'm being alot more cautious on her walks now - keeping her on the lead till I've really had a look around. Last night as I got into the park there was a guy who is always there with his 5 dogs (off lead), 4 retrievers (off lead), a beagle (off lead), an old black spaniel (off lead), a dachshund (on-lead and he's a friend of Bella's) and a collie (off lead) all in the first 100 yds, so as you can see it gets pretty busy! I kept her on the lead till she'd had a look & I'd seen how the dogs were interacting, and then let her off. She approached the group of dogs cautiously as usual and then when the dogs started coming to meet her (about 4 of them at once - she just sat down to let them have a look at her) I just made sure I stayed close to her and called her away after a few seconds. She came straight away  and then went back to have a little play with one of the retrievers. I then took her to a quieter part as I was a bit nervous (for the first time since I've had her) of her being around 8 or 9 big dogs that she didn't know, and we had a lovely game with her frisbee. She then got approached by another big collie that I didn't know and whose owner was miles away, very half-heartedly calling him back (he wouldn't come). I called Bella away (and she came back straight away although she had been playing with the dog) and the dog kept on following us until eventually the owner came and got him.

This is a pretty typical walk in my local park at that time of day (7.30pm), so as you can see it's quite hard to ascertain what is going on sometimes, but I have at least learned to excercise more caution when walking Bella and will be keeping a closer eye on what is happening from now on, and definitely not let her approach people sitting down with their dogs.  

By the way there's a new pic of her in the Puppies bit of the photos.

[scooby's mum]

Hiya Claire

Only just picked up on this thread as I've not been on for a couple of weeks (been so busy).

It's unbelievable what happened to your poor little Bella - bet you were absolutely petrified    So glad she's OK (a very lucky girl I'd say).

Since Scooby was attacked and run over (he was 5 months at the time) I've only let him off lead twice.  I know this may sound OTT but I really can't pluck up enough courage to let him off.  Both times he's been fine but there have been no dogs around whatsoever and I'm just too nervous to let him off near other dogs.  

I feel that that one experience has ruined it for us forever and can't see me ever being able to just let him go.  I watch people with dogs and really envy them.  Hope your experience doesn't ruin it for you  

Also, just read about Bella having a plate fitted - Scooby has got exactly the same problem.  We've had his mouth looked at a few times by the vet and they just want to remove the bottom canine that's causing the problem.  I'm unhappy with this and have asked about him being referred to a dentist but, unfortunately, my insurance company (MoreThan) have said that we are not covered as they won't pay out for anything to do with dental work unless it's caused by an accident.

Have you had any trouble being paid out?

[Annette]

Thanks for that. Yes I had read the post, I was just wondering about the bruising etc.

How is Bella now, Claire?

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I must admit I'm being alot more cautious on her walks now - keeping her on the lead till I've really had a look around.

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I think many of us might be being a bit more cautious now. Not so much out of fear, but in my case, at least, I have now realised the importance of checking the other dog(s) and owner(s), whether on/off  lead, expression etc before alowing Buddy to approach.

It's a learning curve!

[Luvly]

x

[Sue H]

Having read all the replies to the original post, I can sort of see both sides of what happened, but I do tend to sympathise more with Bella that anyone else ....

Both my Cockers have been suddenly attacked and bitten,  rolled and generally frightened out of their skins by other dogs - the owners are always soooooo defensive, and they ALWAYS say either  'Ooooh, he's never done that before!!!' or (as in Bella's case) 'Keep your dog away from mine!' when they are like 2 feet apart, and your little Cocker is already wagging its happy way towards its dooooom!

A pair of GSD-crosses used to regularly cross our path, and to be honest, if it wasn't for the owners yelling and fussing, they would probably have been okay, but they used to haul them around and make a big thing of grabbing their collars and walking them past us so that only their hind legs were touching ground ...  no wonder the dogs thought that an encounter was something weird ...  The first time we all met and they made such a big thing of 'keep your dogs away or else they'll have 'em ..' I said well why don't you muzzle them them, and at least they can socialise and play and once they realize they can't intimidate by biting they may be okay - their response was 'What, muzzle them? Then they would come off worst!'  - I said that they were only assuming that everyone else's dogs were as chopsy as theirs, but they clearly would rather continue letting their dogs potentially chomp anything they meet rather than stop them having the ability to do so.....

There used to be one or two other culprits on our regular local walks, but thankfully all the dogs at present seem fine ... It is quite funny swapping stories with other dog owners though, and when you warn them about a certain dog/s, and say that the owner said 'He's never done that before..' and they say 'Oh we met them a couple of days ago, and it happened to me, and they said exactly the same thing !!' ... well ....!!!!!!

[Penel]

This reminds me of a time when I saw an unfriendly GSD approaching - it had previously attacked both my dogs - sooo I put mine on lead - GSD approached - owner not even seeming to notice that their dog was zooming round and round me snapping at my dogs - I was shouting "please control your dog" and she shouted back "its yours that are out of control - I've heard about your dogs " lol !!!    some people are just really unbelievable !!!  thankfully we don't see her anymore !