Author Topic: Advice on guarding  (Read 4060 times)

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Offline bessymate4eva

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Advice on guarding
« on: October 26, 2017, 02:04:43 PM »
 Chester has started to guard in my brothers bedroom  ph34r. It all seemed to start getting progressively worse after we took him to the vet to get his teeth sorted. He seems to guard everything in the room im not sure if he is actually guarding my brother as he seems fine with him. He won't let anyone else in the room. He growls and gets really distressed. Even if he isnt in the room he will run past you to get there first and then start to growl. I've tried throwing the treats at him gradually (as this has worked before) but it doesn't seem to settle him. He has had behaviour problems in the past but nothing like this. Does anyone know any good behaviourist in the northumberland area? Also probably a silly question but how can you tell if a behaviourist is a reputable one?

Online Mudmagnets

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Re: Advice on guarding
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2017, 02:22:48 PM »
Just wondered if there is something like a toy or treat hidden in the room, like under the bed or furniture that he is guarding?
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Offline bessymate4eva

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Re: Advice on guarding
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2017, 02:35:42 PM »
We have looked and can't see anything. Although when my brother went to work this morning he guarded for a little bit after then suddenly wasn't bothered about guarding the room at all  :huh:.

Offline hoover

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Re: Advice on guarding
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2017, 04:24:33 PM »
My first thought was that it might be something in the room too.

I would try to stop him going in there to be honest, so that he is unable to go into guard mode in the first place.  If this isn't possible just with the door then maybe a toddler gate over the entrance.  Of course that may not be a complete fix as he may choose to guard that area instead. 

If he is fine with your brother then it sounds like he has to have the role of telling the dog what is acceptable behaviour and instructing him away from the area if he starts displaying that sort of behaviour.  This is how we used to work things with Ollie anyway...if he was on the sofa or bed next to one of us and started guarding from the other coming to the sofa then the person coming to the sofa could not safely tell him to get down without escalating the situation.  The person already sitting there could however make it very clear that the behaviour was not acceptable and order him down and to the kitchen for time out.  If he ever showed this sort of behaviour we were strict about not allowing him up again for some time and now it's not a problem behaviour for him at all.

Offline bessymate4eva

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Re: Advice on guarding
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2017, 04:42:13 PM »
My first thought was that it might be something in the room too.

I would try to stop him going in there to be honest, so that he is unable to go into guard mode in the first place.  If this isn't possible just with the door then maybe a toddler gate over the entrance.  Of course that may not be a complete fix as he may choose to guard that area instead. 

If he is fine with your brother then it sounds like he has to have the role of telling the dog what is acceptable behaviour and instructing him away from the area if he starts displaying that sort of behaviour.  This is how we used to work things with Ollie anyway...if he was on the sofa or bed next to one of us and started guarding from the other coming to the sofa then the person coming to the sofa could not safely tell him to get down without escalating the situation.  The person already sitting there could however make it very clear that the behaviour was not acceptable and order him down and to the kitchen for time out.  If he ever showed this sort of behaviour we were strict about not allowing him up again for some time and now it's not a problem behaviour for him at all.

Thankyou for the advice Hoover we will see if that works with him hopefully 😊

Offline Ben's mum

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Re: Advice on guarding
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2017, 04:43:32 PM »
Sorry you are having problems with Chester guarding, living with Harry who is a guarder I know it an be challenging and sometimes worrying when they show behaviours that frankly look quite scary! 
 
With the greatest respect to other posters I don't think its as simple as letting him know it unacceptable behaviour and putting him in the kitchen, in Harrys case any attempt at handling would escalate the situation and potentially lead to a nip/bite from him. You ask about good behaviourists, which is key you do need someone experienced with guarding behaviour and cockers who can see what is going on.  Its worth contacting Topbarks (Mark) who is possibly too far from you but he may be able to recommend someone with the right skills who is more local to you.

hope you can get something sorted so you are all happier  :luv:

Offline hoover

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Re: Advice on guarding
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2017, 05:04:43 PM »
Everyone can only speak from their own experience, and we, unfortunately have had more experiencing with multiple guarding behaviours than I would wish on anyone.  We have also been fortunate to overcome some very serious problems, and I relate what worked for us, knowing full well how situations escalate suddenly.  We also saw and came to understand the dynamics of each occasion, and how, especially with location-based guarding that often involved another already being present in the same location as the dog at the same time - that person was safely able to help regulate the dog's behaviour when the person coming close to the location was not. I also believe this had the long term positive effect of letting the dog know that in general, this is not the sort of behaviour we hoped from him and he was able to internalise this general rule and diminish his guarding in general.

Offline hoover

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Re: Advice on guarding
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2017, 05:27:11 PM »
Also note in my response there was no 'handling' involved. The person sharing the location was able to use their voice and give instructions to Ollie to get down or to move away and then into the kitchen, and tone of voice was enough for him to take the instructions seriously.  This also depends on having spent plenty of time training the dog with verbal commands and treats, building the relationship with them and knowing that you have reliable follow through on them for the dog to be able to act on the instructions in more stressful times.

Offline Ben's mum

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Re: Advice on guarding
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2017, 07:50:28 PM »
Rightly or wrongly I just feel guarding is a potentially serious issue and can escalate and best left to trained and experienced behaviourists who can see what is happening and get a full picture of the whole situation.
I always think what we can do on COL is share experiences and offer moral support when things are tough.

Offline hoover

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Re: Advice on guarding
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2017, 10:28:36 PM »
I agree, guarding is a serious issue, and I think unfortunately most people learn this first hand from direct experience. One or 2 episodes of experiencing it directly is enough for anyone to tread very carefully after that and seek advice.  There are plenty of people living day to day with dogs that display guarding behaviours that can not afford, or are uncertain about getting a behaviourist in, and they might benefit from hearing other people's stories of similar situations and using their judgement and their understanding of their own situation to see if they can safely apply or adapt any of the solutions that have worked for others.

A good behaviourist is a good bet, but not every behaviourist is good, or hugely experienced, or positive-only, or effective, and moreover their presence in the home environment adds another dimension to the interactions and behaviours so that it is hard to accurately re-create the scenario you are attempting to resolve - would any of us behave in the same way when monitored by a stranger in our homes?  I'm not dismissing good behaviourists and there are plenty that will do effective analysis of the situations through detailed discussion on the phone prior to visiting. I hope the O.P gets hold of one that works for them.

Offline lynnemcneil

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Re: Advice on guarding
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2017, 12:02:05 AM »
Guarding is a really serious issue and it’s also really difficult to know where to take advice from. Our working cocker is 8 months and started guarding about 6 weeks ago, unfortunately it’s nothing specific....toy, food, person, area....he’ll even come running to you excited for affection if you walk in the room and if he has food or a toy in his mouth he’ll growl! We’re at the point where my smaller kids are terrified of him and the rest of us are also scared at times. Anyway, I suppose my point is that I’ve spoken to loads of people about our nightmare and probably got 100 different pieces of advice!! We got a Behaviorist in 2 weeks ago though (expensive!) for advice as despite trying things the problem has just been escalating. I think what we have realised is that consistency is the most important thing. We have exercises and procedures to follow, pretty much at all times, and are hoping with fingers crossed that this works. Unfortunately, after thinking we were getting somewhere this week, he charged my 12 year old tonight when he was sitting in the couch ( although didn’t bite him). Gave him and the rest of us a fright. I’m hoping to persevere though and hopefully get through this and get our happy puppy back! Good luck with the bedroom guarding, consistency, perseverance and good advice I hope is the key.  I’d welcome any reassurance that we’ll all get through this!


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Offline Ben's mum

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Re: Advice on guarding
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2017, 12:42:15 AM »
Anyway, I suppose my point is that I’ve spoken to loads of people about our nightmare and probably got 100 different pieces of advice!! We got a Behaviorist in 2 weeks ago though (expensive!) for advice as despite trying things the problem has just been escalating. I think what we have realised is that consistency is the most important thing.
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I think thats my point there are always people willing to give advice, some good, some bad, but a behaviourist despite being expensive should know what they are doing. I think i always would use Mark as first point of contact just because he has so much experience with cockers and knows how they tick!
There are lots of people on here who have had guardy dogs and who have done brilliantly with them, we manage Harry really well, but don't have children around so our situation is different.
Good luck with geting issues sorted   :luv:

Offline Karma

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Re: Advice on guarding
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2017, 08:55:59 AM »

It's also worth posting on a group called "Dog Training Advice and Support" on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=dog%20training%20advice%20and%20support

It is a heavily moderated group - posting is turned off when there is not admin around to answer, all posts are subject to admin approval, so it's always Admin who respond first.... but most helpful for this situation is that they have a list of approved trainers/behaviourists and will advise you of reputable professionals in your area.  It's headed up by the (now semi-retired) founder of the dog training school we used with Honey.


Honey has major tendencies to guarding (and we have 2 small children).  We find her guarding increases if she's under the weather or feeling more stressed in any way - she first port of call should be a trip to the vet to find out if something is triggering this episode.

What really helped us was not focussing on the guarding so much, but channelling her mental energies into other things, while at the same time training a really good retrieve, so we could initially swap stolen objects for a treat, but gradually built to getting her to retrieve the item for a reward! 

There were a lot of other small changes to our approach which helped, but mainly reducing the threat we posed to stolen items.... and while guarding still happens, it's very much more half-hearted and less of a risk!!!

With good management, it's definitely possible to come out of the other side (even with children in the picture) - but it really needs someone to watch your dog's behaviour and really assess the triggers (and your dog's personality) to come up with a management plan tailored to your dog! :)
Remembering Honey. Aug 2007-July 2020

Offline phoenix

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Re: Advice on guarding
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2017, 08:40:19 PM »
Of many dogs in my life, the  only guarder has been the cocker. And I mean serious , potentially  dangerous guarding. COL saved his life with advice and comfort for me. I raised the question here last year on whether it was a mental problem like autism, because the dogs I've read about , like mine,  had no obvious trigger.  The tv dog trainer Victoria someone, shocked us all when she advised an owner to have their guarding cocker PTS.   You CAN modify the circumstances at home, your own handling of the situation, distracting the dog, ignoring its antics like I did. However, as you know, you can't expect visitors and children to understand.  You must have rules.
My mantra everyday was 'Don't stare at him in the eye,  don't leave anything on the floor, don't escalate  the situation. Walk away or turn sideways, and they will Give up.
Once the adrenalin is raised,very fast like this, they are beyond reason. Let them have space to back out of their own trap.
Despite this, my boy was the love of my life, and gave love back in barrow loads.
I emailed TopBarks, I'm sure he'll still help.  A good trainer is worth the money. I am using one for another dog, and the cost of seeing him for an hour a month is less than weekly group lessons, and it's all about you.
RIP Marti  the EPI springer age 12,  and beloved black cocker Bobby, 8 yrs old, too soon, from PLN.
Now owned by TInker, tiny hairy grey poodle/terrier rescue from Greece and Jack, local rescue,   scruffy ginger terrier mutt.

Offline hoover

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Re: Advice on guarding
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2017, 08:52:48 PM »
Guarding is a really serious issue and it’s also really difficult to know where to take advice from. Our working cocker is 8 months and started guarding about 6 weeks ago, unfortunately it’s nothing specific....toy, food, person, area....he’ll even come running to you excited for affection if you walk in the room and if he has food or a toy in his mouth he’ll growl! We’re at the point where my smaller kids are terrified of him and the rest of us are also scared at times. Anyway, I suppose my point is that I’ve spoken to loads of people about our nightmare and probably got 100 different pieces of advice!! We got a Behaviorist in 2 weeks ago though (expensive!) for advice as despite trying things the problem has just been escalating. I think what we have realised is that consistency is the most important thing. We have exercises and procedures to follow, pretty much at all times, and are hoping with fingers crossed that this works. Unfortunately, after thinking we were getting somewhere this week, he charged my 12 year old tonight when he was sitting in the couch ( although didn’t bite him). Gave him and the rest of us a fright. I’m hoping to persevere though and hopefully get through this and get our happy puppy back! Good luck with the bedroom guarding, consistency, perseverance and good advice I hope is the key.  I’d welcome any reassurance that we’ll all get through this!


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I think age 8 months or so is definitely around the hardest time - in our experience anyway. Our dog displayed seemingly contradictory behaviours, perhaps similar to the ones you are describing - for example being very keen to bring a toy to us and crawling onto our laps only to present with fiercely guarding behaviour seconds after that point.  We realised that when he was bringing a favoured item to us we needed to direct him away immediately before he could get too close. If he kept coming we would stand up to stop him coming to our laps.

Everyone will have different experiences and opinions on this but we strongly believe neutering dramatically reduced the guarding issues Ollie had. The turn around in behaviour was too sudden, I believe, to be attributed to anything else.  The extent of the ferociousness and the duration of attack decreased in a very pronounced fashion. But it was certainly not a cure- all and training is a central part of the picture.   I don't know what your situation is regarding neutering and like I say everyone thinks differently here.

We neutered at about 10 months I think and a few weeks after things were definitely on the up, and I think in most people's experiences they tend to gradually improve around this age anyway as the dog becomes more mature and able to regulate their own behaviour.  We haven't nailed the resource guarding completely - this is managed through environment and the level of response is much more half-hearted and playful now although we don't test it. I would say it is at 10% of what it was.  Location guarding is pretty much entirely gone as far as I can see unless he is exceptionally tired.  The body handling issues which I believe often present at the same time as other guarding issues are pretty much entirely gone now too after careful training which needed both of us to be present (one to occupy the teeth with treats!)  So there was light at the end of the tunnel for us and I hope there is for you and others too.  (Ollie is 2 and a bit years now)