what the vet said

[*jean*]

I think its just our vets personal choice and some vets will still dock but not unless you are registered with them. Up here that means a vet who could be 80- 90 miles away not practical really. the last litter of strathfleet cockers havent been docked and at least half are going to trialling homes all over the country so it hasnt stopped people wanting them. also when pups are of docking age you dont always know which ones will be going to working homes  so how do you know which ones to dock.?
 the local msp up here is a keen shooter and I think he is going to be fighting it.  we will have to wait and see.
Its a wonder they havent tried to get us to stop docking lambs tails.

[Annette]

the docking will have to be done by the vet and the pups will have to be microchipped at the same time and registered to the breeder

Can they be micro chipped that young then? Our pups were supposed to be chipped at 7 weeks but the vet refused to do it. 

Buddy was chipped at 7 weeks.

[Cob-Web]

Its a wonder they havent tried to get us to stop docking lambs tails.

There are current campaigns by animal rights organisations to stop this, too 

[Helen]

the procedure they have been advised is as follows:

 the docking will have to be done by the vet and the pups will have to be microchipped at the same time and registered to the breeder - this is as a measure to ensure the docking is carried out as per regulations.  new owners will obviously need to change the chip so it registers to them

Will breeders of working dogs have to register their intention to breed workers in some way, so allowing vets to dock, or will it be on an ad-hoc basis?

i'm not sure rachel - from what i was told it would seem registering a working litter will be done in tandem with KC registration and the vet will have to take on some responsibility for the docking, hence the microchip associating the working registration to the breeder. 

it's apparently a lot of paperwork (and confusion!) which is deterring a lot of working cocker breeders and vets  from docking (and i personally prefer un-docked so i'm just passing on the info here.....)

it will be a lot more problematic to dock part of a litter and not all so my assumption is that it will be easier not to dock at all

[Rhona W]

by the looks of it yes...i'm assuming if dogs can be surgically docked by a vet at an early age they can micro-chip too (rhona i'm guessing at this - pups are usually docked within the first day - 3 days of life.  if the regulations say they must be chipped i don't know if they will be done then or at 7 weeks.  I can't imagine they will be expected to be taken back for a chip unless it's with 1st vacc??? dunno really....)

I was pondering chipping under anaesthetic then but they don't use one for docking do they? I think the vet said they were too small at 7 weeks, or the needle was too big.   Don't know really and it's a bit off topic any way. Sorry.  

yes they just get the last 3rd off a lot of folk think my dogs have whole tails. even tho peppers tail gets really puffy after a hard day out and Im just dreading the day it starts to bleed as when they wag it non stop the blood just sprays everywhere. so far shes been ok fingers crossed. my gamekeeper pal has two undocked springers both who may have to have there tails amputated as they are a mess a lot of the time. It looks shocking. spaniels seen to be harder on their tails than other breeds. I dont think non working dogs should be docked however just for the look of it.
 another thing my dogs do is rip their tongues when out. blood everywhere. it will just be a small cut but the blood!
 and peppers eyes are always getting irritated with the heather. steroid drops sort that.

Well that is enough to put me off trying mine at working.   I'd never even thought about them damaging their tongues.

[*jean*]

I think It depends what kind of ground the dogs are running through up here its heather bracken brambles and whins ( gorse) thick whins. if its parkland they will be fine.

[Helen]

I think It depends what kind of ground the dogs are running through up here its heather bracken brambles and whins ( gorse) thick whins. if its parkland they will be fine.

and you can't stop a working cocker when it's doin' what it's bred to do - they will keep on keeping on no matter what happens and loving it!

it's only at the end of the day when they stop that you see what they've done to themselves.....

[*jean*]

helen you are so right !  my dogs, well pepper mostly, are always injuring themselves ,she once ran for 5 miles with a stab injury and she was so mud covered we couldnt see it until we were almost home. she didnt even slow down. she had packed leaves mud and all sorts of muck into the hole she had poked into herself.. ( forestry) we knew she had done it at least 5 miles back by the stuff the vet pulled out of the pocket shes made under her skin. ie pine stuff...  she still doesnt slow down at 8 and a half.

[ali]

we were talking about this with barkley's breeders when we took him back for a visit recently as his tail is a fair bit shorter than his mum's or the pup that the family have kept. we think he ended up losing about half of it if most of the pics of workers with 2/3 of their tail on here are anything to go by. personally i'd love him to have a full tail but the breeders had personally seen what injuries can occur to undocked working dogs in the field. as both parents work they assumed that some, if not all, of the pups would also do so and didn't want to risk the same injuries happening to them. i hate to think that the process caused my pup pain, and there are times when he's trying to get to the end of his tail and i feel sorry for him that he can't, but ultimately i think they made the right decision for this particular litter.

persumably it would be rather harder on a dog to wait and see what type of work it is likely to do before you dock it? i'd always assumed that they are more aware of things as they grow up and would find the experience more stressful, but i'm completely prepared to be proven wrong as i have no experience of new born pups...

[Helen]

i can't say about the pain threshold of docking - i have read many conflicting reports...i really don't know 

i do know that tail injuries in adult dogs can be really awful, and it is difficult for a tail to mend so often tails need to be docked surgically regardless.

i can't say about the frequency of this and i know a lot of working dog breeds that aren't docked and don't have problems.  i really really can't say yes or no to docking....

i'm hoisting myself up onto a very high fence that i shall sit on.......

[Cob-Web]

i'm hoisting myself up onto a very high fence that i shall sit on.......

I'm up here with you Helen...........

[Rhona W]

and you can't stop a working cocker when it's doin' what it's bred to do - they will keep on keeping on no matter what happens and loving it!

Oh I know they would love it just by watching them 'on the scent' of something in the woods or chasing the pigeons in the field. But from a woosie owner's point of view, I wouldn't want them to get hurt.  And they are undocked.

Personally, for pet dogs I am against docking. But as I have no experience of working dogs, I'll reserve judgement and join you on your fence. 

[ali]

that fence seems like a pretty good place to be!  

i was always completely against docking until we decided to get a working cocker and had the pros and cons from their point of view explained to us. now i don't have a clue.   i'm just very glad that i'm not a breeder and don't have to make the decision myself!

[Cob-Web]

and you can't stop a working cocker when it's doin' what it's bred to do - they will keep on keeping on no matter what happens and loving it!

Oh I know they would love it just by watching them 'on the scent' of something in the woods or chasing the pigeons in the field. But from a woosie owner's point of view, I wouldn't want them to get hurt.  And they are undocked.

I think they are just as likely to get injured in this way as if they were doing the same thing as a working dog.....aren't they?

Molo has had scratches, thorns, seeds etc - and he's show strain; fortunately, he has never been seriously injured, but I know its a possibility - and unless I prevent him doing what comes naturally, or restrict his walking to manicured parks, then it's one of the risks of being a dog owner of this kind of breed 

[Rhona W]

and you can't stop a working cocker when it's doin' what it's bred to do - they will keep on keeping on no matter what happens and loving it!

Oh I know they would love it just by watching them 'on the scent' of something in the woods or chasing the pigeons in the field. But from a woosie owner's point of view, I wouldn't want them to get hurt.  And they are undocked.

I think they are just as likely to get injured in this way as if they were doing the same thing as a working dog.....aren't they?

No I don't think so. They chase birds across an open field and the woods we walk in are not dense. They are certainly not going through the sort of countryside that Jean was describing. The biggest danger on my walks is from the stinging nettles.