what the vet said

[Jane S]

I naively thought that show cockers were also docked in case they hurt their tails during 'working', but of course, the reason they are docked is for fashion only...

If only it was so black and white! Not wishing to get into the whole debate on docking again (it's been done so many times before ad nauseum!) but show-type Cockers are still capable of working and some do still. There remains a small number of Cocker show breeders who remain very enthusiastic about retaining their dogs' working abilities and in other customarily docked gundog breeds, there are even greater numbers of dual purpose breeders (those who both work and show their dogs). It remains to be seen what affect the forthcoming ban will have on those breeders who will have to effectively choose between showing and working their dogs.

[Helen]

and you can't stop a working cocker when it's doin' what it's bred to do - they will keep on keeping on no matter what happens and loving it!

Oh I know they would love it just by watching them 'on the scent' of something in the woods or chasing the pigeons in the field. But from a woosie owner's point of view, I wouldn't want them to get hurt.  And they are undocked.

I think they are just as likely to get injured in this way as if they were doing the same thing as a working dog.....aren't they?

Molo has had scratches, thorns, seeds etc - and he's show strain; fortunately, he has never been seriously injured, but I know its a possibility - and unless I prevent him doing what comes naturally, or restrict his walking to manicured parks, then it's one of the risks of being a dog owner of this kind of breed 

working cockers when they work, work all day.  not a 1 or 2 hour walk.  they are on the go through all terrain and over fields, through fences, over sharp flints, in heather, brambles, gorse, stubble fields.  you can tell when a working cocker is working - their body language is completely different and they will not stop if they get hurt. it's almost as if their pain threshold has been turned off.

it really is completely different to a pet gun dog on even it's most energetic walk.

as jean says they will go and go injuries or not.  having been sprayed by a gashed wagging springer tail after a shoot i can understand why some breeds of working dog are docked.  

on the why aren't all working dogs docked - well labs have a completely different tail, far less likely to be damaged, and they don't move half as quickly and adeptly as working cockers do.

i'm sliding off that fence a bit....

[*jean*]

Unfortunately its not just tails that get hurt..
barbed wire is a bad thing. pepper once ran headlong into some and then thrashed her way out of it she cut herself around the head but luckily missed her eyes. crofters are the pits at leaving old barb lying hidden in brackens when they put up a new fence.it drives me mad!
 another injury pepper had.. she scents head down, never hardly looks up, she ran full on into a stone. I thought she broke her neck. she couldnt stand kept falling over her back legs were gone.
 raced her to the vets yet again ( call out on a saturday...luckily the vets a mate. ) she just had concussion but her uncle died doing the same thing he hit a dyke. died instantly.
 my dogs are pets mostly but they dont know the difference between an ordinary walk and working. the instinct is so strong in them they quarter away while I walk up behind them. mind you if I lived somewhere a little less wild their hunting instincts might not be so strong. I get asked to do the weirdest things with them.. tracking deer was one and searching for lost hens was another... mr fox had them, pep found the evidence.

[Rhona W]

Whilst some Cockers (show type) are docked way too short,

I would have to agree with this. I have seen some show cockers with tails so short that they didn't even cover their modesty. (If you get my drift!  )

Whereas I still like my pets to be undocked, I can understand the reasons for docking working dogs. 

I would just like to say that I have found this thread very interesting, informative and thought provoking. And it has been nice to be able to discuss an emotive issue without the thread descending into an argument (to put it politely). 

[henaly]

i agree, it has stayed very civil which is unusual so thankyou everybody for your comments and insight into this subject.

[*jean*]

we are a friendly lot!!!

[Magic Star]

Whereas I still like my pets to be undocked, I can understand the reasons for docking working dogs. 

I would just like to say that I have found this thread very interesting, informative and thought provoking. And it has been nice to be able to discuss an emotive issue without the thread descending into an argument (to put it politely). 

I agree, its been great that a thread about the subject has been left open for discussion, I think we have all learnt something   I  prefer all dogs to keep their tails tbh, but if I had a spaniel that worked, then I may well have a different viewpoint

Interesting you mentioned about the labs tail Helen, as I always wondered that myself, now it makes sense

Good thread everyone

[debbie321]

I feel I can add my reply now that it's not a 'heated debate'!  Ben is a working type but is kept as an active pet.  He was docked before I clapped eyes on him at 2 weeks.  His tail is fairly long as in the worker tradition and I have to say I'm glad that his tail was shortened. 

He may be a pet dog but he does the hunt in the scrub thing with enthusiasm - his tail is like a helicopter blade even in the middle of a bramble bush.  If he had a full tail I'm sure he would have injuries. 

Having said that - if I had a choice I would have gone for the full tail as I don't like the idea of docking in general - but can see the reasoning behind working dogs tails being docked.

Boy - am I sitting on the fence or what 

[shonajoy]

I was delighted to find out that our practice hasn't docked for twenty years.

We also have a good few real working dogs on our books, and I have only ever seen one with significant tail damage - I asked the vet recently and he agreed it was rare, in his exprience.

[lyn]

paddy is undocked and i love his long very hairy tail
ellie is docked and i love the longish twirly bit on the end of hers
so i suppose that because i know very little about docking and have one of each i have to say i don't know if i agree with docking or not.
paddy's tail makes a great coffee table duster and ellies makes a great nose tickler

[BigJim&Kate]

you can tell when a working cocker is working - their body language is completely different and they will not stop if they get hurt. it's almost as if their pain threshold has been turned off.

it really is completely different to a pet gun dog on even it's most energetic walk.

So true, Bails & Milley are so different on there walks, Milley knows what she is looking for and she is determined to get it !! Bailey just like to have a sniff around  When we got back from our walk on Sunday Milley started Limping, she had some how gashed her leg. But she didnt start limping till we got home 

[Joules]

i agree, it has stayed very civil which is unusual so thankyou everybody for your comments and insight into this subject.

Yes, it makes a pleasant change!  I think it is how the majority of us would like it to be!! 

[AnnieM]

Our springer Briar who we lost earlier this year, had a third dock, even so she was always ripping the end off her tail, I think once it has ripped it must become weaker.  No matter what we had done we could never keep her out of the undergrowth and most of our walks are in the countryside so wouldn't stand a chance.  Amber and Jade are just the same, so I personally am extremely glad that my two are docked, although not as long as Briars being show type, they are not as short as some I have seen. 

I know I will probably get shot for this, but living in the countryside and knowing lots of people with springers, I am all for docking working breeds.   

I can honestly say that I think lots of vets don't realise the extent of the problem as many farmers/country folk are hardy and don't bother taking the dogs to the vets for every little thing.  We were given some powder first time Briar did hers and never took her to the vets after that with it, we just treated her ourselves. 

[Helen]

Our springer Briar who we lost earlier this year, had a third dock, even so she was always ripping the end off her tail, I think once it has ripped it must become weaker.  No matter what we had done we could never keep her out of the undergrowth and most of our walks are in the countryside so wouldn't stand a chance.  Amber and Jade are just the same, so I personally am extremely glad that my two are docked, although not as long as Briars being show type, they are not as short as some I have seen. 

I know I will probably get shot for this, but living in the countryside and knowing lots of people with springers, I am all for docking working breeds.   

I can honestly say that I think lots of vets don't realise the extent of the problem as many farmers/country folk are hardy and don't bother taking the dogs to the vets for every little thing.  We were given some powder first time Briar did hers and never took her to the vets after that with it, we just treated her ourselves. 

agree annie -  i don't think 1/2 the injuries to working dogs over the season are treated by the vet.  Most are cared for by the owner ('hardy' is a good word for it) around here.