Author Topic: Please read todays Daily Mail!!!!!  (Read 6682 times)

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Offline Cob-Web

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Re: Please read todays Daily Mail!!!!!
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2006, 11:42:35 AM »
I have mixed feelings about it; obviously, it is awful that a qualified vet has such bigoted views, its not a surprise as he has always maintained this view  ::)

Sadly, it will mean more cockers are given up to rescue, and *sold* in classified ads, as families who believe the myths perpetuated get rid of their family pet for the safety of their children :(

However, part of me thinks that just maybe, it will mean that some of the other breeds in rescue that have been targeted by the media in the past will be easier to rehome, which is a good thing......... :-\
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Offline Luvly

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Re: Please read todays Daily Mail!!!!!
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2006, 11:50:20 AM »
 ph34r
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Offline Jeeves

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Re: Please read todays Daily Mail!!!!!
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2006, 11:51:19 AM »
What absolute twaddle!!

The man is clearly a buffoon!

Jeeves was a red cocker and the sweetest, gentlest little dog on earth.  Poppy (a friends cocker who stays with us regularly and is here just now) is black and again, she's the sweetest little dog I have ever met (Parker excepted of course!!)

It makes you wonder what qualifications the man has!!!
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Offline kb

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Re: Please read todays Daily Mail!!!!!
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2006, 12:05:11 PM »
Is it in today's edition of the paper?

I didn't know very much about cocker rage when I got Honey - but then people every where started to say to me about the golden cocker thing. I was really worried. The vet said that some solids were a bit more difficult than others, but on the whole she found it was down to the individual training and so on. She said in general cockers needed a firm hand as they were a bit "bossy" and she would recommend puppy training. But then she said she would recommend puppy training for any dog ;).

When I mentioned the cocker rage thing to our puppy trainer, her reply was "What cocker rage thing?" - she was deliberatley making the point that she did not feel it was a cocker thing, but that any dog, poorly managed could have problems.

Everything poor Honey did - I thought about cocker rage. However this site was a godsend, because I soon discovered that if Honey had it tehn so did every other dog on here, at some time or other. Because everyone was discussing similsr problems. I then decided that actually every cocker did not have it, but that Honey's behaviour was normal puppy behaviour. But I had been miserable because of ideas that those who did not know had put in my head :shades: >:(

i see now I had nothing to worry about - she is still strong willed and sometimes needs a frim hand - but what dog doesn't . I have to say though I am still often relieved though when I hear of another breed doing something naughty :005: ;)

I do feel a little but sad though that i let the rumours of cocker rage cast a shadow of my enjoyment of her as a pup sometimes :'(

Offline CraftySam

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Re: Please read todays Daily Mail!!!!!
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2006, 12:48:09 PM »
Is it in today's edition of the paper?

I didn't know very much about cocker rage when I got Honey - but then people every where started to say to me about the golden cocker thing. I was really worried. The vet said that some solids were a bit more difficult than others, but on the whole she found it was down to the individual training and so on. She said in general cockers needed a firm hand as they were a bit "bossy" and she would recommend puppy training. But then she said she would recommend puppy training for any dog ;).

When I mentioned the cocker rage thing to our puppy trainer, her reply was "What cocker rage thing?" - she was deliberatley making the point that she did not feel it was a cocker thing, but that any dog, poorly managed could have problems.

Everything poor Honey did - I thought about cocker rage. However this site was a godsend, because I soon discovered that if Honey had it tehn so did every other dog on here, at some time or other. Because everyone was discussing similsr problems. I then decided that actually every cocker did not have it, but that Honey's behaviour was normal puppy behaviour. But I had been miserable because of ideas that those who did not know had put in my head :shades: >:(

i see now I had nothing to worry about - she is still strong willed and sometimes needs a frim hand - but what dog doesn't . I have to say though I am still often relieved though when I hear of another breed doing something naughty :005: ;)

I do feel a little but sad though that i let the rumours of cocker rage cast a shadow of my enjoyment of her as a pup sometimes :'(

kb I couldn't agree more.  ;)

From the moment I told people I was getting a red cocker I was hit with a barrage of comments about at best he would be snappy and at worst he would have rage.  >:( Then someone, who knew a cocker breeder, had told my mum that reds were awful and snappy but blacks were wonderful.  ::)
I actually posted on here about this just before getting Barney as it threw me into a blind panic.

Like you, everything Barney has done I have worried endlessly about and I still do. Far, far more than things my other two did as pups.

I get on very well with my vet and when I took Barney in for his first vaccinations I'd told her what had been said. She said that she had alot of solid cockers as patients and all of them were lovely. She believed that alot of behaviour is determined by how they are treated and trained. I'd said how worried I was, and the analagy she used was that if 99 people told you that you were beautiful and 1 person told you that you were ugly, you immediately think that you are ugly. And she is right.

While researching cockers, of course Rage came up. I spoke with my trainer about it, who had very much the reactions of yours kb. She'd looked into the so called evidence that Roger Mungford had written about, as part of her degree in Animal Behaviour Science. Apparently alot of his research isn't carried out in a scientifical way. My trainers view was very much like yours, behavioural problems can affect any breed and alot of problems occur because owners of small dogs very often don't continue training as they would a larger dog. I've paid particular attention to this in our classes and alot of the time Barney is the only smaller dog, all the smaller dogs that did puppy class have never been seen again. Her advice was to buy from a reputable breeder and train as I had my others.

I would say that Barney has thrown up more issues than my other two, but I also think part of that is because I am so sensitive to anything he does too. But he is a very loving, soppy dog. I've commented on another thread recently about a sudden change in snapping at few dogs which started 3 weeks ago and I'm working on, apart from that other things have all been resolved very easily.

In the park this week with Nicola and Alfie a lady stopped us ask why Barney was docked and Alfie wasn't. After that she asked what the red one was like as they are often nasty.  >:(

Its articles like this that people who don't own dogs, like all of my family, will read and will now say "well we told you he'd be snappy and nasty".  So when my neice hurt him and he snapped, he's now labelled as a nasty dog by them.  :'(

Any dog, of any breed or cross breed can have problems. I think it wholly irresponsable for him to perpetuate his sweeping comments about two colours of one breed.  >:(
Sam is mum to - Sapphi (working black Lab 5 1/2 yrs), Max (Golden Retriever 4 yrs) Morgan (American Cocker 2 1/2yrs) and mum in spirit to Barney (English Cocker 3 1/2 yrs now living in Scotland)

Offline PennyB

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Re: Please read todays Daily Mail!!!!!
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2006, 01:12:17 PM »
Any dog, of any breed or cross breed can have problems. I think it wholly irresponsable for him to perpetuate his sweeping comments about two colours of one breed.  >:(

He's also in the past suggested any cockers, regardless of colour, shouldn't be homed with families with children at all. I hate his approach to this when actually he should be saying what he says in his lectures on bull breeds etc. about the importance of training/handling correctly and socialising rather than putting fear into people as this way the right message gets lost.

The other thing is I do think that because they are cute and small cockers have the image of being really easy dogs who could never be bad, which they are if you train them etc and so are shocked if they do things which may just be quite normal for the stage the pup/adolescent/dog is going through and needs to be gently trained out of --- they think they don't need to do any training or socialising as their cuteness is enough (butter wouldn't melt dsort of thing) and then overspoil them and get a brat of a dog. I think for some families they have found they aren't easy dogs but they themselves don't have a clue why they aren't and something like this just provides the right sort of info to give them the labels they were looking for.
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Offline Miss Poohs

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Re: Please read todays Daily Mail!!!!!
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2006, 01:17:23 PM »
OMG - he was the guy that treated my Paddy for destructive behaviour way back in 1993 - ohhh if only I'd known  >:D  ph34r

Offline LouiseAS

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Re: Please read todays Daily Mail!!!!!
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2006, 01:40:34 PM »
I've not read the article nor am I going to because having just taken on a dog that has become a 'problem' because of lack of training, socialisation etc, I get too emotional.  I was a wreck after the Benjy incident.

I also have a red one who also gets a bit of a verbal bashing from uneducated people.

I bet he'd have my 2 put down!!!  >:D

Louise & my beautiful girl Meg xx

Offline kb

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Re: Please read todays Daily Mail!!!!!
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2006, 01:44:05 PM »
You see i have been thinking about this - and dogs are dogs ;)

When you take any dog into your house - you are potentially taking in a weapon that is capable of harm. Now that probably sounds a bit dramatic - but dogs are dogs. They don't think the same as us because they don't have the same thought processes we do. Now that involves both humans and dogs adjusting to living together in a mutually acceptable way. We, being the part of the relationship, that is able to make decisions and so on, obviously have responsibility for facilitating the appropriate relationship.

If you are not in a position to do this you should not have a dog in your home, be it cocker spaniel, bull terrier, yorkshire terrier - what ever! Because they all have a potential for difficulty. Now I don't profess to have a degree in animal behaviour, but this is common sense - it should apply to any animal.

In every breed there is the potential for "rage" - but it very much depends on what you perceive rage to be. Rage however is not a dog who has bitten after provocation, where noone has stepped in to deal with it. Every dog will have a different level of tolerance for certain situations - as we humans do. Good training will recognise and deal with this.

In my opinion, "rage" syndrome is completely different to this - it is often unprovoked and out of character for the animal - with the chances of someunderlying cause being very probable.

Every individual must know their dog individually. You must know its capabilities and responsibilities and prevent behaviour by training and management.

Dogs are dogs - they act the way nature tells them to. It is not reasonable to take on a dog and expect it to be something other than that. There is no easy option ;)

Offline JackieD

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Re: Please read todays Daily Mail!!!!!
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2006, 02:17:42 PM »
I agree with Louise, I am not going to buy the paper to read the article, I am still a bit emotionally raw over the Benjy affair.
We are eagerly awaiting the birth of our soon to be (hopefully a safe delivery) second four legged addition  :luv: he/she is going to be a Black cocker, I have no pre conceptions that he/she will have rage syndrome, I am no expert at training, Maddy is a boisterous bundle (blue roan) she was a bit snap happy bitey when we got her at 17 weeks but with good handling she no longer does it, I can take food from her bowl and pretend to "share" some, her recall is still not exceptional but on the whole she is wonderful.
Roger Mugford and his biggotted ideas would never put me off any colour cocker, as has been said unless there is some underlying problem, any dog's personality will be as good or bad as it has been taught how to be by the owner.
I too thought cockers must be easy little dogs to train, that was till I research fully the breed before having Maddy, they are hard work but the love and willingness to please you get in return for that work is priceless.
Perhaps Roger Mugford should be looking at a carreer change !!!!!!! Maybe as a car park attendant  :005: He would have a wonderful time handing out parking tickets randomly. No wish to offend any car park attendants  ph34r

Offline michelle123

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Re: Please read todays Daily Mail!!!!!
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2006, 05:08:05 PM »
I am not going to buy the paper, having read everybody elses views it would just annoy me.  Plus it will line the pockets of the Mail and would probably encourage this buffoon to write for them again.

Offline cindere528

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Re: Please read todays Daily Mail!!!!!
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2006, 05:24:01 PM »
I've only just seen this thread, so it's too late to buy the paper anyway.  I know someone who has a black cocker who is the softest animal anyone could wish to meet.  One of my 2 rescue cockers is a black & tan and I am told that black & tan is a "solid" colour, therefore, if all black cockers have "rage" then she has it too.  What utter rubbish.  I've only had Nelly for a year and previously she had been abused but she doesn't have a "rage" bone in her body. She is far more likely to lie on the floor with her legs in the air than to bite anyone.  She can be pretty ferocious with her tail wagging, and for that reason I'm glad she's been docked - she'd be deadly with a full tail  :005:

As someone else said, all breeds of dogs can be susceptible to "rage", but true rage is extremely rare.  I once read an account written by someone who had a dog with true rage and it sounded extremely frightening.  I can't remember what breed of dog it was though, but it's like a brainstorm, the dog gets a faraway look in its eyes and truly hasn't got a clue what it's doing. 

All cockers can be possessive about toys, food, beds etc, but this has to be trained out of them as soon as they start to show these traits.  My very first cocker used to refuse to get off the bed and I was the only person who could move him.  He went for my ex-husband on more than one occasion (wise dog  :005:) but that was lack of proper training on my part.  It was not rage.

Offline suzysu

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Re: Please read todays Daily Mail!!!!!
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2006, 06:30:29 PM »
...what a shame  :'( ...our poor lovely cockers do get some knocks dont they  >:(

Havent read the article yet, but will get a copy from a friend tommorrow and have a look  ;)
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Offline Jane S

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Re: Please read todays Daily Mail!!!!!
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2006, 06:31:46 PM »
It makes you wonder what qualifications the man has!!!

His full title is Dr Roger Mugford BSc Phd and he's an animal behaviourist/psychologist. He also owns the Company of Animals (suppliers of haltis, kongs etc). Shame he's come out with this old guff as a lot of what he says in interviews etc in defence of dogs is good but he seems to have tunnel vision when it comes to discussing Cockers sensibly.
Jane

Offline *jean*

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Re: Please read todays Daily Mail!!!!!
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2006, 06:38:24 PM »
does his theory include liver cockers? ph34r




I wont tell Rolo if it does!! ;)