Don't know what I would do with a nasty dog.

[HeatherandBenjy]

Why do we have this situation nowadays?  I remember when dogs got to roam during the day when your dad went to work and they would meet other dogs and sometimes they got on, sometimes they didn't.  A dog fight was not the end of the world and sometimes taught your dog some manners for meeting a dog the next time.  Dogs were never on a lead - at all- ever!  If fact, I don't even remember our dog having a lead.  

So why nowadays are we putting up with dogs which are biting children and aggressive to each other?  I don't think dogs like this have a place in modern society and I would PTS an aggressive dog and if fact have done.  

But some dog that have bitten children it has been completley the owners fault and COL'ers have rehomed dogs who were about to be PTS for bitting children and those dogs are completley safe when looked after properly

Thank you Jo! I have a dog that has bitten people (including myself), he had a horrible life for his first three years being very badly mistreated by his alcoholic owner. He came to us as a last ditch attempt (his appointment to be pts had already been made for the following morning). He had learnt in his first home that growling, snapping and giving other warnings didn't work, that left him with his teeth....

We have worked very hard with this little lad. I don't take ANY risks and we walk in quiet places and he goes back on the lead the instant I see another person, dog or livestock.

We have worked through him being terrified of teatowels, terrified of sticks, terrified of anyone going near his collar. I  now have a dog that trusts me and who runs to me for protection if he is frightened.

The reason why I put up with his sometimes tempermental (and at other times extremely loving) behaviour is because he's not nasty, just very frightened. At four years old, I didn't think he deserved to die for that.

[KellyT]

M & J aren't aggressive at all, and they have had situations where we've met other dogs off the lead and things started friendly and ended a little rough, with M & J belly up or trying to hide behind my legs.

I have to work hard to make sure I catch their attention before they reach what we call 'the point of no return' that is to say they can sometimes turn into those dogs that bound up to you whilst you're walking with your dog on a lead - at which point I die of embarrassment but only have myself to blame ...  recall practice is required - I whole heartedly hold my hands up and say I must go and do it... the annoying thing is ... when there's no other dogs it's 100% successful everytime ...  

Millie will get vocal, and woo's at people and their dogs, but usually whilst bouncing around like an idiot with her butt wagging. Jennie often is unsure how to react .. however she does have a nasty habit of barking at me, and jumping up at me, trying to get my attention on her when I'm talking to another person/dog owner or maybe fussing another dog.  She went to puppy classes and sees lots of family / friends etc.

It's almost insecurity rather than aggression, but sometimes people misread it, and I'm not 100% sure how to deal with it    I guess I ought to start another thread on that!

We will avoid people and other dogs though when possible, because the ensuing insanity is sometimes a bit much, they do settle down and are fine after about 2 minutes... but avoiding is easier though it probably doesn't help Jennie deal with whatever anxiety she has.

[Crazy Cocker Gang]

Why do we have this situation nowadays?  I remember when dogs got to roam during the day when your dad went to work and they would meet other dogs and sometimes they got on, sometimes they didn't.  A dog fight was not the end of the world and sometimes taught your dog some manners for meeting a dog the next time.  Dogs were never on a lead - at all- ever!  If fact, I don't even remember our dog having a lead.  

So why nowadays are we putting up with dogs which are biting children and aggressive to each other?  I don't think dogs like this have a place in modern society and I would PTS an aggressive dog and if fact have done.  

But some dog that have bitten children it has been completley the owners fault and COL'ers have rehomed dogs who were about to be PTS for bitting children and those dogs are completley safe when looked after properly

Thank you Jo! I have a dog that has bitten people (including myself), he had a horrible life for his first three years being very badly mistreated by his alcoholic owner. He came to us as a last ditch attempt (his appointment to be pts had already been made for the following morning). He had learnt in his first home that growling, snapping and giving other warnings didn't work, that left him with his teeth....

We have worked very hard with this little lad. I don't take ANY risks and we walk in quiet places and he goes back on the lead the instant I see another person, dog or livestock.

We have worked through him being terrified of teatowels, terrified of sticks, terrified of anyone going near his collar. I  now have a dog that trusts me and who runs to me for protection if he is frightened.

The reason why I put up with his sometimes tempermental (and at other times extremely loving) behaviour is because he's not nasty, just very frightened. At four years old, I didn't think he deserved to die for that.

I feel completely safe around your dogs Heather and as you know have no problems with them being off lead around my dogs, you have worked wonders with them  

[lindseyp]

lovely post Heather      

The reason why I put up with his sometimes tempermental (and at other times extremely loving) behaviour is because he's not nasty, just very frightened. At four years old, I didn't think he deserved to die for that.

......me neither 

[Ben's mum]

lovely post Heather      

The reason why I put up with his sometimes tempermental (and at other times extremely loving) behaviour is because he's not nasty, just very frightened. At four years old, I didn't think he deserved to die for that.

......me neither 

  from me too - I think this is a really good discussion to be having as it does help people who are lucky enought to have an understand that dogs who are  sometimes have good reason.   

[dogsgalore]

[ from me too - I think this is a really good discussion to be having as it does help people who are lucky enought to have an understand that dogs who are  sometimes have good reason.   
[/quote]



I agree, as someone whose dog has good reason

[tallulah0710]

I have a beautiful black lab who has fear agression issues.  She is so much better these days, but that is after 2 years of hard work and many tears on my part.  On more than one occasion I thought I couldn't cope and didn't know what to do.     I now understand that she isn't a nasty dog - just very scared.

Before I found help with doggie people who taught me how to handle and work with her to give her confidence and a better understanding of the big wide world, people may have thought I was an irresponsible dog owner.  She would lunge at other dogs when on lead, and sometimes off lead too, although I now know it was all handbags at dawn and never full blown agression attacks.  But try explaining that to someone you meet casually who doesn't know your dogs history.  It is a very difficult position to be in, so I always try to be aware that sometimes people are acting in a defensive manner because they need help with their dogs.  No excuse for rude behaviour though!  My cocker certainly has lots of brains - too many for her own good sometimes!  And she has been a saviour to my lab, helping her to see that the world is actually quite fun if you just chill out a bit!!

This sounds just like my rescue Harley and what we went through. 4 years of dreading walks etc, with the lunging and barking out of fear! We found doggie people too and now he's much better (he has people fear too though!) Now we have our cocker pup poppy and she seems to be helping him to socialise even more. He's even my inspiration for going back to college and doing a foundation degree in Canine behaviour.

[Jan/Billy]

So why nowadays are we putting up with dogs which are biting children and aggressive to each other?  I don't think dogs like this have a place in modern society and I would PTS an aggressive dog and if fact have done. 

So is that your solution then? Lets just put them all to sleep?  Why? What has modern society got to do with it?

[Ben's mum]

So why nowadays are we putting up with dogs which are biting children and aggressive to each other?  I don't think dogs like this have a place in modern society and I would PTS an aggressive dog and if fact have done. 

I'm sorry but I find this statement quite worrying, not to say upsetting, I'm so glad my Ben didn't go to a home where he would be PTS because he has 'issues' and can be agressive to other dogs 
There are lots of reasons why a dog is agressive as previously discussed in this thread and there are some brilliant, dedicated and caring owners doing their best to live with and manage agression issues, but it is made so much easier when other dog owners understand and respect what you are trying to achive.

[Karma]

I've been following this thread with interest...  

Saffysmum - you do have a point, and it's the first part of your post that is a major point - dogs do not have the freedom to roam that they used to have... they spend far longer confined and rely on owners to create opportunities for socialisation and exercise... a lot of owners don't do enough to meet this need, and a bored, under-stimulated (or possibly a better phrase is inappropriately stimulated) dog can easily become an aggressive dog.  The more aggressive dogs there are out there, the greater the chance that an appropriately cared for dog can develop behaviour problems because of being attacked... so the problems spread...
In the past dog fights weren't problems of aggressive dogs, they were "handbag" fights to sort out differences of opinion and social standing... very different to any dog with aggression issues.

As the owner of a dog who could easily have been described as "nasty" by owners of other dogs she grumped at in the past, and the daughter of someone who has a seriously dog-reactive Border Collie (caused by aversive training methods), it is VERY trying to walk a dog with issues... it has taken a lot of work to help Honey with her confidence issues, and to learn when she is justified in telling another dog to get lost (and when she isn't!).  It can be very demoralising, and you can get to the point where you dread meeting another dog on a walk... fortunately with some great advice from here and a lot of work from us, we have got Honey to a point where, while she might be grumpy, she can generally deal with situations - I am more confident that when she grumps she has a good reason to do so, and I know she isn't going to escalate into full-on aggression.  But there is still an element of stress to walks - if I see a dog I know she's likely to lose patience with I admit I get a sense of dread (because of the other owner normally failing to acknowledge that their dog is rude...   ), and I don't trust other people walking her, as they won't read her body language and get her out of situations she can't handle.  I have learned a few stock responses to owners who react as though Honey has eaten their precious little dog (non-confrontational responses, along the lines of "Oh, she really doesn't like her bum being sniffed" or "She can be wary of really bouncy dogs" so that I am acknowledging her behaviour but explaining it rather than blaming anyone...) and I find that helps keep my stress levels down.  

[Liz F]

lovely post Heather      

The reason why I put up with his sometimes tempermental (and at other times extremely loving) behaviour is because he's not nasty, just very frightened. At four years old, I didn't think he deserved to die for that.

......me neither 

   

Me neither,
Some of us are lucky to have dogs that dont have issues and some of us have dogs with issues, or in my case one of each 
If our dogs do have issues then they deserve for us to try to solve them or deal with them correctly 

[Jan/Billy]

If our dogs do have issues then they deserve for us to try to solve them or deal with them correctly 

Exactly.


I know that some dogs have issues that for one reason or another cannot be controlled/improved and that in some cases the kindest thing is for them to be put to sleep. However, I do think , that as their owners , we owe it to them to first try and establish what is the cause of the unwanted behaviour and help the dog overcome its issues. If the owner is prepared to take responsibility for their dogs behaviour the dog being PTS isn't the only option.

[Cockertime Blues]

So why nowadays are we putting up with dogs which are biting children and aggressive to each other?  I don't think dogs like this have a place in modern society and I would PTS an aggressive dog and if fact have done. 

I was wondering if your specs are a bit rose-tinted?  Dogs did bite children back in the 50's, if that's around when you're talking about.  I'm one of them.  When you are 7 or 8 years old and a mad collie comes barreling out of a farmyard at you with teeth bared, it is terrifying.  Likewise an Alsatian (as we used to call them) and 50+ years later I still can't go near GSD's with confidence.  At the time it just seemed to be a fact of life for an 8 year old to be walking a couple of miles on her own in the country and to run into trouble - don't suppose it happens any more.  Have to say though I've been chased by a bull, a herd of stirks, a boar and a huge flock of turkeys as a child, but nothing  so terrifying as a dog.  So I'm quite glad dogs no longer have the same right to roam, not that they could today anyway - too much of a traffic hazard.

Where do you draw the line for euthanising an aggressive dog and who makes this judgment?  For some it could be a single warning growl for hoicking it off the sofa (dogs have been handed into rescue for rehoming for no more than that), whereas others would take that in their stride and deal with it.

[saffysmum]

Actually I meant only as far back as the 80's.  We had a Alsation who got put out in the morning and met me coming off the school bus at 4.  Everyone did it only as far back as then.  It was a black lab that tried to bite me and a collie that did.  The collie was my fault as I threw my arms round his neck and my dad wouldn't let the owner PTS.
I suppose it is the difference between breeds/size of dog.  I have had an aggressive cocker who has bitten and was that way because she was a puppyfarm reject.  She died peacefully at 13 and never did I consider PTS as her aggression was managable.
My other breed was Akitas till very recently.  I had always trained and sociallised my dogs properly but my last dog had mental issues.  He first attempted to bite a person at just under a year old.  He hated other male dogs but would 'put up with' bitches.  I couldn't have this dog in the house as he didn't like people coming down the stairs and would re-act everytime.  Strangers were a no go so holidays were out as we couldn't take him and couldn't leave him.  In the last year, his behaviour got more unpredictable and he snapped at the cat for walking past but then he attacked the 3 spaniels.  Actually, he was only going for the pup but the other 2 girls got in the fight to stick up for the pup.  I pulled him off and he tried to bite me.  I took him to the vets that day which broke my heart.  I had arranged my whole life around this dog for 10 years due to his aggression and it wasn't till he was gone that I realised how bad he had made my life.  Sounds terrible, doesn't it.  But for the first time in years, I am enjoying my life and my dogs.  I would never own an aggressive dog again.  But an aggressive cocker?  That would be easy-peasy after that large breed.
All I was meaning was the difference between large breed aggression and smaller breed.  After all, the OP was talking about Dally's in the first place, not cockers.