working cockers/show cockers

[bondie]

There have always been cocker spaniels in my family - (my parents had cockers before they had me - and I'm not confessing to how many years ago THAT was!!!!), but they have all been the "show" type. Suddenly (?) everyone from my niece to the Duchess of Cambridge seems to be owning working cockers. I saw my first worker 5 years ago - and now wonder  why they have become so popular - are the number of show cockers in decline? Apart from being more energetic and having longer legs, is there any other fundamental difference? I talked to a chap the other day who had a cross between a show and a worker.........what is happening to our traditional cocker spaniel ?

[Rolo12]

I'm biased but we have a working cocker pup and he is the best! They are like little collies trapped in a cocker spaniels body! 

Very athletic, intelligent and quick to learn. I couldnt decide between the two types before we got Rolo but he suits us down to the ground - workers make great pets! Also, he is already looking promising for agility and flyball when he is older!

I guess it depends what you want! Of course i love the show cockers too! 

[Nicola]

- workers make great pets!

Hmm, some do but many don't, as proven by the increasing numbers of them ending up in rescues in recent years. There have been some sad stories on this forum over the years of people taking on highly driven working type Cockers and not being able to cope with them.

Of mine one would make an ok pet dog - Tilly - but then again she's almost 8 now and has health problems and she loved working before her health disallowed it, she was a great picking up dog. Rodaidh wouldn't be ideal, he thrives on working, and Caoimhe would be a nightmare but she is an OFTW trialling dog.

There are many, many more working Cockers around now than there used to be, certainly in Northern Ireland where I grew up you would never have seen one on a shoot when I was a teenager (I'm 31 now), it was all Springers and Labs. I don't know if show Cockers are in decline as such though. I work with both types (at Hearing Dogs) and we take into account a lot of differences between the two types when we are breeding, socialising and training them which tend to hold true as a general rule, certainly for the dogs we deal with anyway. I think people are often attracted by the way working Cockers look and the shorter hair, but I'm not going to get on my soapbox about that and the rise in indifferent (and by that I mean generally poor) quality pet breeding just now (shame ).

I would say though I don't think it's necessarily true to consider the current day show type to be the 'traditional' Cocker (and I don't think it's true for current day workers either) - the breed was originally developed as a working dog though and it's interesting to look at old photos; it's probably more that show types became massively more popular and what people became used to when they thought of a 'Cocker Spaniel'.

[LurcherGirl]

Unfortunately the number of working cockers has also gone up in rescue...    Working cockers are fabulous dogs in the right home where they get the physical and mental stimulation, but in your bog standard average pet home they often don't do well and end up with behaviour issues and in rescue...

My little one is a cross between working and show (I think - she is a rehome, so I know nothing about her breeding) and is actually both in looks and temperament smack bang in the middle of the two and I really like that.   I do however do obedience and agility with her, so she gets the mental stimulation she needs to keep sane.  

[redlottie]

I have 2 working cockers as pets but actively try and give them time and opportunity to do what they are bred for, with lots of outdoor activity and gundog training.  Which they both love and if I'm honest is where they are truly at their happiest.  It is wonderful to see them doing what they are bred for.  I think working cockers can make great pets but in my opinion it is essential that you work hard with them to give them some taste and experience of being a 'gundog' to allow them to get the most out of life.  

[SophieBlueRoanLover]

What I don't understand is why they haven't been split into two distinct breeds within the Kennel Club, since the working cockers don't fit the current cocker spaniel breed standard. I don't see why working cockers cannot be a different breed (like field spaniels, which look more like show cockers to me, yet they're separated). When I was recently looking for my puppy it would have made my life a lot easier if they'd been separated and people could either advertise "show cockers" or "working cockers" rather than endless emails back and forth then finding out that they were working types. The first litter I saw the woman hadn't even told me that the puppies were 1/4 working - I wanted show type as I want the less frenetic of the two (have also had show ones before and love their laid back temperaments and looks). If I hadn't recognised the mother's working features and hadn't also recognised the FTCH as working in the lines I might have ended up with a mixed cocker, which is not what I wanted and wouldn't suit me as a dog owner, as I wouldn't be able to give it quite the amount of stimulation that it would need (I'm not interested in agility, for example).

Since they look different, have different temperaments & personalities, as well as different roles in their lives, I just don't understand it! Anyone else agree?! (and I love working cockers too, in case anyone thinks this is just because I have a preference for show types!).

[rubytuesday007]

I have a working cocker as a pet, but i did a lot of investigating before i got her to be sure what i was taking on, as much as she physically has masses of energy i find that the mental stimulation is just as important.. we do obedience and gun dog training.. but also play lots of games on walks so that its not just a straight walk even some meal times we turn into a game just so she has to use her brain. I think if anyone is deciding what strain to have they should have a really good think as too what they can offer the dog not just what the dog can offer them.. speak to people who have them..

[Nicola]

When I was recently looking for my puppy it would have made my life a lot easier if they'd been separated and people could either advertise "show cockers" or "working cockers" rather than endless emails back and forth then finding out that they were working types. The first litter I saw the woman hadn't even told me that the puppies were 1/4 working - I wanted show type as I want the less frenetic of the two (have also had show ones before and love their laid back temperaments and looks). If I hadn't recognised the mother's working features and hadn't also recognised the FTCH as working in the lines I might have ended up with a mixed cocker, which is not what I wanted and wouldn't suit me as a dog owner, as I wouldn't be able to give it quite the amount of stimulation that it would need (I'm not interested in agility, for example).

That's more a matter of finding a good breeder though - any good Cocker breeder will make it very clear which strain they are breeding and will want their pups to go to appropriate homes. I personally don't agree with working Cockers being bred purely for pet homes at all, but in any case with a good breeder who is breeding for the right reasons (i.e. not just because it's their "lovely pet" and they can) there wouldn't be any confusion. No responsible breeder who is in it for the good of the breed would wait until after there's been a stream of emails to tell you which strain they have, it's going to be clear from the get-go; and they will know their dog(s) lines inside out and certainly aren't going to be indiscriminately mixing the two strains.

There are many breeds that are split into show and working types and I don't think it's necessary for them to all become different breeds; if all breeders were responsible and buyers did sufficient research and insisted on buying from responsible breeders then there wouldn't really be an issue. Obviously we're not in a perfect world but it's not quite as simple as just making working Cockers (or Springers, Labs, Golden Retrievers, Setters etc.) a separate breed, that would entail its own problems.

[elaine.e]

I have 2 show types now and my 2 previous Cockers were show types too, so I can't comment on workers.

I did showing and basic competitive obedience with one of my first two and fun agility with the other, including being in my agility club's display team.

I did competitive agility with William, now 8, until he hurt his back. We had lots of clear round rosettes and a few places and wins. We're now part of the display team with the training club I go to, doing team routines to music at local shows. I did some showing with Louis, now 3, but haven't tried anything else with him yet.

They've all enjoyed lots of walking in the New Forest every day and cope equally well with long or short walks and they're very versatile, willing to have a go at everything I've asked of them when we're out and about and then turning into cuddle monsters at home

[Jonnydog]

When I was a child back in the 50s, one of my granddad's gundogs was a cocker. He looked just like a blue roan showtype as I remember. I found an old photo which confirms this, although he was definitely on the large side. Also, his springers looked more like the show type springer, with longer, more pendulous ears and abundant feathering.

When I got my first cocker, I wasn't aware of the two strains and we ended up with a wee worker. She had a very strong instinct to work, but was a great pet as well. We enjoy long walks and she was the perfect friend for Jonny the springer. As she got older, she still had that drive to work, and took it upon herself to be stick-carrier in chief for Jonny! the dynamic between them was fascinating.

Now I have a little show type and she's full of energy and drive when she's out and about, but laid back in the house.  

[Max X 2]

There is a huge amount of working cockers in the agility world

(I've been hunting high & low for a rescue young working cocker girl & not come across many)

[Sula]

I am getting a show cocker next week - and I did a lot of homework looking into other breeds - then cockers - before deciding on a show cocker. I knew that with the lifestyle we have - and my back acting up, so I could not guarantee to do agility classes - so went for the show type as it would require less mental and slightly less physical exercise. My OH is brilliant though and Ruben (our cross) has an hour/half - to 2 hour walk with him per day, as well as a 30 minute walk with one of my sons. I always try to get a 30 minute walk in the evening, but recently my back was acting up and I could hardly walk the length of myself...

Given this, a worker was out of the question as no one else is wanting to do agility classes with either Ruben or the pup. I think anyone wanting to get a puppy needs to do this kind of homework and it was lucky that you were able to recognise the worker part of the mum - the breeder should have told you.

[dipsydoodlenoodle]

What I don't understand is why they haven't been split into two distinct breeds within the Kennel Club, since the working cockers don't fit the current cocker spaniel breed standard.

I totally agree. They are in my opinion, totally different.

[Helen]

Just a question to those on this thread that associate working cockers  with agility - why not use a working cocker for the purpose it was created ie as a working gundog?

[rubytuesday007]

Ruby does gundog training as a hobby for me, and a use of her natural instinct.. When she was a little pup I was apprehensive about this style of training as it was a new area for me! Although now we've started and it's still early days I find it quite addictive. And with the next pup I'll definatly be starting early