working cockers/show cockers

[bondie]

Thanks all - I've really enjoyed reading all your comments about the two "types" of cockers, but I have to admit to finding the situation a bit concerning from the 'workers' point of view - as some folks have said, not everyone knows there ARE two types, let alone the different characteristics! Even Kate & William have said that little Lupo is being a bit difficult as he has so much energy! I know responsible (potential) owners will do their research, but a lot of ignorance is out there. For the sake of some of these little dogs going to inappropriate homes and ending up in rescue could some information campaign be made by the Cocker Spaniel Club or the Kennel Club?  Incidentally, my 'show type' is very sturdy, could swim for Britain, HAS to carry something in his mouth, is rock solid with loud noises (never worries about fireworks!) and will walk for miles on long hikes, but is quite content to snuggle up and not demand a walk if one isn't available...... who could ask for anything better?

[Jonnydog]

Most of the cockers around this part of the world (Argyll) seem to be workers. The ones I've met seem to be well suited to life here and enjoy long walks and opportunities to work on the estates. I also know one lovely boy who goes to work with his owner in a garage and seems very content. I think the countryside is more suited to workers. After I lost Jess (worker) i decided to go for a show type and had quite a job finding one. I find myself quite glad that she has a light coat for a show type because she collects all sorts of twiggery etc in her feathers! Incidentally, at the moment she is no less energetic than a worker when she's out walking, but in the house she's happy to snuggle 

[Jane S]

For the sake of some of these little dogs going to inappropriate homes and ending up in rescue could some information campaign be made by the Cocker Spaniel Club or the Kennel Club? 

Trouble is information campaigns will never reach the people who won't/don't do any research - there have been endless campaigns by major organisations warning people not to buy puppies from pet shops or where they can't see the mother and still puppies continue to be bought from pet shops and dealers.

[karendorman13]

A woman i know seen i was getting a cocker spaniel and told me tonight she cant wait to get her cocker spaniel puppy in a few weeks. When i asked her which strain she was getting she did not know and did not even know there were two strains of cocker spaniel. I then asked her if the parents were health checked and she does not think so. I just think this is the prime example of someone who knows nothing about the breed except they are cute. People like that are the reason why dog homes are fit to burst and it makes me angry 

[Helen]

Just a question to those on this thread that associate working cockers  with agility - why not use a working cocker for the purpose it was created ie as a working gundog?

Isn't it called evolution? Border Collies are herding dogs and were not originally meant for agility, Working cocker's make fantastic gundogs but can also make a fantastic competitive partner on the agility field, but they have proven they can be wonderful dogs that can be accomplished in alot of NON working fields if trained and handled correctly, Do hearing dogs for the deaf not breed them for a non gundog specific job? The prison and police service now have breeding programs for sniffer dogs while similar work it's still not out in the fields working in the traditional sense. While agility is a hobby for most people that compete there is also alot of very serious training and handling techniques involved that can take years to to master for handler and dogs alike. My suggestion would be to anyone who is curious to know what agility is all about I would say go to a Champ Show and watch some of the top cocker handlersaswell as top handlers from who have other breeds running their dogs you might be impressed. I have done both working and agility and for me watching the handling skills of the top agility handlers is something special.  

evolution is a natural process John.

n. 1. A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.

I highly doubt whether the human hand in this 'evolution' is actually helping the breed.

I would hazard a guess that this 'helping hand' in evolution includes a little bit of breeding in other breeds and I would not be surprised if one day when dna tests are accurate you find whippet and collie and many other dog breeds in some lines.....

[SophieBlueRoanLover]

A woman i know seen i was getting a cocker spaniel and told me tonight she cant wait to get her cocker spaniel puppy in a few weeks. When i asked her which strain she was getting she did not know and did not even know there were two strains of cocker spaniel. I then asked her if the parents were health checked and she does not think so. I just think this is the prime example of someone who knows nothing about the breed except they are cute. People like that are the reason why dog homes are fit to burst and it makes me angry 

Well maybe she'll now worry a bit about this and ask the breeder a few questions or have a little google about it. Let's hope she's at least seen the dam and will have an idea of what it's temperament and looks are like. Now I know why there are so many cockers aged around 6 months always available on sites like preloved.

Having said all this, though, when my parents and I looked for our first two cockers (in 1982 and 1994) we didn't know anything about working cockers and also had no idea about health checks. I guess with the advent of the internet in the meantime it's much easier to do some research about these things, but as you say, many people are unaware of them. We also made the dreadful mistake of buying our second puppy from a litter of 8 where they weren't with their mother - who knows where they'd come from. I guess the woman reassured us enough (and we were grieving the loss of Henry I), but very stupid of us. Fortunately he turned out to be a lovely long-living dog, but he did suffer from awful lumps and bumps, and perhaps that's why they didn't want to show the mother (or perhaps he was from a puppy farm - I don't think so, as we did at least check the pedigree and it looked okay).

This time - getting my own pup - I've done a lot more research and have gone to a reputable breeder and made sure I checked the pedigrees and health checks, etc. (and saw a few generations of the dog too).

[karendorman13]

I saw on this womans facebook someone recommending that puppy place in Manchester . It took us 6 months of research before deciding a show type cocker is more suited to our lifestyle now, and another 4 months to find a breeder. Our breeder is fabulous and it was not a case of we wanted a puppy so she handed one over to us, she had to see if we were right for her puppies and she has met all of my children and knows they both have respect for dogs. She is very supportive and as she puts it any trouble or any questions we have now and in the future she will try to answer then and if not will steer us in the right direction. I have signed a contract and she has stipulated that if we can no longer care for the dog she will take him back no questions asked. My last dog who is almost 8 was a bought on a whime as we had to have or Border Collie put to sleep but we adopted Bo from the DT so at least we had some type of screening. I hope this woman proves me wrong but 18 months ago she had a Shitzu who her Mum now has

[JohnW]

.

I would hazard a guess that this 'helping hand' in evolution includes a little bit of breeding in other breeds and I would not be surprised if one day when dna tests are accurate you find whippet and collie and many other dog breeds in some lines.....

It would be highly unlikely you would find that in working cocker lines from an agility or flyball perspective this sort of breding practice would occur, Whippets in general do not thrive in this sport and Collie owners tend to stick with collies, you have to understand that working cocker owners who do agility are actually very proud of the breed they already have Helen. And in fact most competitors do not stray far from trailing and working lines when buying a working cocker for agility, in fact there is a significant number who rescue these dogs from unsuitable homes and the dogs have a fantastic life travelling around the country competing. I would not worry too much about the purity of lines Helen and while they may be doing a sport rather than work I can assure you working cockers who compete in these sports pose no threat to the breed. But you asked about why they not be used purley for working instead and I answered your question with my own opinion.

[Emilyoliver]

Just a question to those on this thread that associate working cockers  with agility - why not use a working cocker for the purpose it was created ie as a working gundog?

Isn't it called evolution? Border Collies are herding dogs and were not originally meant for agility, Working cocker's make fantastic gundogs but can also make a fantastic competitive partner on the agility field, but they have proven they can be wonderful dogs that can be accomplished in alot of NON working fields if trained and handled correctly, Do hearing dogs for the deaf not breed them for a non gundog specific job? The prison and police service now have breeding programs for sniffer dogs while similar work it's still not out in the fields working in the traditional sense. While agility is a hobby for most people that compete there is also alot of very serious training and handling techniques involved that can take years to to master for handler and dogs alike. My suggestion would be to anyone who is curious to know what agility is all about I would say go to a Champ Show and watch some of the top cocker handlersaswell as top handlers from who have other breeds running their dogs you might be impressed. I have done both working and agility and for me watching the handling skills of the top agility handlers is something special.  

evolution is a natural process John.

n. 1. A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.

I highly doubt whether the human hand in this 'evolution' is actually helping the breed.

I would hazard a guess that this 'helping hand' in evolution includes a little bit of breeding in other breeds and I would not be surprised if one day when dna tests are accurate you find whippet and collie and many other dog breeds in some lines.....

Personally, I think it is testament to this lovely adaptable, biddable, capable breed that they excel at not only their original 'job', but so many others.  Yes, at some stage extra breeds may be 'added', but don't think it is an automatic development that dogs for agility need other breeds included to be better.  Most collies competing are just that - collies.  Besides, adding such breeds as whippets/ collies would possibly result in the offspring being too large for Medium classes and this would create its own issues.  Purpose-bred crosses are being bred for agility, but they are usually described as that (rather than 'hiding' their parentage and pretending they are pedigrees).  (Anyway, many worked/ trialled working cockers are said to have springer blood added, so this 'human helping hand' appears to be evidence in whatever sphere the dogs are worked).

[Emilyoliver]

.

I would hazard a guess that this 'helping hand' in evolution includes a little bit of breeding in other breeds and I would not be surprised if one day when dna tests are accurate you find whippet and collie and many other dog breeds in some lines.....

It would be highly unlikely you would find that in working cocker lines from an agility or flyball perspective this sort of breding practice would occur, Whippets in general do not thrive in this sport and Collie owners tend to stick with collies, you have to understand that working cocker owners who do agility are actually very proud of the breed they already have Helen. And in fact most competitors do not stray far from trailing and working lines when buying a working cocker for agility, in fact there is a significant number who rescue these dogs from unsuitable homes and the dogs have a fantastic life travelling around the country competing. I would not worry too much about the purity of lines Helen and while they may be doing a sport rather than work I can assure you working cockers who compete in these sports pose no threat to the breed. But you asked about why they not be used purley for working instead and I answered your question with my own opinion.

Agree wholeheartedly with this.

[Helen]

.

I would hazard a guess that this 'helping hand' in evolution includes a little bit of breeding in other breeds and I would not be surprised if one day when dna tests are accurate you find whippet and collie and many other dog breeds in some lines.....

It would be highly unlikely you would find that in working cocker lines from an agility or flyball perspective this sort of breding practice would occur, Whippets in general do not thrive in this sport and Collie owners tend to stick with collies, you have to understand that working cocker owners who do agility are actually very proud of the breed they already have Helen. And in fact most competitors do not stray far from trailing and working lines when buying a working cocker for agility, in fact there is a significant number who rescue these dogs from unsuitable homes and the dogs have a fantastic life travelling around the country competing. I would not worry too much about the purity of lines Helen and while they may be doing a sport rather than work I can assure you working cockers who compete in these sports pose no threat to the breed. But you asked about why they not be used purley for working instead and I answered your question with my own opinion.

Agree wholeheartedly with this.

I'm glad the majority are like this but there are dogs out there that are passed off as full working cockers but are not, despite what the pedigree's say -  I really really don't think it's all as clear cut as you say    After all sprockers are still out there with full working cocker pedigrees.  You can recite a pedigree verbatim but unless the Kennel Club is there at the mating how can you 100% guarantee a pedigree?

As with any competitive arena there will be some 'evolution' involved with agility cockers (and trialling and working cockers) that isn't entirely kosher.