Walking off the lead

[Willowr]

Hi all

I have a 1 year old cocker spaniel (working stock)  and I'm really struggling with her off the lead. We have been working on it for months now and tried food, toys, balls, whistles and noting is working..

The past few walks she has walked fine but when she catches sight of a bird that's it, she is off and nothing will catch her attention until she wants to come back. It's to the point now I don't want to let her off because she would easily run into a road without a second thought.

Can anyone offer any support or guidance? We love our cocker and she really needs to be let off for exercise but I worry for her welfare.

Cheers
Dave

[Des]

Hi we have a working type cocker "Bonnie" she is 21 months old now.From the first time she was allowd out after her jabs we have always allowed her off lead.We have always hide from bonnie on our walks if she ventured too far infront we would hide, this taught her to watch us and follow us not the other way round.

[dieselboy]

We have a 1year old working type who cannot be let off lead at all. He just bolts every time. He doesn't go to far but impossible to get back. We are still working on that but have a feeling it may just be him and his nature but will keep trying. Our 14 week old pup will walk off lead all the time. His recall is great for the moment but still working on that. They are 2 very different dogs and from the same family. Until I know the older one will come back he will never be off lead but better that than a very expensive vet bill if something were to happen. We walk him on a training line when it is safe, we have found it gives him a little more freedom to do what he wants but we still have him so he can't run. Still hope one day tho.

[kate2]

I have the same issue with my two 3 year olds, one is better than the other but follows the other one! they will come back all the time, unless there is something to chase - which you cant predict

I am reading "Total Recall" by Pippa Mattinson, and also on week 1 of Top Barks whistle recall at the top of this forum, will let you know if anything works!

[emderpenguin]

There's a new facebook group that might be of help while you are training your recall - its a page that is trying to list all the secure places you can take dogs across the country. there might be one near you listed already or you can put a post on asking for help to find one in your area:

Dog Walking Fields - securely fenced, private, off lead dog walking areas

[Alfies Dad]

Buy a 25+ metre long length of thin rope (ebay) and a harness the dog gets some freedom and exercise but you remain in control until you can improve recall. If they cant run off a bit of steam your chances of them focussing on you are slim because everything else is more interesting. The long rope takes a bit of getting used to and isn't much fun on cold wet days but its a great stepping stone.

Very tasty treats and lots of them when he does come back and don't feed the dog before you go out so the treats are even higher value. Beware of hiding too well I tried this and Alf bolted off in the opposite direction when he panicked because he thought  he had lost me. Thankfully he didn't come to any harm and was more attentive for a while afterwards.

Try running off screaming like a loony waving your arms in the air it usually gets their attention and anyone else's in the vicinity

Good luck

[Emilyoliver]

Take her to a gundog trainer. She needs to learn self control and you need to learn how to channel and control her instincts to hunt and chase. Also the training will help with other outlets for her energy like retrieving and hunting under control. In the meantime, use a long line as suggested and work on recall.

[Helen]

If you had a working cocker that didn't want to scent birds that would be a worry - it's what they are bred to do    It's not insurmountable but you need to consistent and the younger you start them the better. You need to go back to basics with a long lead and a whistle and teach her a solid stop, and a reliable recall.  Don't let your dog go further than 30 or so feet without recalling them - if you let them go any further then you lose the control of them and they won't come back which is the mistake a lot of people make with training. When they are very young they will come back from a distance but once their confidence grow and their instincts kick in the scent is more rewarding than coming back to you is.  Reward and praise when they re-call well but don't punish if they don't - why would you come back if someone is telling you off?    Also at this time of year gamekeepers are very protective of their birds so don't let any dog with unreliable recall off near woods or fields with pheasants in them!

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but for any working puppy owner reading this the method is much simpler.  Never ever let them chase as a small pup and keep them within 30 feet of you.  It pays dividends.

If you have a gundog trainer near you that trains with positive methods it's worth investing in some lessons    You've already said that she prefers birds to treats so the best way in my view to play this is to worth with her and her hunting instincts.  It doesn't mean you have to go on a shoot every week but if you can direct and control her hunting and flushing then she is happy and you are too.  The biggest ever reward for my dog is flushing a pheasant - the joy of that for me is that he can flush and stop/sit dead or I can whistle and he comes back to me.  He has a ball and he's not in danger and that for me is a perfect walk

[PennyB]

I also find that it can also be an age thing you're battling as well - Wilf (show-type), Stella (sprocker) & now Bosley (sprocker) have all pushed the boundaries between 1 and 2 years old and were becoming less dependent on me and listening less - just like their teenage counterparts. Bosley will range off further but he will come back (may be not straight away but not far off - I do use a whistle though which helps big time - but my biggest challenge is getting him back on the lead at the moment - again we'll work it out (and increase the bond for him to listen to me more) and he'll settle just like Wilf (he would hide under 4x4s so I couldn't reach him when it came time to go home) and Stella (would go off chasing squirrels when it came time to go back onlead in her teen phase now she sits for a treat just as the others do, except Bosley of course) did, well hopefully LOL.

[kate2]

Just to post a few things we learnt from our fun gundog training session this weekend the lady was very good, using positive methods, the things we have to work on are:

Keep them constantly occupied and be interesting, take things out on a walk to drop/hide/throw (we have a furry pencil case with treats in  ), get them motivated in toys to play with, so that their attention is on you (still working on that!) 

Change direction a lot so they are having to track you not vice versa, walking in a slow straight line is too predictable

Reward like a mad thing with high value when they come back when called.

Teach the "leave it" command and use that when they try and chase

Use a long line trailing on the floor, try and stand on it if they set off and you can step on it

Also when they do bolt off and ignore your calling them then turn your back and huff off in the other direction as fast as you can, go through a gateway of you can/it's safe and exclude them from "the pack" (if you have another dog with you make a big fuss of that one)

^^ I'm still working on the above, but have been brave enough to let her off a few times, I'm just hoping we can eventually stop her chasing in the first place 

[sodpot2000]

Glad to see that others are dealing with similar issues. It is really good to see how others are working these things out. I guess 14 months was not a good age to start teaching a dog with no recall  To his credit Buster got the idea of coming to the whistle after about a hour's work - if he is round home. Farther afield I am doing the same as the rest of you. A tennis ball seems to get his attention - after about the 5 mile mark - and only until he decided that a great mouthful of sheep dung was better  Game of England v Wales rugby follows with Buster convinced he is Llanelli's star winger!

That being said we are both having lots of fun and I guess that is what matters most.

I was very pleased this weekend that he has learned to go over stiles. Most dogs get the first half (going up) without difficulty but then just throw themselves off the top regardless of height. This weekend he remembered to turn at the top and come down the steps. Small thing, but I was pleased as punch!

[mcinnd]

I'm probably going to get an earful on this but your dog needs to know that your the boss (pack leader) and that the dog should obey your commands.
You need to be firm, on some occasions very firm with your commands and not soft or the dog will not think it's any more than just a game.
You also need to be rewarding with kindness and the occasional treat when they do as they are told, not a treat every time or they'll come to expect it but don't be frightened to scold the dog, loud words are always enough nothing more when they disobey.

I can't say that I've had a 100% success rate using this method with dogs or children but pretty close down the nearly 50+ years I've had the pleasure of having dogs as companions and over 30+ with children.
 
David

[lozzyf]

There's a new facebook group that might be of help while you are training your recall - its a page that is trying to list all the secure places you can take dogs across the country. there might be one near you listed already or you can put a post on asking for help to find one in your area:

Dog Walking Fields - securely fenced, private, off lead dog walking areas

How do you access this page?

[7733lily]

There's a new facebook group that might be of help while you are training your recall - its a page that is trying to list all the secure places you can take dogs across the country. there might be one near you listed already or you can put a post on asking for help to find one in your area:

Dog Walking Fields - securely fenced, private, off lead dog walking areas

How do you access this page?

This is the link to the FB Page.  Not sure if its a closed group that you have to join (as I'm already on it)
https://www.facebook.com/dogwalkingfields?ref=ts&fref=ts

[JeffD]

All of my dogs have been workers and most have chased birds as pups and I also would worry if the didn't,

I have always been lucky and lived near a beach when I have been training gundogs so I would let them chase seagulls as pups until they learnt they could not catch them it can take a few days but once they are tired they tend to give up and you can praise them when they stop the chase and add in the stop or recall whistle, they would still flush them but not chase once the birds were airborne. Have not tried this with older dogs but may be worth a try if all else fails.