Author Topic: I think my dog is confused!  (Read 2808 times)

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Offline Digger

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I think my dog is confused!
« on: October 18, 2018, 08:51:13 AM »
Anyone ever felt like you've inadvertently trained your dog to do the wrong thing?!
So, mine is now 15 months and still pulls like a flipping train on the lead. I mean I am  strong and she pulls me off balance sometimes.
I have deviated from my method a couple of times, just briefly, just to try something that someone reckoned was a dead cert (haha) but have otherwise been absolutely consistent with my training. If you can call it that!:
 When the lead goes tight, I stop. My dog, who knows what 'close' means, comes in next to my leg and off we go again...For about 4 steps!! Sometimes when the lead goes tight, she even walks backwards into position and off we go again..for about 4 steps.
Repeat and try not to scream.
I have been doing this since she was 9 WEEKS OLD. She doesn't seem to understand that she is meant to STAY in that position while we are moving.
Once we are out on the lead she's not really Interested in treats any more. I did and still do give her something every time she appears at my side, just to remind her that's a good place but when she's on lead she just wants to forge off..I would like to say forwards- that would  be heaven, but oh no,she will yank sideways and backwards sometimes too. She has jerked so violently in a sudden direction before that all 4 of her feet ended up off the floor when she reached the end of the lead! I have gone back to using a harness because I can't believe she hasn't broken her very strong neck by now!
In some respects she seems quite smart, but there are a few things ( like this) where she just doesn't seem to understand! She seems to struggle to generalise things. (We also have it with 'leave it'- Shell leave a biscuit under her nose, a ball I've thrown into the woods, but not something she's picked up that she shouldn't have. You still can't put anything down in my house.) I'm honestly starting to wonder if there is something slightly wrong. This is certainly not the 'biddable, easy to train, do anything to please' dog that I read about when I did hours of wide research into this breed. I seem to be able to train everyone else's dog I know but mine is the most difficult to train dog I have ever met!
Any ideas on this would be very gratefully received. Maybe I am doing something glaringly obvious that I haven't realised!

I would like to get her seen by someone who knows the breed but they seem to be rare and I nearly booked to see a local gun dog trainer recently but then heard awful things about him so didn't. If anyone knows someone who's good with working cockers in my area I'd be really interested. We're on the Suffolk/Essex border.

Thanks in advance for any ideas. :D

Offline lescef

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Re: I think my dog is confused!
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2018, 09:43:56 AM »
Yep, I understand exactly how you feel. I have the same with Maddie, who is nearly 8!
Firstly, dogs can't generalise so everything has to be taught in that situation.
Maddie's desire to sniff and scavenge far outweighs any training she has had. Her lead walking is better at times and your dog is still very young. Keep persevering!
Lesley, Maddie and Bramble

Offline bmthmark

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Re: I think my dog is confused!
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2018, 10:09:15 AM »
Firstly you are 100% not alone and you are not doing anything wrong.

Everything you said is true for me as well  >:D  . However I have noticed a massive change in the last 6 months.
My boy (Jett) is now 2 years old, he does seem to listen better and overall is improving. However I do think they are a lot cleverer than we think.
For example normally before I get him ready to go for a walk I tell him to get his collar. He runs off and finds it. Normally he picks it up and brings it to me. Nope not yesterday, he drops it  >:D . So I tell him to pick it up, so he picks it up and drops it instantly  >:D :lol:. So I said to him, fine we won't go for a walk. Within seconds he is at my feet with the collar in his mouth :005:

I'm starting to think that maybe it just takes longer for their brain to process the command. I've noticed with Jett he doesn't always do what I say straight away, there could be a delay. This maybe that he is being a pain in the backside
So when I walk with him and he pulls, I tell him to walk nicely but within seconds he is pulling again. It is very frustrating but if I stop and slow everything down, he does get slightly better.
I was hoping as he gets older he will get better but lescef just ruined that theory  :lol2:

I do take him to gundog training, he absolutely loves it and is doing very well. I do this mainly for obedience training and it gets him socialising with other spaniels (he adores them).

Just think you could of got a dog that would do everything perfectly, but your life would be so boring. Now you have a crazy cocker  :D

Offline Gazrob

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Re: I think my dog is confused!
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2018, 10:12:44 AM »
Try keeping your dog on a very short lead when you want the dog walking next to you until the dog had stopped pulling then make it a bit looser.  I did what you do I stopped when the lead went tight and took a step back. I have the lead fairly loose it's not to short and not too long he's got enough room to walk by my side but not enough that he can do his own thing.  Now if he strays out in front I stop walking and he takes a few steps back automatically. He had learned the heel within a year it's not perfect but he now walks by my side on and off lead.

Offline Barry H

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Re: I think my dog is confused!
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2018, 10:43:58 AM »
With respect to Gazrob, I'd have a go at doing the opposite - a long(er) line (not an extendable lead).  I found the extra bit of freedom worked wonders with Jack, especially in the beginning when the attractions of the next smell is greater than fresh roast chicken...

Training is exactly the same as on a short lead, but it reduces the relentless arm-pulling, gives the dog a bit more freedom and therefore has the advantage of being less stressful for both man and dog.  Chances are that an extra couple of feet of lead will make all the difference.  You can always reel it in and reel it out when necessary. 

Forget about keeping her close in the beginning.  You can work up to that.  Slowly, slowly, catchee monkey.  The first step is to eliminate the amount of pulling which will be a darned site less if you give her a bit more leeway to start with.  If the next interesting thing is only a couple of feet further on, you've saved one arm-pull. 

Offline Digger

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Re: I think my dog is confused!
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2018, 12:22:40 PM »
Many thanks to all of you. Bmthmark,I actually laughed out loud. Alone. In my kitchen! :lol2:
Well at least I can gain comfort in the knowledge that at least I am not alone!
 I have tried:  long lead (=you get a really powerful yank when she reaches the end); middle length lead (=more of a steady squeezy hard pull); short lead (=dog is half suspended in the air in a parrallelagram shape and I am stepping on her foot).
I just can't pick a clear winner.  :005:
I have recently borrowed a rope harness from my neighbour which does work to a degree but I had rather imagined that I would be able to train a small, floppy spaniel to walk vaguely next to me without causing me pain or having to rely on gadgets.
My little thing is like a bulldozer. If you shut your eyes you would think there was a massive pitbull on the other end!
I will keep trying, and be sure to post if anyone has a Eureka moment!!

Offline Barry H

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Re: I think my dog is confused!
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2018, 01:30:57 PM »
Digger, you have my sympathies.  Only thing left for ideas is You Tube (which I'm sure you've done) or one of these:

Of course, you'll need to grow a 'tache to get the full benefit...


Offline Digger

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Re: I think my dog is confused!
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2018, 02:37:14 PM »
HahahahAhaaa!!!
Hey- that's an old picture!- my tan is much more believable now.
..and the less said about the tash the better..
 :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: I think my dog is confused!
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2018, 02:48:31 PM »
I?m personally not convinced that we?ll ever be at thenpoint where Humphrey NEVER pulls! We?ve done the subordination exam ( we failed but not because of that) and he?s quite capable of walking to heel, with or without lead. He is however, as they all are, ruled by his nose and following a scent is what spaniels do best, it takes an awful lot of self discipline for them to ignore something particularly interesting and if you watch any sniffer dog working, they?re not generally ambling along!!  ;) :lol2:
I agree with Barry, I?ve also found a slightly longer lead easier, I?ve also found Humphrey pulls more and harder on a harness than a collar, although for longer periods on the lead a harness is probably better.
At the end of the day, it all comes down to practice practice practice and consistancy, I?ve always taken the easier cop out and let Humphrey walk off lead as much as possible which has saved my arms but delayed the training!!
Have you trained the ?look? command? If you can practise getting him to hold your gaze for a while and then reward (clicker?s a good aid here) and then encourage him to keep looking up while you?re walking (click and/or treat every time he looks up) that might help aswell. Keep trying to get his attention and reward when you have it.
I think most in here will agree it IS normal and if we?re honest, we?ve nearly all been there (and are still there to some extent!) but having tried all the various harnesses and quirky leads and and and, I?ve concluded nothing really replaces consistant training and I?m optimistic that by the time I?m 75, Humphrey will be nearly 12, we might  just have cracked it!!  :lol:

Offline Gazrob

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Re: I think my dog is confused!
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2018, 03:59:48 PM »
I'm not saying choke the dog obviously have it fairly loose but not enough to go too far. Everyone has different methods. I use a 6ft leather lead and I keep him on my left side at all times I walk in inside and outside circles and change the speed of the walks. Take about 5 minutes or more everytime you go out for a walk to practice this and eventually you might get somewhere.

Offline its.sme

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Re: I think my dog is confused!
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2018, 04:14:43 PM »
I think sometimes we inadvertently teach.

When Bea was a pup I was so worried about lung worm that I would pick up all the snails and slugs from the garden to keep her safe...Bea learnt to pick up snails :lol2:

The word Coffee said on the walk = Bea running to the Cafe instantly  :luv:

Digger, is it possible that you dog thinks that this is what is expected of her on the lead ?

Offline BonnieScot

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Re: I think my dog is confused!
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2018, 06:53:28 PM »
This made me smile!

Bon and I have had all these adventures- short leads, long leads, stopping and starting, sometimes getting better, other times a lunge that almost takes your shoulder out (she's 18KG and determined), buckets of treats, 300 peck, you name it we've tried it. I've come to think that just 'loose' leash has been tainted for us- I've been so inconsistent over the years that she has no real idea of what I want despite me thinking it's really clear. I once spent months counting that she would take about 8 steps, get to the end of the leash, ping round and come to my side like an angel, then ping on 8 steps and on and on and on. It's incredibly wearying.

This summer we've had some improvement using Sophia Yin's method, and I think the key there is that she's precise about WHERE the dog is and therefore the cue (for the human) to stop is clear. Bon is definitely being reinforced by the environment and I think it's probably key to control in a sensible way. But I've lots to learn- I spent ages letting her roam around at the end of a 5m line letting her have sniffing on free vend on the basis that I was providing enrichment. Made my own bed....

There should be a support group especially for this.

Offline Top Barks

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Re: I think my dog is confused!
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2018, 02:26:02 PM »
Hopefully you are sorted now Bonnie Scot . Would love it if you would keep me up-to-date by pm on here. I would LOVE to hear about your progress.

Mark Sanderson BSc Hons (canine behaviour), FdSc CBT, CAP 1, CAP 2
Member of The Association Of Pet Dog Trainers (00977)
 
Check out my website http://www.topbarks.co.uk/  www.yorkdogtrainer.co.uk

Offline Emilyoliver

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Re: I think my dog is confused!
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2018, 02:39:51 PM »
I would like to get her seen by someone who knows the breed but they seem to be rare and I nearly booked to see a local gun dog trainer recently but then heard awful things about him so didn't. If anyone knows someone who's good with working cockers in my area I'd be really interested. We're on the Suffolk/Essex border.

Hi Digger, did you get some help/ find a trainer?  If not, I can recommend a guy in your area who knows working spaniels well.
Michelle, Emily and Ollie

Offline fionad

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Re: I think my dog is confused!
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2018, 03:51:28 PM »
I had a collie that pulled like a train. I used a Halti collar in the end. My back and hips couldn't take the strain. She walked perfectly with that on.