CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Health => Topic started by: GeoW on September 24, 2013, 06:18:42 PM
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William is now 18 months of age and one still stubbornly has refused to drop.
It has been a worry over several months now the thought of putting William thro' the operation with its attendant risks, all to be balanced against the increased risk of cancer some years down the road.
Today we had a meeting with our wonderful Vet who went thro' the procedure with us and listened patiently whilst I questioned him about the pros and cons and the various indications from research papers. He was happy to only remove the retained one, and his bottom line was that if it was his dog he would have it done, and he cares as much for his clients dogs as his own (he calls them his babies)
He posed the question 'Could we live with the alternative of not having it done with the thought always in the back of our minds that something may develop in the future?' I suspect I could not.
I trust this man's professional opinion, so the decision has been made, William will have the operation sometime in the next few months.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-e-Dm5rcYKn0/UjjomI22YQI/AAAAAAAALUc/Qjw8ZmJiwNQ/s150/024%2520avatar200.jpg)
Still sorry he is faced with this, and I know we will be on tenterhooks and fearful until he is safely back home, but at least my indecision has been resolved.
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Yes, I know exactly how you're feeling over this ;).
Chaz was neutered just over a month ago and I ended up driving Dot up the wall with pacing around waiting for the phone call from the vet to say everything had gone well. Unknown to me at the time Dot had arranged with the receptionist to phone as she knew just what I'd be like worrying about him :005: :luv:.
Anyway, everything went fine, we got him back the same afternoon, no problems whatsoever with his recovery although he was drowsy the first day and, although we started him off with an inflatable buster collar, he didn't need it after the second day and his wound has healed perfectly.
Bob.
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Is there any way they can locate the retained testicle before the operation so it doesn't have to be so intrusive?
I know there is a small animal CT Scanner in Chester that is very expensive but may be worth considering? I can understand how worried you must be - I will be for you when its time....
Jayne
x
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Selby had this one about 12 months ago when he was nearly three, it was a big operation as he couldn't find it, he was very groggy for a few days after and we had to be careful that he didn't over do it, we made the decision to just have just the undescended one removed as he is a rather nervous dog and I thought he needed the testosterone. He is fine now, try not to worry, I know you will but I am sure he will be fine :luv:
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I would have came to the same conclusion if I was in your position - a little cavalier belonging to a neighbour of mine died before his second birthday after a retained testicle turned cancerous :'(. It's one of those situations where I'd be more than happy to follow my vet's advice.
It sounds like you have a super vet, and William will be in very safe hands :luv:
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Ozzy has retained both his testicles - one is half descended and the other still in his abdomen somewhere. We are about to book him in to have them both removed, as we couldn't live with ourselves if we didn't and one or both turned cancerous.
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There must be a fair few of us faced with the same decision
When Max had his op he didn't need another incision as they could get to the undescended one through the same route, so all very straight forward
I'd considered just removing the one, but in the end after talking to the vet nurse we went for both
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Sounds like you have made the right decision for William. You would never forgive yourself if anything ever happened to the ticking bomb which had been left just because you didnt want to put him through an operation.
Jaynes suggestion is a good one, if they could locate it before the op then it would only be a couple of snips rather than a more extensive and painful operation. Your vet might have a mobile scanner which they may use for farm animals?? Might be worth asking?
Jinley is booked in for a spay after our holidays in October. I am dreading the day so I know how you are feeling at the moment!
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When we took Alfie to the vet's for his 1yr checkup I was dreading the fact that we were also going to be discussing the problem of his undescended testicle and when the operation would be to remove it. We had decided that there was no reason to remove the other. However we got a lovely surprise when the vet informed us that the testicle had descended so there was no operation to discuss. It still isn't often visible but the vet assures us that it is definitely there! Much as I dreaded putting Alfie through an operation, I would have gone through with it rather than risk it turning cancerous in later years, so can only agree with your decision to let William have the operation.
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Thank you all for your supportive comments they all help to give confidence that we have made the right decision.
I did mention to the Vet about the use of ultra sound/scanner to pre-locate the bally thing but he didn't seem to think it really necessary.
Before we make the final arrangements for William to have the op, I will press him again on the grounds of minimising the procedure, but there's only so far you can go without seeming to question their professional expertise.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-e-Dm5rcYKn0/UjjomI22YQI/AAAAAAAALUc/Qjw8ZmJiwNQ/s150/024%2520avatar200.jpg)
CoL is such a valuable resource for providing advice and reassurance.
Thank you all once again.
M.
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So pleased that you and your vet have come to a decision that suits you all, including the wonderful William (although of course he doesn't realise it yet!)
Good Luck when the procedure happens - and look forward to reading about it all - I have no doubt the mischievous one will find something to keep you on your toes :luv:
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Having had this thing lurking in the back of our minds for several months now we visited our Vet to discuss the subject of Will’s undecended testicle, hoping against hope that something may have moved, but knowing that at 22 months a decision had to be made.
Our hopes were raised when Tom thought he could feel it in his groin, but then wasn’t sure if it was a fatty lump. Undecided, a second opinion by Nigel the other partner was sought, he too couldn’t be sure, but both said were it their dog they would opt for surgery to remove it.
So, Tuesday is the appointed day, Tom will operate with our full confidence but it’s going to be a very worrying time over the next few days, and even more so on Tuesday until we have him back home.
You can't help dark thoughts coming to mind and it seems worse somehow with him going under the knife as a fit and healthy young dog but the head tells us it's the best thing to do even tho' the heart hates the thought of it happening.
M.
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Must be something to do with having an orange roan boy and naming him William, as my William had exactly the same problem :o.
I waited until he was 15 or 16 months old to give him time to mature physically, and in the hope that it appear, but it never did, so the decision was made. It was a good decision too, because the vet said that it would never have descended from wherever it was, and it took a bit of finding.
William had internal and external stitches if I remember rightly (he's almost 10 now, so it was a long time ago) and I had to take him back to the vet twice because there was a bit of swelling. But there was no infection or anything else going on and it probably bothered me more than it did William.
I'm sure it will go well on Tuesday :blink:
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Don't know anything about these things as I have always had girlies :luv: but sending best wishes for Tuesday Maurice ;) x x x
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Will be thinking of you and William on Tuesday, it sounds as though you have got a fantastic vets. Harvey has had the op, and was a bit off for a few days and quite badly bruised, but had no bad side effects since. Sending William lots of :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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Beau had both undescended testicles done, he was fine afterwards but hated the cone (more than 2 weeks of it).
They started looking in the groin area and progressed further and further up his abdomen until they were found (more than 2 hours in theatre). Loads of stitches but at least no infections and all seems good 3 months later. he still hasn't recovered all the hair on his leg where it was shaved for the IV and his tummy is a bit patchy but a small price to pay for peace of mind. Good luck for William.
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Awww, Archie and I will be thinking of you all (especially William). I'm sure everything will be fine and he will be back to his normal lovely self in no time. xx
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Good luck from us. Reading this thread with interest as both of Archie's testicles haven't appeared yet (he's just over 6 months old). I'm not thinking of doing anything until his 1st year booster appointment but it's got me a bit nervous reading that it can be tricky to actually find them. I've tried and can't feel anything but don't want to take him to our vets as I know they'll want to book him in to remove them now :-\ Lesley
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Thank you for your good wishes and reassurance we hope it is found quickly to avoid a prolonged procedure which is an additional worry.
I think you are right to wait lesley, there's no real need for rush, and there is still plenty of time for Archie's to appear. Unless there is a pressing medical reason to act early a dog should be allowed to mature first as early removal can have an adverse affect on their development. Don't let the Vets pressurise you into having it done too early, good ones won't, and ours is quite happy to leave William with the one descended intact.
I am thinking of getting a comfy collar rather than use a cone, but the Vet said he wouldn't need one? but I think I will get it as a backup.
Another day closer and we're slightly more edgy :016:
M.
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Big hugs for William from us. I'm sure everything will go to plan but I know you will be worried. You will all be back to normal soon :luv: :luv:
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Only just seen this Maurice.
I really feel for you. It is so nerve wracking when our dogs have to undergo surgery.
We will be thinking of lovely William, and sending positives vibes his way on Tuesday.
Here's hoping his problem will all be resolved and he will be returned to his happy, healthy state soon.
Big hugs to you all. Xx
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My previous cocker, Jazz, had an undescended testicle and he had the operation when he was around 18 months of age. He recovered amazingly quickly and I knew I had definitely made the right decision. When you mention the christian names of your vets in one of your posts, I have a feeling you must live near to me, as I think I may know who your vet is. I live in Penn.
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Thank you Kerry and Maureen, your support means such a lot to us.
Hi Andy, it's reassuring to hear that Jazz recovered quickly, hope it goes the same for William.
Your feeling is correct, living in Penn you would be bound to know Walpole and Bingham, we are only a few miles from you at Perton, and have been clients of their practice for over twenty-five years.
Regards,
M.
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In our thoughts today..........x
Hope all goes well William, and that you are stretched out in front of that cosy fire at home before you know it.
Xxx
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Just seen this Maurice. Sending you, Jan and William the best of wishes for today. William will be recovered and back to normal before you know it.
Our first cocker, Charlie, had exactly the same op for the same reason and he made a quick, troublefree recovery.
Please let us know how William is doing. xx
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Thanks Maureen and Mel, it's tomorrow at 08.30am he's going in, edgyness level just gone up a notch :016:
M.
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Sending hugs and best wishes for tomorrow. Blue had his (more straightforward) castration last week and I was so worried. The anaesthetic seemed to be the worse part for him.
Hoping it goes very smoothly and he recovers super quick. It's not easy letting them have an op :'(
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Good luck for you all today x hope William is back home safe soon x We will be thinking of you :bigarmhug:
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Any news Maurice?
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The ops tomorrow morning Pat, Will's has got to have an early dinner today, nothing after 5pm. he'll know then there's something up.
M.
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Sending you and William lots of :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:for tomorrow. Will be thinking about you all. I'm sure by this time tomorrow you will have him back home with you.
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The ops tomorrow morning Pat, Will's has got to have an early dinner today, nothing after 5pm. he'll know then there's something up.
M.
Derrr, sorry Maurice, been away at the weekend, under alot of stress keeping Miss J away from chicken!! Good luck for tomorrow x
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Sending every best wish for William tomorrow. I'm sure he will be fine. This time tomorrow he will be back with you by his own fireside.
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Hope William isn't feeling too starved tonight. Lots of gravy bones once he is back to normal :D Will be thinking about you tomorrow and looking for your update when he is back home xxx
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Thinking of you both, and William tomorrow. Hoping all goes well :bigarmhug:
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Hope all goes well - will be checking for an update x
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Will be thinking of you xx
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Good luck for today, he'll be bouncing around before you know it.
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Hope all goes well today and wishing William a speedy recovery :bigarmhug:
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Everything crossed for you all today and gentle hugs for William. x
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Thinking of you both today :bigarmhug:
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Yes indeed... :bigarmhug:
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Thinking of you all :bigarmhug:
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Hope all goes well today and wishing William a speedy recovery :bigarmhug:
Same here :luv:
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Hope everything went well. x
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Hope things have gone well today, and he is home soon :bigarmhug:
Erica
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We're overwhelmed by all your lovely comments of support, Will's is now back home, with Anti-biotics and Metacam, all went well with the op and all the nurses fell in love with him.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-PviJMCVCerk/UvEqBONkUAI/AAAAAAAAMC4/VQnPiOt0kVg/s512/060.JPG)
A little subdued but's that to be expected, will need to check over the next few days that he doesn't show too much interest in the wound.
So relieved.
M.
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Even after all that you look so handsome William. Get well soon. :luv:
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Oh, that is good news, I've been watching all afternoon for an update. I can't blame the nurses for falling for him as he is such a lovely boy. Hope he has a pain free night.
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We're overwhelmed by all your lovely comments of support, Will's is now back home, with Anti-biotics and Metacam, all went well with the op and all the nurses fell in love with him.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-PviJMCVCerk/UvEqBONkUAI/AAAAAAAAMC4/VQnPiOt0kVg/s512/060.JPG)
A little subdued but's that to be expected, will need to check over the next few days that he doesn't show too much interest in the wound.
So relieved.
M.
With such a gorguss face like that how could you not fall in love with him :luv: so glad that things went well Maurice :luv: x x x
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Bless him he does look a little spaced.... But very handsome :luv:
Hope you all have a good night and tomorrow sees him starting to recover x
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Lovely that William is back home, albeit a little woozy :luv: Not surprised the nurse fell in love, he is so handsome and sweet. :luv:
Hope you all have a good sleep tonight. :bigarmhug:
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So pleased that William is back home safe and well. Hope his recovery goes smoothly and he is soon back to himself.
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So pleased to read he is back home. He looks very handsome and quite regal on that photo. Brave boy William (and brave mum and dad too!) :luv: :luv: Love from Kerry, Des and Bonnie.
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:luv: :luv:
Delighted William is safely back home. He looks amazingly well, considering. Very handsome fella.
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Glad to hear all went well. Sending sweet William all the best
Erica
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So glad it all went well with William, wishing him a speedy recovery :luv:
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Pleased he is back home. Hope you all have a peaceful night xx
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Willyum, did the vet an hairyman put yur nutti nutz in a jar for the
mantul shelf? JiNley
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Glad he is home and not to uncomfortable
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I dunno Jinley he left me my big one, I fink daddy insisted, dunno wat 'appened to the little one, maybe he give it to the nursey girlies as a little gift from me, as they all seemed to like me. :005:
see yoos soon jinley' I hopes you don't laff at me cos I've only got one,we can still find poo and muddy stuff n'all.
William.
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Ah swift and uneventful
recovery wishes to hansum :luv:
William from all the hairy feetxxx
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He is so beautiful! Glad all went well. :D
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Downt wurry Willyum, I will av a luk for it wiv yu at kiNva.
Did yu no we ar eytin dinna at a playce curled the KAT afta? :011: :011:
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fanks Jinley, i's norappy today they've put this ringything round me neck to stop me inspecting me bits, but i's found if i really really try I can still get to it.
William.
Wills was very subdued last night unwilling to move and I had to sleep downstairs with him. This morning he's a little brighter, ate some breakfast, but still hasn't been out to have a wee.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-YveAQkjMb-Y/UvIgPCUKSCI/AAAAAAAAMDY/CgD7qasj_ac/s640/014.JPG)
Had to put the comfy collar on him to try and stop him getting at the wound, not with 100% success, and having to watch him.
M.
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Awwwwww poor wills in his comfy collar. When willow was spayed she had one, put it on her and she froze to the spot. Luckily she didnt try and get at her wound.
Get well soon wills xx
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fanks Jinley, i's norappy today they've put this ringything round me neck to stop me inspecting me bits, but i's found if i really really try I can still get to it.
William.
Wills was very subdued last night unwilling to move and I had to sleep downstairs with him. This morning he's a little brighter, ate some breakfast, but still hasn't been out to have a wee.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-YveAQkjMb-Y/UvIgPCUKSCI/AAAAAAAAMDY/CgD7qasj_ac/s640/014.JPG)
Had to put the comfy collar on him to try and stop him getting at the wound, not with 100% success, and having to watch him.
M.
Aww wills, don't twy n eat yoor botom bitzys. I ad a wing fingy on wen me leg woz gwowin a spare bit n de wing fingy dint stop me twying to aet me spare bit n now I as to ware a vewy long lampshade fingy cos I keep twying to eat me stich fings. If I dint eat me spare fing on me leg I wunt hav had to hav a operashion fing by the weanhairy ladyso be vewwy caweful . Rufus
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Aaw William you are so handsome :luv: :luv: :luv:
I'm sure you'll be feeling back to your old self soon. :luv: :luv:
PS I love how neatly you keep you toys on the fireplace- can you come and teach Olllie and Poppy to do that! ;)
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KWIK EVryWON, WILLYUM HAS HIS HED STUK INSYD HIS DADdis SPAYR TYR :fear2: :fear2: WE SHUD GO ROWND AN ELP
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Poor William, still he should be fine for his Yorkshire trip :005:
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Awww William :luv: hope you are back to your old self really soon. :luv:
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Bless ya William....you are looking better and better already. So glad you're on the mend :luv: :luv:
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Oh William you are such a handsome and very brave boy - hope you are feeling a lot better very soon :luv: :luv:
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Looking good William :luv:
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Just read through this thread and seen the pics of William - bless his heart! He doesn't look happy at all, but I'm sure he's a little brighter today.
It's all worth it when you know you've substantially reduced the risk of cancer. Hugs x
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Wonderful to receive so many great comments re William's progress. :D
Appetite is good and the wound seems stable. They also found a tiny hernia when they operated which they sorted.
Yesterday he still seemed a bit spaced out, and in some discomfort, but this morning he is much brighter. We were getting a little concerned yesterday because he hadn't had a wee since before his op, but thankfully last night he did one - what a relief for us all ;) He's also since done a poo, so all the internal plumbing is operating.
Slept downstairs on the floor again with him last night to guard against him licking the wound, needn't have worried he snuggled under the duvet and slept quietly for most of the night, he'd better not get too used to that!. :005:
Mobility has improved a lot and he's getting upstairs to my office now, at least I can keep a close anti- lick watch on him.
M.
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Bless :luv: I'm glad he's feeling more comfortable, here's to a speedy recovery!
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Glad to hear William is brighter Maurice, they are such a worry arent they?
It was more than 24 hours after the op before Jinley had a wee and we were getting slightly worried (and paranoid) until she had been.
I am sure he will be back to his normal self soon (and no doubt taking advantage of the sympathy you have been showing him) :005: :005:
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That's good news, that William is feeling brighter. I'm impressed you slept on the floor with him Maurice, the bed is sooo much more comfortable for you and William ;)
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Ah sounds as though he's
doing just fine... hurrah!
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Sounds as though William is doing really well :D
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Thank you, Lesley, Pat, Claire, Steff, and Jayne.
@Pat - I thought I would post about the 'wee' timeline as it may help others in a similar situation to get an idea of the 'norm' We have dispensed with the spare tyre (as Jinley calls it), it wasn't really effective and he is responding to an Ah Ah if he shows interest.
@Claire - I don't think I would have slept any better had I gone to bed, waking at every sound in case he was 'at it',
as it was lying next to me I would know if he moved. I think Jan is just a teenyweeny bit jealous that Wills is snuggling under a duvet with me :005:
M.
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Glad the spare tyre has gone, William will be pleased :luv: The wound can't be bothering him too much if he is not that determined to get at it.
Poor Jan, jealous of William being snuggled under the duvet with you, I imagine she feels neglected :005:
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KWIK EVryWON, WILLYUM HAS HIS HED STUK INSYD HIS DADdis SPAYR TYR :fear2: :fear2: WE SHUD GO ROWND AN ELP
:005: :005:
JinLey an me iz on ower way WilLium. Don't worree. We iz goin to sayve yoo.
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Day three following the op, and Wills is seeming much better, but wound licking is still a problem if he gets the chance.
I apologise to those who may be a little squeamish at the sight of wounds but this is the result of William's operation.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-cYMu6MGz8G8/UvUDSL-3CBI/AAAAAAAAMEQ/nC9bQrxqwhc/s640/002.JPG)
It is apparently stitched inside but I can't get my head around why externally there seems such a gap in places. The swelling is starting to go down and it is not as red as following the op, and doesn't seem to be infected at all. It just looks untidy to my eye.
He is due for a follow up next Tuesday.
With the 'spare tyre' collar dispensed with we were looking for another way to stop Wills reaching the wound. The evenings and night seem to be the worst for licking, which doesn't make for much rest.
So Anti - lick Mk11.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-lsJDjqS5YLo/UvUDWoHhiPI/AAAAAAAAMEY/d17t-5gfems/s640/011.JPG)
Ah, another interesting problem you've set me - well I'll soon have this off - and he did, the fatal flaw in design was it fell off when he stood on his back legs.
Still we intend to persevere with a Mk111.
One other thing I can't quite understand is the pain relief. He is prescribed (2) 1mg Metacam tablets to be taken both together each morning, they are apparently supposed to cover 24 hrs, but we noticed last evening that he seemed to be in a little discomfort. I would have thought that pain relief would have been spread over the day with several doses.
Still we are thankful that Wills seems well and has a good appetite.
M
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Poor William doesnt look impressed with his man pants does he :005: :005:
Might be worth giving the vet a call to see if his dose can be split into 2. Jinleys, although a much smaller scar, had a couple of gaps in it also and those gaps now stand a bit prouder than the rest, but not sure if they were as big as Williams at the end??
Its a pity you cant get a very large tubigrip bandage for his belly!
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Thanks Pat, it's reassuring to know that it's not a case of sloppy stitching, no doubt the Vet will explain it all when we see him on Tuesday.
Hopefully his need for pain relief will be decreasing now, but I might split them into two doses, morning and evening and see if it makes a difference.
M.
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Poor William, it looks quite a big scar. He has been very brave :bigarmhug:
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That's a nasty scar William but it doesn't affect your handsome self in the slightest. Glad you are recovering and hope your mum n dad are getting over it all too xx
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It looks a fairly big incision Maurice. Did the vet manage to find the testicle straight away? When Charlie had the same op, he ended up with two incisions because the vet couldn't find it :o but he soon healed. William looks great, despite the indignity of a tyre and knickers :005:
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Awwww, poor William. :luv: Although Archie's incision was a bit smaller (no rummaging for missing nutty nutz :shades:) it did look very similar in terms of the gaps etc. Archie had major complications leading to additional incisions for multiple drains etc. it went on for weeks. The good news is that now you can't even see a scar! I'm sure William will be all neat and tidy again in no time.
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Glad he is feeling better When Jenny had her op she never bothered with wound but I wrapped a small scarf round it to keep cold out and clean as it was in January
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Claire, Kerry,Mel, Emma, and Joan,
Thank you for your reassurances, I think it was fairly straighforward finding the mini nut, Tom said it had very nearly descended.
With day five since the op there is a marked improvement in the the look of the wound, less red, less swollen, and William is leaving it mostly alone which means there is no need for anti lick pants, :005: and I have been able to return to my bed for the past couple of nights.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-zLo2FIboMvE/Uvd3jjPejnI/AAAAAAAAMGE/exZwxoyOoGc/s576/060.JPG)
William is back to his old self now and eager to go for a run, but for the present he is restricted to road walks to avoid the risk of a late infection.
Still hoping to attend at the Kinver meet, and we take heart that Miss Pearl was running around the Stiperstones a few days after her op.
M
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Pleased to hear William is well on the road to recovery. Sorry we won't be able to come to the Kinver meet, as we so enjoyed the last one, but we are off to warmer climes! Hope William is soon running around.
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Glad William is doing well, back to normal very soon - mud, mud and more mud. :005:
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Looking good William :luv:
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So glad William is getting back to full strength. He looks great in the latest photo! Wish we were joining you at Kinver but its just a little bit too far. Keep getting better William :luv: :luv:
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Just checking in to see how William is getting on. So pleased that he is looking a lot brighter, and still soooo handsome....make a quick recovery William :luv:
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:luv: he's gorguss!
pleased to read he's improving,
that scar looked quite angry to
me.
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Last update, Wills was signed off by our Vet this morning; he's pleased with the way it went, and has said he will be fine to attend the cocker meet next Sunday. :banana:
Just for the record the cost of Wills op was £330.
Thank you all fellow CoL'ers for your support.
M
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:clapping: :clapping: Yeah! Brilliant recovery William! Enjoy your day out and hope to see you some time soon xxx