CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Health => Topic started by: JohnK on August 20, 2012, 11:57:08 AM
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note from mods: topic split from Vaccination thread as off topic
Stephanie
Not sure about a connection between vaccination and Lymphoma, but we lost Danny our springer to Lymphoma in May this year.
He was due his boosters in September, but we found the lymphoma in May 2011 and with the aid of chemotherapy we managed to give him a full and happy life for another 12 months.
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Thanks John, i am so sorry to hear that you lost Danny to this dreadful disease :'(
it was just a thought, i have not mentioned the vaccinatations to her, they have always done their best for their dogs, they are fed on James Wellbeloved, i think she did wonder if food might have something to do with it. Apparently Boxers are at the high risk end of catching Lymphoma along with Bull dogs and another of the Bull breeds, which i cannot remember now. She would really like to find out, and perhaps send a donation for further research on this, seeing as he was only 6 and went down hill so quickly. :016:
Stephanie, George and Hamish xxx
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Stephanie
We were told that cereals feed the growth of lymphoma, so were recommended a special food at £26 for 12 cans, but he wouldn't eat it. I tried using fresh chicken and fresh beef which he loved.
I've now found dried foods which do not contain cereals and will be feeding my two on them from now on. (& I sell flour for a living?)
How long did her dog last? We were told Danny would last 6 weeks maximum without chemo and his was the aggressive form. He actually lived 12 months almost to the day from starting chemo. Until the last couple of weeks you would never have known he was ill and we had a great holiday with him in the North East 6 weeks before he died, during the "summer week" we had in March.
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Hi John, thanks for the advice about the cereals, i don't know if James Wellbeloved contains cereals, but i will mention this to her. Apparently they noticed a lump on his leg a couple of weeks ago and the Vet said to keep an eye on it, he was then admitted to hospital soon after and unfortunately passed away whilst having an operation to remove it :'(
Stephanie, George and Hamish xxx
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We lost our wee Jess to lymphoma when she was only eight years old. She went downhill pretty rapidly from the diagnosis till the end - time to get our heads around the fact that we were going to lose her :'(
She had no vaccinations after the first puppy ones. This was deliberate on my part as we don't meet many other dogs and I don't see the need for unnecessary medical intervention. As for the cereals causing it, jury's out on that one. She certainly ate high cereal food, Beta and Burns, throughout her life. I wouldn't like to blame any one thing for causing lymphoma, but if there's a way to prevent it happening to other dogs I'm up for it.
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So sorry to hear about your little Jess.
Danny lasted longer than we ever expected, so long in fact that our vet is actually doing a thesis featuring his case.
He had real quality life for twelve months and it was only the last couple of weeks he went down hill, when it was obvious the chemo was no longer having an effect. He died exactly one week after his eighth birthday and his ashes are buried in a prominent position in our garden with a lovely fragrant rose (Sweet Dreams) planted on top.
We haven't had much luck recently with our spaniels, Daisy died aged 7 in 2004 of kidney failure, Fudge died just before her 7th birthday in 2010 and then Danny .....
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That's so sad about your spaniels, John. I think it's all down to luck as much as anything. Jonny, our springer wasn't expected to make old bones as he has bad hip dyplasia - the vet said he'd never seen worse hips and told us to keep him on a lead all the time. I didn't take his advice as I thought Jonny would prefer a short, happy life with pain relief when necessary, than an unnatural life on a lead. He's ten now and still enjoys life. He doesn't run much and is on a monthly painkiller, but he doesn't seem ready for the final journey anytime soon. :luv: :luv:
One of my JRTs lived to be nearly seventeen and the other had to be pts at six.
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We got Danny as a rescue at 6 months, he came with "Queen Anne" legs, then at 18 months he was diagnosed with severe hip dysplasia and having seen his x-rays it was pretty bad. We were told to give him lots of road walks on the lead and keep his running to a minimum. Even on his last day, he trotted around the local park with Minnie and I but he hadn't eaten for 2 days and not poo'd for 3 or 4 days, he also had a very large lump in his throat. Due to this the vet felt she could not give him any more chemo and said she felt he only had days to live, would be in pain and suggested he be pts. It was an easy decision in the end, because in the couple of hours since I walked him, he had deteriorated so much he could barely walk and was looking at me as if to say "I've had enough, Dad". I vowed I would never let him suffer so we stayed with him as he passed away.
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So sorry about your Danny, he must have been a very special boy. Its so hard to let them go but sometimes that's the final gift of love we can offer.
Our boerbul,Jess, was diagnosed with lymphoma in August last year. She had chemo and apart from a bad reaction to the first dose she's done amazingly well and nobody would ever guess she was sick. She's still going strong just over a year later and apart from having lost a little weight (but she is HUGE) my mum says she is still her happy self. I know the remission cant last forever and every day is a blessing that we must cherish with her. It was quite strange, after Jess was diagnosed there were 2 other boerbuls diagnosed with it in quick succession. It seems to be very prevalent in the bull breeds/brachycephalics.
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Danny went from May to August, stopped for a few weeks, then it came back and he was on normal chemo until january, when it was having no effect. He was on for 4 weeks then off one
He then went on a tablet form every three weeks, this was the "last resort" but he was really well until end of April then deteriorated rapidly.
He mended my broken heart after we lost Daisy so suddenly, I didn't bond with him straight away, but after a few weeks it just happened and he was the best dog I have ever owned.
At least we got away for a nice holiday with him and Minnie in March and he really enjoyed it. It was a hard decision as to should it be a cocker or a springer, but I felt we would never get one as good as him so went down the cocker route. You have probably read them problems I had with Brodie, so eventually got Dennis to be Minnie's best mate and I'm happy with my choice.
Two cockers are better than one
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He sounds like he was an amazing dog and that you blessed his life just as much as he did yours. Cockers are always a good choice :)
Jess's chemo protocol was doxorubicin and she had 5 doses a month apart overall. Her lymph nodes are still within normal limits at this point and apart from a bit of weight loss she's still her naughty monstrous self. Fingers crossed she's in remission for a long time yet.
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Danny had that drug every 4 weeks, he had one drug week one and three and another drug week 2, then doctorubicin every 4th week, then a weeks break.
I hope Jess continues to prosper, its so great seeing them enjoy their life, we never told him he was was very ill.
It can be quite expensive though, but our view was if we are paying it, he is still with us. He went through his £6k insurance and then about another £2k of our own money and I never begrudged any of it. Such a shame we only managed 12 months, he had many more great years left in him. I'll never forget him though
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There are lots of different chemo protocols used for lymphoma and overall it is one of the most "treatable" cancers in pets, although not curable. You're right, chemo does cost a pretty penny and it can really empty one's pocket. Our vet has been great and has given my folks a huge discount and allowed them to pay it off,without him Jess wouldn't be around. You are right though, their love and loyalty cannot be measured monetarily and so we can never begrudge that which we spend on them to better and prolong their lives. I think Danny was lucky to have been loved and cared for so much right to the very end.
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He was truly a fantastic dog, I wish I was still paying for him now.
This is the last photo of him we have, drinking out of the pond, just before we took him to the vets.
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w489/Jmkenn451956/eb54cc71.jpg)
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Its awfully hard to let them go when we love them so much, but its our love in the end that makes us. They're with us in spirit forever though.
I'm on my mobile at the mo so can't see the pic but as soon as I get onto my computer I'll have a look.
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I'm sure he's gorgeous :)
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There are lots of different chemo protocols used for lymphoma and overall it is one of the most "treatable" cancers in pets, although not curable. You're right, chemo does cost a pretty penny and it can really empty one's pocket. Our vet has been great and has given my folks a huge discount and allowed them to pay it off,without him Jess wouldn't be around. You are right though, their love and loyalty cannot be measured monetarily and so we can never begrudge that which we spend on them to better and prolong their lives. I think Danny was lucky to have been loved and cared for so much right to the very end.
Our first cocker :luv: had lymphoma :'( Because he was quite old at the time of diagnosis (11) and was functionally blind as a result of PRA, we decided not to go down the IV route of chemo for 'cure' and opted instead for oral chemo plus steroids to manage the disease and his symptoms. Like Danny our Harvey had about further year of really good quality life before declining in the last day or so. The cost of chemo for that period was less than £20 (Twenty) - in fact there were some tablets left in the bottle after he had been put to sleep that I had to return to the pharmacy for disposal. Now I know that there are different types of lymphoma and depending on the specific type various chemotherapeutic agents are required, and I know some of them are really expensive - but I just wanted to say that Chemotherapy need not always be the expense we fear :D
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You're right AliceandLouis :) It isn't always frighteningly expensive, I think the doxorubicin is one of the more costly ones, but there are protocols that are very reasonable and highly effective too :) Like you say, I think it depends on the staging of the lymphoma and whether it is a T or B cell as to which is the most effective treatment. Sorry your baby had lymphoma , its a horrid disease:(
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Yes - the agent in Harvey's case was cyclophosphamide - early type of chemo, but it seemed to work very effectively for our old boy who was a much loved and cherished part of the family. The newer agents are indeed much more costly :o. My OH is a Haematologist and uses chemo in his daily work, so he and the vet had long discussions about the protocol for Harvey and all the technical stuff about the staging and typing of the Lymphoma, all of which was/is way over my head :005: - I was simply the crazy woman who used to chop the pills in half with a pill cutter (whilst carefully clad in rubber gloves), tuck the medication inside a lump of cheese and feed it to our very special 'patient' :luv: :luv: (see avatar for picture of 'himself')
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This is fascinating. I lost my first cocker to lymphoma when he was just 6 years old. He lived for 6 weeks after diagnosis. I wasn't even offered the option of chemo. The vet just said there was nothing that could be done and put him on prednisone. This was 18 years ago now so maybe treatments have improved. I hope so, I'm suddenly feeling like my boy didn't get given the best chance :'(
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Aliceandlouis, the pill cutter/feeder is the most important part of the equation :D From what I know, cyclophosphamide is still a common choice for lymphoma. I think they combine it with vincristine and pred these days (oncology was a while ago) and it is a much cheaper option. Our vet had the doxorubicin there and he just told my folks that he thought it was the best drug he had available and not to worry bout the costs, they could be sorted out later (he's a special vet). I think with the staging it is a case of a or b (a meaning they're not sick and b meaning they are) then the staging is just based on whether its spread.
Archiebean, I'm so sorry you lost your boy so early. I don't know if chemo was offered to dogs then. I think things have come a long way since then...
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Sorry I meant the typing is whether its a T cell or B cell and the staging is a or b and whether its spread :)
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This is fascinating. I lost my first cocker to lymphoma when he was just 6 years old. He lived for 6 weeks after diagnosis. I wasn't even offered the option of chemo. The vet just said there was nothing that could be done and put him on prednisone. This was 18 years ago now so maybe treatments have improved. I hope so, I'm suddenly feeling like my boy didn't get given the best chance :'(
So sorry to hear about your boy :luv: We were given the option of no treatment, with a prognosis similar to the one your boy experienced. As Coopersmum says, giving chemo to dogs 18 years ago was not a common practice in contrast to today, so I am sure your boy was given the best recognised treatment of the time - things do move on in an alarming fashion and it must be heartbreaking to read of things that are now being done that could have helped your boy back then :luv:
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When we first heard Danny had Lymphoma, we were told he had 6 weeks without chemo and that particular vet did not recommend it and having seen humans suffer with it I didn't want him to have it. However, my daughter's friend is a vet nurse and said you must give him a chance, so we went to see our regular vet who was all for it. He lived a very normal life for 12 months and didn't suffer.