CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Health => Topic started by: MillicentWight on August 19, 2016, 06:40:44 PM
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Any advice please?
Willow is our two and a half year old blue roan and she has been having eye problems for a couple of months now.
Both eyes are red most of the time with her third eyelids showing and one eye is always full of tears and often only half open.
The vet diagnosed conjunctivitis and prescribed Cloramphenicol which didn’t help, then Isathal, and finally Maxitrol and Viscotears, but nothing has really helped at all.
He has also put green dye into her eyes to examine them on two occasions but found nothing wrong so he gave us some more drops and told us to come back in four weeks time.
Today Willow’s eyes were so bad that we decided to take her back to the vet again but this time we saw a young lady vet at the same practice. After examining her eyes again with the green dye she informed us that Willow has a corneal ulcer forming in one eye and she has now been booked in on Tuesday morning for a more thorough examination under anaesthetic to try and find the cause of the red and weeping eyes. The vet thinks the two most likely causes could be dry eye or ingrowing eyelashes.
Does anybody know how serious the ulcer is likely to be or what is likely to have caused it? We shudder to think how bad it may have become if we had waited the four weeks before taking her back again.
Also when we spoke to the first vet about Willow's red eyes I asked if he thought it could be hayfever but he told me that most vets don't accept that dogs suffer from allergies. I cannot believe this to be true?
Thanks for reading.
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We had exactly this problem with our blue roan,Poppy, when she was 2. We kept going back to the vets and had different drops and then she had a general when they carried out a 'debride' and had to wear a contact lens. However this still didn't solve the problem and we were referred to a specialist at The Willows, where they have super duper equipment. The eye specialist there quickly diagnosed an in growing eye lash inside her eye lid, they removed it and scraped the inner eyelids (yuk) to prevent future reoccurrence. Fingers crossed she has had no problems since, touch wood, that was about 3 years ago.
Apparently this problem is more common in blue roans. If I was in your shoes I would ask for a referral and get a more specialist opinion. ❤️
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Thanks for the reply.
We will see what happens after Tuesday. Living where we do on the Isle of Wight makes travelling very difficult.
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fingers crossed that you get good news on Tuesday
:bigarmhug:
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Coral's eyes were quite weepy in the sun - she had mild entroprion in both lower lids which were affecting the ability of the tear duct to drain properly. She's now 3 weeks on from minor surgery (at the same time as spaying so only one general anaesthetic) and already seems a lot better. Thankfully the condition was very mild so she's had no lasting damage to her eyes.
The Vet game me some lubrithral for her when she first came home to help protect the eye - it might be worth exploring what you can do to prevent further damage until,you have a reason why the ulcer is forming.
Hope Willow recovers quickly
Jayne
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Hoping for good news for you, and following this with interest, being the owner of a blue roan pup with what seem to me to be weepy eyes.
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Thanks your replies.
Willow has been prescibed eye drops called Remend Cornea Repair Gel and some more drops called Exocin and she is also on Metacam.
I have read that eye problems are very common with cocker spaniels, but having been told by the first vet we saw that the cause is often difficult to find and that there is the possibility of blindness or losing an eye, we are really worried.
Seems to be very little information specifically about corneal ulcers, and as there would seem to be no one on here with experience of them I am guessing they are not so common.
Poor Willow, looking at her one would think she is completey blind as much of the time all you can see is the whites of her eyes - which are red! She has to wear a blow up collar to try and stop her from scratching her eyes as they are so itchy, but night time we have to remove it as she sleeps in her crate with the door open and she couldn’t get through the door with it on.
Just hope they can find the reason for her eye problems on Tuesday and then they can start to get better.
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Poor Willow. As Humphrey's my first cocker, I've no experience either but reading your account of what the first vet said, I would be more inclined to wait for another opinion before you fret too much about her going blind. First of all, to say that dogs don't suffer allergies is quite a "remarkable"(!) thing to say when we're constantly reading about the rise in food intolerances and allergic reactions to vaccinations etc etc. Humphrey's eyes were very sticky every morning for weeks on end but it it went as suddenly as it came, probably with the pollen. I'm not suggesting that pollen is the cause in Willow's case, but just thinking that dogs probably DO have allergies and I'm pretty sure there are lots of people on here who would agree!
To be honest, I think to frighten you with such a pessimistic prognosis at this stage, when the cause hasn't even been determined is very tactless and a bit mean.
Try not to worry too much until you know more. Fingers crossed that you'll find out the cause on Tuesday and that you can get the problem sorted out soon! :bigarmhug:
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Thanks your replies.
Willow has been prescibed eye drops called Remend Cornea Repair Gel and some more drops called Exocin and she is also on Metacam.
Trust everything goes well for Willow. Please would you let us know?
Millie has a corneal ulcer at the moment, with the same medication except Previcox instead of Metacam.
Drops are x6 daily atm. 😳 Millie is very good about this as she knows a treat follows! 😀
I shall be so glad for her if we can sort this out, as she has cataracts and no reflex when tested on the other eye... So, as I expect you are, I'm being the guide dog atm and choosing our walks very carefully, avoiding head high branches and twigs. Today she was partly on lead to stop her panicking in the open playing field we passed through..
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Sorry to read that poor Millie is going through similar with a corneal ulcer. Do hope it will improve soon.
I will post again as soon as we know more about the cause of Willow's condition.
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Bosley has recently had an eye ulcer but we think its most likely due to injury its now healed up but has left a tiny scar (Ruby did the same when she had a thorn pierce her eye but Lady's was due to dry - all cleared up and in Lady's case she's on optimmune now). They can sometimes take a while to heal properly but sometimes you think they still have the ulcer but in reality it may just be the scar you see (by naked eye) as it looks similar
What am surprised at is didn't they test for dry eye - easily done (same as the way they do it in humans) - its the Schirmer's test and doesn't need anaesthesia. Other eye tests sometimes need local/typical anaesthetic to the eyeball and as suggested some need GA/ deep sedation
Have they discussed a referral to see an eye vet at all
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Yes in fact they did a Shirmer's tear test and the result was 15mm for the eye with the corneal ulcer, which the vet said was normal, but only 5 mm for the other eye, suggesting dry eye I believe.
No mention has been made of a referral yet and we are hoping it can be resolved locally as we will have a problem travelling any distance. See what the outcome is Tuesday.
Thanks for the advice and nice to know that a corneal ulcer can get better.
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Thanks Millicent Wright and PennyB!
Millie's eyes were tested for dry eye, but found to be normal, 15mm for one eye and 21mm for the other. No idea how the injury occurred..
Our vet suggested that if there was no improvement soon, then an extract from Millie's own blood would be needed... I hope I've got that correct. No suggestion yet regarding a referral.
Our next vet visit is tomorrow... I'll post afterwards..
Time for her last drops of the day! ☺️
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What does puzzle me a bit with Willow is that her eye with the ulcer is always full of tears when it is open but the vet has only discussed dry eye and ingrowing eyelashes. No mention of blocked tear ducts. Hopefully they will find the answer on Tuesday. Both eyes actually seem so much better since Friday with the new drops we are using but it is probably only temporary.
I hope Millie's visit to the vets goes well tomorrow.
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My cocker has regular corneal ulcers - usually related to him leaping through long grass. I think his eye surface is a bit 'fragile'. Eye conditions like dry eye are often related to immune conditions. He also had a bout of uveitis. he is prescribed daily optimmune in both eyes and I also put gel tears in daily (as recommended by an eye specialist). His 'dry eye' isn't particularly bad, but the optimmune and gel seems to have helped, as well as having a supply of Exocin and metacam to administer when I see an issue starting. hope you get to the bottom of your dog's eye issue, but if not hopefully you can get it under control as I have with Ollie's. (also, Ollie's ulcers got quite bad at one point and took ages to heal - the ophthalmologist ended up scraping the surface of the eyeball to remove any dead tissue, and this worked well to help heal the ulcers).
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Vet visit completed at dinnertime. Both eyes checked again, as Millie had looked distinctly like a bloodhound this morning. Thankfully it is just the one eye with the corneal ulcer. Apparently she showed more reaction to light with this eye than before, there were minimal signs of healing, so the vet again abraded the ulcer. There was less dead tissue than before.
Instead of the Remend gel, she now has to have serum eye drops after the Exocin antibiotic drops. The serum is white blood cells extracted from the blood of the vets own springer, done while we were there!
On top of this we're fighting an ear infection, previously in one ear, but now in both! Poor Millie!
I do hope Willow is on the mend...
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I am sorry the news wasn't that good for poor Millie but hopefully things will start to improve with the serum.
We have just come back from a short walk with Willow and she too is looking a bit like a Bloodhound now.
I feel sure that pollen allergy is at least part of her problem. We will just have to see what they find tomorrow.
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Vet visit completed at dinnertime. Both eyes checked again, as Millie had looked distinctly like a bloodhound this morning. Thankfully it is just the one eye with the corneal ulcer. Apparently she showed more reaction to light with this eye than before, there were minimal signs of healing, so the vet again abraded the ulcer. There was less dead tissue than before.
Instead of the Remend gel, she now has to have serum eye drops after the Exocin antibiotic drops. The serum is white blood cells extracted from the blood of the vets own springer, done while we were there!
On top of this we're fighting an ear infection, previously in one ear, but now in both! Poor Millie!
I do hope Willow is on the mend...
Bosley had the exocin drops the other week.
Is the new problem re light because the pupil isn't reacting as it should, ie, more fixed so letting in light and not contracting as it should do
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Just brought Willow back from the vets and we are very upset. He found nothing to cause the red watery eyes and has come to the conclusion that it probably an allergic reaction, but he has cauterized the ulcer and stitched up the third eyelid to aid healing for two weeks.
Worst news though is that he thinks he may have seen the early signs of PRA which means that Willow may end up going completely blind.
According to the breeder all her stud dogs are Optigen A1 tested for PRA and FN so I am praying that the vet has got it wrong. Meanwhile we are devastated. Be happier when we have managed to speak to her.
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So sorry to hear you still don't have any answers and are now even more worried! Sorry, don't have a much idea about PRA but just wondered what your vet meant by he "thinks" he "may" have seen signs of it? Might a second opinion perhaps help? If its worst case, you could at least prepare yourself but if he's wrong, then you'd save yourself a lot of anguish. I would at least ask him to be a little more specific.
Keeping fingers crossed for you!! :bigarmhug:
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Just brought Willow back from the vets and we are very upset. He found nothing to cause the red watery eyes and has come to the conclusion that it probably an allergic reaction, but he has cauterized the ulcer and stitched up the third eyelid to aid healing for two weeks.
Worst news though is that he thinks he may have seen the early signs of PRA which means that Willow may end up going completely blind.
According to the breeder all her stud dogs are Optigen A1 tested for PRA and FN so I am praying that the vet has got it wrong. Meanwhile we are devastated. Be happier when we have managed to speak to her.
I'm sorry to hear that. The type of PRA that can be DNA tested for is the one most commonly found in Cockers and onset is typically in middle age, around 7+ years, so it seems unlikely at Willow's age. However, there are other types of PRA that can't be tested for, although they're not common in Cockers.
Speaking to the breeder is a good idea in case she knows anything about this, but also to inform her in case it's a hereditary problem that she's not aware of.
Are there any ophthalmic vets on the IOW? If not, there are a couple at Seadown Veterinary Hospital, near Hythe, about 20 minutes drive from Lymington. I don't know if that would be an option for you.
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So sorry to hear that news, but I would really try and get to see a specialist. When we took Poppy to the vet they couldn't see the tiny ingrown hair on the inside of her eyelid. The specialists have equipment that you wouldn't get in ordinary vet practices. The opthalamist saw it straight away when we took her there and sorted it straight away.
Really hope you can get it sorted.
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So sorry to hear the news about Willow. Wonder if this is any good for you, as I've been drifting through it for ideas for Millie: www.blinddogdescueuk.com.
We meet a blind cocker quite regularly in our local park. Honey has had both eyes removed and is all the more comfortable for it. She's about seven yrs old. She's learnt extra commands quickly according to her owner, such as wait, mind, up, down (steps) turn (away from danger/other dogs) Most other owners dont realise that she is blind as Honey reacts so normally. Indeed they are puzzled, as when, during conversation, her owner seems to make irrelevant comments to her dog! Honey's and indeed Millie's nose rule now!
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Vet visit completed at dinnertime. Both eyes checked again, as Millie had looked distinctly like a bloodhound this morning. Thankfully it is just the one eye with the corneal ulcer. Apparently she showed more reaction to light with this eye than before, there were minimal signs of healing, so the vet again abraded the ulcer. There was less dead tissue than before.
Instead of the Remend gel, she now has to have serum eye drops after the Exocin antibiotic drops. The serum is white blood cells extracted from the blood of the vets own springer, done while we were there!
On top of this we're fighting an ear infection, previously in one ear, but now in both! Poor Millie!
I do hope Willow is on the mend...
Bosley had the exocin drops the other week.
Is the new problem re light because the pupil isn't reacting as it should, ie, more fixed so letting in light and not contracting as it should do
Actually there's a little improvement, with her pupil showing more reaction than before...just hoping it continues, especially with the serum instead of the Remend drops. The Exocin drops continue as before.
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Thanks for the replies, just have to see how things go now. Having spoken to the breeder she said that it is very improbable that Willow could develop PRA as both parents have to carry the gene to pass the disease on, and this is echoed on the kennel club and cocker spaniel sites so we just hope the vet is mistaken. Since speaking to him again he has said that PRA is just a suspicion and not a diagnosis at this time, so we are trying to feel positive.
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Sending over positive thoughts for Willow :luv: :bigarmhug:
Stephanie, George and Hamish xxx
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Just brought Willow back from the vets and we are very upset. He found nothing to cause the red watery eyes and has come to the conclusion that it probably an allergic reaction, but he has cauterized the ulcer and stitched up the third eyelid to aid healing for two weeks.
Worst news though is that he thinks he may have seen the early signs of PRA which means that Willow may end up going completely blind.
According to the breeder all her stud dogs are Optigen A1 tested for PRA and FN so I am praying that the vet has got it wrong. Meanwhile we are devastated. Be happier when we have managed to speak to her.
did you see a specialist eye vet or is this a vet from your own practice
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We saw a vet from our own practice. The PRA is in no way related to the eye problems that he has been seeing Willow for, so we will wait until they are sorted and then see if there is anyway of taking her to a specialist eye clinic.
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We saw a vet from our own practice. The PRA is in no way related to the eye problems that he has been seeing Willow for, so we will wait until they are sorted and then see if there is anyway of taking her to a specialist eye clinic.
I would see the eye specialist if I were you - what you don't want is for your insurance/money to run out before you get there
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We took Willow back to the vets yesterday as we were worried because her eye was half open and we could see the third eyelid but he said that it was ok and we should bring her back in ten days time to have the stitches removed.
Today we had to go back again as her eye was fully open with the third eyelid not visible. The vet looked at her eye and said willow had burst the stiches but not to worry as her eye is healing well, and then he removed the stitches. We are so pleased but a little worried in case it is too soon.
As for the PRA, he said it was not meant to be a positive diagnoses but just that when looking into her eyes he saw something in the back of her retinas which triggered his suspicion and thought we should know. We are trying to feel positive but in all honesty we would rather we hadn't been told and just the thought of Willow going blind at such a young age is breaking our hearts, especially as our last cocker spaniel, Millie, developed thrombocytopenia at just about the same age and lost her fight for life aged just six years old.
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Pleased its all starting to heal now and you're feeling more positive
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We took Willow back to the vets yesterday as we were worried because her eye was half open and we could see the third eyelid but he said that it was ok and we should bring her back in ten days time to have the stitches removed.
Today we had to go back again as her eye was fully open with the third eyelid not visible. The vet looked at her eye and said willow had burst the stiches but not to worry as her eye is healing well, and then he removed the stitches. We are so pleased but a little worried in case it is too soon.
As for the PRA, he said it was not meant to be a positive diagnoses but just that when looking into her eyes he saw something in the back of her retinas which triggered his suspicion and thought we should know. We are trying to feel positive but in all honesty we would rather we hadn't been told and just the thought of Willow going blind at such a young age is breaking our hearts, especially as our last cocker spaniel, Millie, developed thrombocytopenia at just about the same age and lost her fight for life aged just six years old.
Good news that Willow's eye is healing well :D.
With regard to the possible PRA diagnosis, if Willow was mine I'd take her to a specialist ophthalmic vet to get a proper diagnosis. Hopefully there's absolutely nothing to worry about, but there a few conditions that can cause changes to the retina, not just PRA. At least you will know for sure one way or the other, and for me that would be better than not knowing and having a niggling worry at the back of my mind all the time. But it's your decision of course.
The DNA testing for PRA in Cockers is only for the most common type in the breed. Because Willow's parents were both tested clear it's highly unlikely that she will develop it. But there are less common types of PRA that occasionally crop up in Cockers and there isn't a DNA test for them. So there's a very slim chance that Willow could be affected.
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I totally agree with Elaine.e, eyes are so precious I wouldn't take any chances. At least if you took willow to a specialist you will know one way or the other and know you have done the best for her ;)
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Thank you for your replies.
I agree with you and elaine.e and I am really grateful for the advice but foolish as this may seem, as there is no cure and nothing to slow down the disease or even relieve the symptons I am not sure that getting a diagnosis at this time would be best for us or Willow as it may well destroy the optimism and positivity that we have at the moment which is keeping us sane.
We just love her so much and must try to keep believing she will not lose her sight, something that we just could not cope with. So we will just keep hoping.
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Just a quick update to say that Willow was 'signed off' from the vet today as the eye operation would seem to have been a complete success, so far at least. Apart from being a little red at times, both eyes sparkle now and she is running around like a two year old again. He even said that it's ok for her to go on the beach. We are so pleased, but still a bit apprehensive about the future following the mention of PRA of course which we are still thinking very carefully about.
Meanwhile can I just thank every one for the advice and support.
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Quick update on Millie, to say she's had the all clear from our vet! YAY!
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Brilliant. So pleased. Thanks for letting us all know. Willow still seems to be doing well.
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Really glad Willow is doing well!
People look askance at Millie's 'Blind dog' lead cover, but she proved beyond doubt yesterday that her vision is failing... She 'lost' me on the school field, started back tracking using her nose (clever girl) but the breeze had pushed our scent over. One moment I could see her, the next split second, nothing! Ran to check and she'd fallen into the deep grass lined drain that crosses the field! Nothing injured (phew!) just pride and lots of yucky mud up one side.
Once out, it was lead on till we were in the park on a defined cinder track, where she can distinguish edges...
I'll have to ask my blind human friend how he manages: many people aren't aware of his disability, either...
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Wonderful news that Willow is doing so well. We have just (last Tuesday) taken a 6ish year old cocker bitch from RSPCA kennels and although her eyes looked fine when we saw her there since being home she has very red eyes, one worse than the other, with the third eyelid showing. Our vet has given her Isothal and said come back in a week if there's no improvement, which so far there isn't. She absolutely hates having it put in her eyes too. It's a concern, as if she needs to see a specialist, as she developed this so quickly she's not covered by insurance. Can anyone give me a rough idea what it would cost to see an eye specialist if she ends up needing one?
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Take a deep breath!
Millie was referred last year to opthamologists in Newmarket. Only one examination as no further treatment was necessary. Seem to remember it cost about £400.
I suspect and hope for you that there are others who would not be so expensive.
However, she still gets eyes much as you describe: our vet has given us Maxitrol drops for use as and when they occur. The vet noted that this had happened at the same time last year, so an allergy is suspected. One day Millie is fine (as on the vet visit day!) and the next she looks as if she's had a night on the tiles! (Took a photo of her to show our vet that I wasnt imagining things!)
Do you give a treat to your dog straight after the drops? Worked wonders for Millie....
Good Luck Suzie Q!