CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Puppies => Topic started by: fionamarymac on November 26, 2020, 09:39:48 AM
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Hello all,
My first time posting, lovely to be apart of this forum. I wondered if you could ask from some advise on a WCS 6 months puppy I am very interested in bringing into my home. So he’s available from a very a gun dog kennel in the south of Scotland (seems to be a very reputable place from the research I’ve done - Nithvalley Gundogs). He has not made the cut to be part of the gundog team there as apparently he’s an indifferent retriever so they are happy for him to go to a pet home. Wondering in general what people’s thoughts are on pups who were intended to work but didn’t quite have the feel for it? I’m looking very good temperament which brings me to another question, can this be understood quite well at the age of 6 months? I’ve not had a puppy since I was young.
I’m going to spend time with him on Saturday and meet some of the other family. Another slight concern I had was his COI certificate which is 16.6% which I understand while high is relatively normal for wcs, what’s everyone’s thoughts? Parents are both health tested and he had his initial tests when born.
I feel confident in where he’s coming from but would be good to hear general thoughts. About me - I am 35, active, have a garden, live by the forth in Edinburgh with many walks near by. Have walked cockers and stockers and have a feel for the breed. Want a dog to be a house companion but also train up (I have time on my hands to do this), and get me out doing classes with him and walks of course. Also, I work from home...when I do have to be away for any reason he will go to my brother (with 3 year old) or my mother. Also should add I grew up with labs and collies so have experience with active working dogs.
Oh one other thing, he’s been in a kennel on his own up till now so house training will all be new. As will life in a city. He will though have been well socialised with people and dogs by this point.
So any advice on what to look for and ask when I visit him would be massively appreciated by you good people!
Thanks,
Fiona
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My wcs is from working stock. She will flush game but not keen on retrieve. She is also a couch potato and sleeps in bed with us. So no worries about a failed worker. Anyway there is probably just one part it failed. A worker can retrieve, can flush, do scent work etc. So just find, by trial and error what it excels at and go for that if you want. The main thing is to mentally simulate. That could just be throwing a ball for it to find and bring back. It is you their human who they live for and to please. You sound as though you already have a good life planned and also the dog is still young enough to remould. Go for it and may the force be with you
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I think you have a great set up, and have obviously given this a lot of thought. He is still young and will soon learn the rules of toilet training, he is possibly clean in his kennel. As for personality, cockers are the best thing since sliced bread, and we are none of us impartial on this forum! :005: Please keep us posted on how it all goes, would love to hear.
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Thanks to both of you for your empowering words. It’s such a minefield and I want to ensure I’ve done all that I can to make the right decision on the right pup, but of course there is always risk involved! I’m really looking at this as a project to work on with the puppy and it’s a good way to keep me occupied too....life has been very quiet of late so I’m ready for a shake up which I’m sure I’ll get if all works out with this guy.
I’ll let you know how I get on. Thanks again...nice to have some encouragement...the Internet can be a scary place when it comes to researching wcs!
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Go for it. I have had cockers for almost 40 years and they are the most wonderful dogs. Admittedly mine have all been show cockers. I have recently adopted a 2 year old blue roan bitch who is deaf. I felt a little daunted at first, but I met Maisie 3 times before she came to live with me. It was all taken very gradually, I met her at the rescue home, then she came to me for the day and finally overnight. She was very anxious at first, and still is to an extent with visitors, but with me she is a typical Velcro cocker. When she is on the sofa with me at night and creeps up so her head is on my chest, she looks into my eyes as if saying
thank you for rescuing me, I do love You, she just melts me. I had never rescued a dog before, always had puppies from a breeder. Maisie had also lived in a kennel situation for a number of months and house training has taken a little while but she is fine now. You will know when you meet the dog. If you like the dog when you meet him you will never regret having a cocker, they are adorable. You seem to have thought this out very thoroughly and sensibly so all that remains is to go and meet him. Keep us posted please.
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Hi and welcome! I didn‘t reply straight away as Humphrey is my first cocker and as he‘s show I wasn‘t sure if my opinion was worth much weight ;). But for what its worth, - I‘ve always had dogs and they‘ve all been great companions but if you‘re looking for a dog who‘s happy doing almost anything as long as its with you, who‘s eager to learn and is up for anything and who appears to radiate sunshine 24/7 then a cocker, show or worker, will fit the bill. All dogs can have their quirks, they‘re no different to people in that respect but with a positive attitude and a willingness to put a bit of time into training, you can usually iron out or adapt to any little „problems“. From what you‘ve said, if the initial viewing goes well and you‘re happy with his health, I‘d also say Go for it.
You‘ll get lots of support from all the wonderful people on here, whatever the issue there‘s always someone who can help. Look forward to hearing how it goes!
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"expecting a shake up". Expect a force 5 hurricane, because that's what's coming. Brace yourself. :luv: :luv:
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Hi, go for it. Nithvalley are very well known in the trialling world, and it's likely this young dog hasn't made the 'cut' for trialling (where they need to both hunt well and retrieve). And then many triallers mostly pick up with their dogs when not competing, so his lack of keenness to retrieve would mean he would be better to rehome. So nothing likely inherently wrong with him as a dog. He usually health tests his stock as well so that's good. The COI is nothing to worry about (two of my cockers are over 25%). COI is often high in trial bred dogs. 16% is fine (and mostly irrelevant if the parents have been health tested). His character should be pretty well formed by now so you could tell more about it than in an 8 week old puppy. The house training should be easy enough - just do it as you would for a young puppy. he knows no different i.e. not learned bad habits house training wise as not been inside. So i'd say, go and see him (bet he has a great pedigree), see if you like him, and if you do - bring him home :luv: and don't forget to keep us posted!
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Thanks again all for the advice and support, really appreciate it.
Emilyoliver, thanks for reassurance on the COI......understanding this is all so very new to me and quite strange! He does have good pedigree which actually is a bit of a concern as he is from lines all bred for field trailing (and very successful at it!) but hopefully as they've decided he's not right for that he will make a good dog for the house and adventures outside.
Anyway, I will find out what he's like tomorrow and update. Happy Friday all!
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Cockers are just awesome dogs, you will have the best fun and your life will never be the same in so many good ways. I cannot wait until you get back to us with an update, very excited for you and your new family member. Enjoy the day.
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ejp is bang on. :luv: He will transform your life, he will be your loving companion, your best friend and will make you laugh every day. He will bring enormous joy to you. Cockers are just wonderful, amazing dogs.
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Hello all,
So I went to visit and of course he was beautiful! He was very friendly and happy but calmed right down when I was chatting. I met his mum and watched her do some work with some homing pigeons and a cap gun, she was incredible! Very calm also and extremely focused on her job! Met his grandad too, the whole family!
So he will be coming to live with me next week and so now I must quickly prepare! I will I think let him settle and then start some gentle training, he already knows a few things. One question I have for you all, how would I best toilet train him? I assume not as a very young people as he'll have more control....I'm assuming there will be some accidents, luckily I have wooden floors! Would I need puppy pads for training for is he too old for that?
Also, I'm struggling to know what to buy him to sleep on, just a small bed for his create?
Thanks again all! Very excited, he is a black beauty! He needs a good wash though, kennel life is not fresh!
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Thank you for the update, I have been thinking about how it was all going today. Sounds like you have had a brilliant day. I'm a little bit jealous, ok, I am a lot jealous! :005: Toilet training an ex puppy farm breeding dog around 3/4 years old, we took the following approach. Pro actively take him out to the garden, when he does a wee or poo, lots of praise. He won't know where he supposed to 'go' and where the door is to get out, so it is up to you to show him all that. Anytime he does it outside whether on walks or in the garden, lots of praise. If he has an accident, no fuss, just clean up. A solution that has biological washing powder/liquid is best as it breaks down the enzymes and does a better job of removing smells so he is less likely to return to the same spot. So first thing in the morning, regularly through the day after food and naps. As for a bed, if you have a crate, cover it so the back and sides are enclosed, and just let that be his safe place. We never shut the crate door, but Daisy is older, she goes in and out at will. Again, we never reach in and disturb her, if we want her to come out, we call her. She loves a snooze in there, and snores loudly! The first few weeks we had her, I fed her in there so she knew it was her spot. If you get some vet bed it is snuggly, washes and dries really easily. That way you are not spending a fortune on beds until you get an idea of how he will be. You can get it on ebay at a decent price. I predict you will have beds all over the house, they do like their comforts :luv:
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:banana: :banana: Super!! He sounds perfect!!
I think others on here will probably have better advice on house training a young dog, although I imagine it won‘t be all that different to training a puppy really. I‘d take him out regularly at first and praise and treat everytime he does anything.
If you’re using a crate to start with, I‘d think an old blanket, maybe with an old towel on the top would do until you’re confident he‘s latched on to toilet training, you can get a proper bed later.
I didn‘t use either pads or newspaper when Humphrey was a puppy, I just took him out every couple of hours, after meals, after his naps, and after playing and he was fine, he picked it up pretty quickly. I‘d imagine with yours, as he‘d older and, as you say, has control he should be ok once he‘s settled in.
Looking forward to hearing more, have you decided on a name?
:D
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First off the term "failed" means that the current trainer does not see FT potential which could be for s very minor issue that most of us wouldn't see or if we did may not be bothered about but FT breeders / trainers have many dogs to bring on and can afford to move on dogs for minor issues (in there eyes).
I got Eze at 6 months the bloke I got her from had only just started to introduce her to the dummy and to hunting so in reality she was a blank canvas. She was kenneled and was no problem to house train in fact we only had one or two accidents before she got the message. You will have a fun journey but be under no illusions that a FT bred WC will demand a lot of mental stimulation, you will never tire him/her out with free running alone, plus his/her hunt, chase, kill, retrieve drive will be high so you will need to train some kind of break or stop to flush if you want to go off lead countryside walkies.......enjoy your journey 👍
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Thanks all for your replies and advice, what a lovely community!
Great advice re toilet training, we'll see how it goes, he is apparently quite clean in his kennel.
Yes I think the term 'failed' means he wasn't up to a very high standard. The owner said that he only keeps the very best of the best so I'm sure he'll absolutely still have a very high prey drive. It will certainly be a journey!
Names wise he does currently have a name but apparently its ok to change it, unsure how I feel about that but I quite like something a bit unusual, maybe Soren. Sounds to me like a Scottish name but actually scandi. I'm just gonna see what feels right when he comes home.
Will update again soon, thanks again all! xx
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The toilet training will come. It is a matter of observation. Obviously as soon as you get up take him right outside. After meals and regularly throughout the day to give him the opportunity. If he has had a snooze during the day, when he wakes take him outside and obviously last thing at night before you both go to bed. You may get a few disturbed nights as he will be used to "going" whenever the need arises. A dog's natural instinct is not to soil their bedding. Delighted you are having a new friend. What is his name, you didn't tell us. We must have a photo please. Look forward to hearing about his adventures. Perfect time, just before lockdown ends and ready for Christmas when you will have more time to be with him, walk him and train him.
As regards beds, I have the Joules Floral Restwell bed for Maisie in the lounge. It is extremely comfy for a tired pooch and the cover comes off very easily, it zips down the whole length so no struggling to get the inner part back inside the cover. Mine has been washed numerous times now, Maisie inherited this bed from my previous cocker, Jazz. Unfortunately having just looked on the Joules website there is no discount for Black Friday on this bed and they only seem to do one fabric pattern now. Mine is grey with a doggy breed pattern. I had the medium size, plenty of stretching room. Vet bed for the crate initially. It washes well and dries quickly, a great boon in winter. Good luck and PLEASE keep us posted.
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Just remember on the name choice, you will be yelling it at the top of your voice for years :lol2:
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Just remember on the name choice, you will be yelling it at the top of your voice for years :lol2:
So true :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:
On the subject of beds, I bought Daisy a Tuffies bed a few years ago. OH was a bit shocked :005: they are not cheap, but my goodness they are well made and madam loves it, sometimes think I will need a shoehorn to prise her out of it :lol2: If he has a liking for mud, these wash easily, I just take a hose and a bucket of soapy water for the really grotty bits. It still looks as good as it did on day one. Definitely an investment though, you might need to get him a paper round so he can pay for it :shades:
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Just remember on the name choice, you will be yelling it at the top of your voice for years :lol2:
Lol 🤣
Most if not every cocker I see on a shoot seem to be called "get ere ya little *****"
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Hello all,
So he’s home and I must say I’m knackered! I’ve called him Oran (Gaelic for song). He’s very smelly due to kettle living but I thought best to attempt A wash tomorrow as he’s very excited. But yes we both stink and I have been peed on. Had quite a few accidents in the house but managed to catch a few. I take him outside straight away even if he does have an accident and then praise when he does make it outside.
We’ve been on two walks, he’s been great a little nervous walks behind me on the lead (unexpected!) and met a few big dogs and seemed happy and confident.
I’ve been training sit..which he got in 2 seconds. He’s very keen on jumping up and on everything so that needs to be the next thing. One thing I did not expect was the humping...he didn’t do it at first but then began quite intently on it. When he does it I get up and walk away...not making a fuss but it means I can’t actually spend anytime sitting down! Any tips on this? Hopefully overexcited and a phase.
He hasn’t settled unless totally asleep and then he’s 0 to 100 the second he wakes up. Hopefully he’ll be ok tonight...really I just need a shower! 😅😅
Any tips on the humping would be much appreciated! X
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Great news that he's home. Sorry no experience on the humping. I imagine some of the peeing might be excitement and the new environment. Fingers crossed on that one. Hope you will get some sleep tonight. Look forward to hearing more news on Oran in the coming days.
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I am sure he will settle in given time. Our now 6yr old bitch occasionally humps my wife's leg (never mine for some reason) seems to only be when she is tired.... probably no help to you but there you go 🙄
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Excitement wees, and lots of nervous energy, it has been a big day for him. It will take a bit for him to relax. I think if he has always been used to going out with other dogs then he is probably not that confident on his own with a new person, hence walking behind you. A lot of this is just time and you both getting to know each other. Humping can be caused by excitement too, Daisy sometimes does it still and she is a middle aged girlie now. I can sympathise with the kennel smell, Daisy had been in rescue kennels and was very fragrant, couldn't wait to get her bathed, but held of for a day or two. Not something to worry about just now, but what is he fed on, some foods can make them more hyper than other. Most importantly, welcome to your new life Oran.
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Hi again all,
Thanks again for your replies and advice. My little nightly update - I’ve been very proud of him today. He’s only had one accident inside. He slept till 8am in his crate, it’s at the end of my bed for now, he went in tonight no problems...no crying or barking, there was a little last night. The boy is a quick learner!
He met my nephew and was bettered behaved than him! He’s lovely to everyone. During the day he absolutely had hyper moments and I need to work on stopping him jumping on every surface and of course the humping. But he settled and napped throughout the day. I am so tired tho! Hopefully we’ll keep settling in well. So far he’s a very good dog.
He’s fed on raw mince meat and a raw egg and then dry food in the evening that I was given from the kennels. I hadn’t expected the mince and egg combo! He is actually quite thin, can feel his rips. He’s been getting a lot of treats tho.....he absolutely loves them!
I showered him and he still smells but what can you do eh 🤷🏼♀️. I’ll just trying to clean him till one day he smells better.
Night all, thanks again for the input xx
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:luv: Well that all sounds pretty good for day two. The fact that he slept until 8.00 am is Amazing. Note the time, my girl woke me at 5.00 am this morning. It's all a matter of time, give him a couple of weeks and you will feel like he has been with you forever. Others will advise more on the food aspect. I feed Maisie on Lilly's Kitchen with about a quarter of supermarket cooked beef mince, which she loves. Lilly's Kitchen is quite expensive, but there have been some great offers during Covid, 20% off several times. It sounds as thought you pair will be bonded very very soon. Lovely to hear your update.
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Just a little post script to my earlier post, regarding Oran being so slim. My late husband used to say that Jazz, my beloved boy who I lost in 2019, was like a cigar on long legs. A perfect description really, and he remained like that until he was at least two years old. So, don't worry, his energy levels will keep him slim and you are supposed to be able to feel their ribs, not see them obviously, and the dog should have a visible waist. Good Luck.
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Well that is a great start, fantastic. He is still just a baby, so to have coped so well with such a big change is fantastic. As or skinny, yes, he will be a bit of a whippet at this age, they do tend to be lean, more so than the show cocker. As for food, I feed Daisy RAW, it really suits her, tried a few other options with her and she has settled on Honey's Real Dog Food. I bought a small chest freezer so I can order a few months worth at a time. Lots of options out there, and when you both get settled, you will probably want to have a rethink. For now, fantastic news, and a few baths/showers will soon have the kennel smell away.
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So pleased to hear Oran (LOVE the name by the way)‘s doing so well, he sounds brilliant! I wouldn‘t worry too much about him being a bit on the thinner side, better than being overweight and as long as he‘s healthy and full of beans then its obviously not a problem.
Another raw feeder here by the way - we started when Humph‘s was around 7 months and have never looked back.
Looking forward to some pictures at some point! :lol2:
:luv:
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Morning all,
Thanks for advice re food. I'm just sticking with the current plan but when he's six months in two weeks will look into a different plan. He has a very long coat so I can't actually see the ribs, I can just feel them. Good to know that is normal.
He continues to be more and more of a delight. I'm actually dreading him changing when he hits the teenage phase, he has such a beautiful puppy like nature, excited but also quite gentle and really looks to me for reassurance when he's a bit worried. I would be happy if he never changed but of course he will.
Toilet training is still a bit hit and miss. Thank god I don't have carpets. I'm taking him on two maybe 20 mins walks at the moment, he just trots behind me, I wonder if he needs a bit more of a run?
He is very bad for jumping on every surface and trying to eat my food...I say no and push him off or down but wondering if anyone has any advice for the best strategy on that?
I'm trying to train him to his name at the moment, to be honest he's never that far away from me for it to work well! Oh another thing, I've only left him alone in his crate for 10 mins while popping to the shops and he cried the place down! My poor neighbours. He's fine if not in his crate and I'm in a different room. I do really need to get him used to spending a little amount of time on his own. Any tips? I'm wondering if it's the crate that he particularly hates, might experiment with popping out later without him in, I'd really love for him not to destroy my sofa though!
Thanks again all! xxx
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You lucky, lucky lady having a dog from Andy! He’s one of the leading lights in ensuring our breed continues to the standard they should be.... your boy will be a delight and is part trained as you know!
My best advice is to get to a gun dog trainer. Even with no intent to work him, they will give you exercises and games to play with him that will tire him out far more than a walk. This will help with him being over energetic - your walks sound ideal though you really want him to “work” for you by hunting ground close to you. The last thing you want to do now is to encourage him to go too far from you (more than 15 feet) - he’s still a pup and that teenage phase may see him taking the mickey and free hunting/running - another reason to go to training classes early rather than too late!
Enjoy your boy, Oran is a great name for a wcs :D
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Well, if Pearly is impressed, you know you have cracked it! That is a very valid point about gundog training, the only one I know of is Blackmuir Dogs and he is Paisley/Renfrew direction, so way out of your area. Maybe ask the breeder, it's the kind of thing where they know each other, if that makes sense. When you put him in his crate do you always close the door? I am rubbish at training, so feel free to ignore, this is just what I did. Initially I fed Daisy in her crate, had a cue word (inside) and treated her for going in. It was anything that made it a happy and safe space for her .Oran has left everything he has known in his wee life so far he is bound to be a bit unsure as yet. How about going out and leaving him in the sitting room, but just for 5 mins. No fuss leaving and no fuss coming back. Then you can see how that goes. Or if you could maybe leave him in the kitchen/utility where he can do less damage. Move everything of the worktop though as he sounds like a bit of kangaroo :lol2: Anyway, short bursts of being alone and build it up.
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Agree with ejp, its very early days yet and its a very different environment for him too. Leaving and coming back should just be as natural as you can make it, so the less comment and fuss you can make the better. I finally resorted to giving Humphrey the free run of the kitchen but put the chairs on top of the table (my neighbour asked if I was „still shut“ for a coffee! :lol2:) after he pinched my tablets off the top shelf!
You‘ll get there, he sounds like a little star, and there‘s always COL to turn to in the meantime! :luv:
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Thanks Pearly & ejp for your advice re a gun dog trainer, I would love to do that with him. I can’t wait until he’s a bit older and we can explore lots of things together. I’ve been doing a lot of hill walking so I’ll be taking him up some Munro’s when he’s old enough (and the weather is better). He won’t even go outside for a pee, it’s so wild!
So I’ve been leaving the room for walk calls and he’s been brilliant, fast asleep on the sofa when I come back. He’s not currently a chewer so if he’s happier like that I don’t mind letting him not be in the crate.
I have to say he’s a very calm puppy in general. He’s asleep right now beside me. He gets very excited when he sees people and then settles right down. I was preparing for so much more hyper and to be honest I’m delighted with him. I’m sure he’ll change a bit but I hope his general temperament stays like this. I’m so happy to have him.
Have a lovely weekend all xx
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Also folks, sorry if this is obvious but how do I post pics?? Would love you to see him, he’s very fluffy. 😄
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He is doing so well, and just popping out for a short time is perfect. He seems pretty content for only being there few days. Gosh, ages since I posted a photo. You will need photobucket or flickr kind of thing, and you can link it from there. Some clever person (not me) will tell you how. Would love it if you can suss it out.
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Just wondering how Oran is progressing, nearly two weeks down the line. Would be lovely to have an update.
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Good shout, would love a little update too. :D
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Hello!
I was thinking I might do a little update, thanks for checking in guys! So it’s been a busy 2.5 weeks and I have to say I am quite tired! Mainly due to early rising! Oran likes to wake up at 5am. I think we’re cracking it now as he’s out in the hall and been waking up at a normal time now he’s not in the room so that’s good! Getting there with toilet training finally tho many accidents! I’ve figured out he needs out every two hours so none last few days.
He’s definitely developed more energy and naughty puppy tendencies. Last week I took him to the vets and he has an ear infection but treating it now. He absolutely food obsessed but is starting to learn that he can’t try and wrestle mine out of my hands!!
Training is going well. Recall good and learning down and leave it at the moment going to a lot of work with him Over the holiday.
One question I have for you all is on food...the vet was not impressed by his diet of mincemeat and egg in the morning plus dry food in the evening. I’ve sort of been giving less meat and more dry and put him on Lillie’s kitchen but unsure on quantity, he probably gets 200gm in the evening. It’s so expensive!!!
Other than that, zoomies! Lots of them. But I’m letting him burn the energy off the garden.
Apart from that he’s completely loveable and fun tho we’ve definitely had more trying moments over the last week though starting to settle again. He’s a good egg.
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I feed Maisie on Lilly's Kitchen, and YES it is expensive. If you buy online direct they will email you when there is an offer on. I have stocked up quite a lot in the last couple of months, they have had 20% off on several occasions. I can only assume, like many businesses at the moment, times are hard. If I recall, you do normally get an email indicating when the delivery will arrive. I know that can be a problem for anyone out at work. Definitely one to keep an eye on. Have a lovely Christmas with Oran.
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Izzy, my 8 year old W.C.S. does very well on Millies Wolfheart dry food. There are different types and they have an advice line you can phone to discuss what might suit your dog. It costs about £45 for a 12kg. bag. I order it over the phone and delivery has always been very reliable.
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https://www.justdogsshop.co.uk/product-category/food-treats/all-dog-food/
Nice wee independent owned pet shop your side of the country. They carry Eden semi moist food which is good quality, they have a few brands, so maybe worth a look. Skinners is another option you might want to look at. Lily's Kitchen is worth signing up to as they have offers on fairly often and if you have space you can stock up when they do a 20% off deal. Depends what works for both of you.
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Our Gemma did very well on skinners field and trial. Very reasonable and no vat
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Had forgotten about Skinners, another good option.
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Merry Christmas all. Hope everyone had a lovely day!
Thank you for all the helpful food suggestions, very helpful. I’ve taken the plunge and just bought a massive bag of Lilly’s kitchen which he does loves.
He’s been an absolute hit with my family. He really is a true gem.
Wishing everyone a better 2021!! Xx
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Merry Christmas to you and Oran :D
Glad you to hear how well he is settling in and that the family have all taken to him too.
Every good wish for 2021.