Author Topic: Advice on potential ‘failed’ gundog puppy - 6 months  (Read 4203 times)

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Offline fionamarymac

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Advice on potential ‘failed’ gundog puppy - 6 months
« on: November 26, 2020, 09:39:48 AM »
Hello all,

My first time posting, lovely to be apart of this forum. I wondered if you could ask from some advise on a WCS 6 months puppy I am very interested in bringing into my home. So he’s available from a very a gun dog kennel in the south of Scotland (seems to be a very reputable place from the research I’ve done - Nithvalley Gundogs). He has not made the cut to be part of the gundog team there as apparently he’s an indifferent retriever so they are happy for him to go to a pet home. Wondering in general what people’s thoughts are on pups who were intended to work but didn’t quite have the feel for it? I’m looking very good temperament which brings me to another question, can this be understood quite well at the age of 6 months? I’ve not had a puppy since I was young.

I’m going to spend time with him on Saturday and meet some of the other family. Another slight concern I had was his COI certificate which is 16.6% which I understand while high is relatively normal for wcs, what’s everyone’s thoughts? Parents are both health tested and he had his initial tests when born. 

I feel confident in where he’s coming from but would be good to hear general thoughts. About me - I am 35, active, have a garden, live by the forth in Edinburgh with many walks near by. Have walked cockers and stockers and have a feel for the breed. Want a dog to be a house companion but also train up (I have time on my hands to do this), and get me out doing classes with him and walks of course. Also, I work from home...when I do have to be away for any reason he will go to my brother (with 3 year old) or my mother. Also should add I grew up with labs and collies so have experience with active working dogs.

Oh one other thing, he’s been in a kennel on his own up till now so house training will all be new. As will life in a city. He will though have been well socialised with people and dogs by this point.

So any advice on what to look for and ask when I visit him would be massively appreciated by you good people!

Thanks,

Fiona

Offline MIN

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Re: Advice on potential ‘failed’ gundog puppy - 6 months
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2020, 07:35:55 PM »
My wcs is from working stock. She will flush game but not keen on retrieve. She is also a couch potato and sleeps in bed with us. So no worries about a failed worker. Anyway there is probably just one part it failed. A worker can retrieve, can flush, do scent work etc. So just find, by trial and error what it excels at and go for that if you want. The main thing is to mentally simulate. That could just be throwing a ball for it to find and bring back. It is you their human who they live for and to please.  You sound as though you already have a good life planned and also the dog is still young enough to remould. Go for it and may the force be with you
Run free and fly high my beautiful Gemma
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Offline ejp

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Re: Advice on potential ‘failed’ gundog puppy - 6 months
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2020, 09:05:51 PM »
I think you have a great set up, and have obviously given this a lot of thought.  He is still young and will soon learn the rules of toilet training, he is possibly clean in his kennel.  As for personality, cockers are the best thing since sliced bread, and we are none of us impartial on this forum!  :005:  Please keep us posted on how it all goes, would love to hear.

Offline fionamarymac

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Re: Advice on potential ‘failed’ gundog puppy - 6 months
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2020, 11:26:48 PM »
Thanks to both of you for your empowering words. It’s such a minefield and I want to ensure I’ve done all that I can to make the right decision on the right pup, but of course there is always risk involved! I’m really looking at this as a project to work on with the puppy and it’s a good way to keep me occupied too....life has been very quiet of late so I’m ready for a shake up which I’m sure I’ll get if all works out with this guy.

I’ll let you know how I get on. Thanks again...nice to have some encouragement...the Internet can be a scary place when it comes to researching wcs!

Offline AndyB

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Re: Advice on potential ‘failed’ gundog puppy - 6 months
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2020, 05:04:55 AM »
Go for it.  I have had cockers for almost 40 years and they are the most wonderful dogs.  Admittedly mine have all been show cockers.  I have recently adopted a 2 year old blue roan bitch who is deaf.  I felt a little daunted at first, but I met Maisie 3 times before she came to live with me.  It was all taken very gradually, I met her at the rescue home, then she came to me for the day and finally overnight.  She was very anxious at first, and still is to an extent with visitors, but with me she is a typical Velcro   cocker.  When she is on the sofa with me at night and creeps up so her head is on my chest, she looks into my eyes as if saying
thank you for rescuing me, I do love You, she just melts me.   I had never rescued a dog before, always had puppies from a breeder.  Maisie had also lived in a kennel situation for a number of months and house training has taken a little while but she is fine now.  You will know when you meet the dog.  If you like the dog when you meet him you will never regret having a cocker, they are adorable.  You seem to have thought this out very thoroughly and sensibly so all that remains is to go and meet him.  Keep us posted please.

Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: Advice on potential ‘failed’ gundog puppy - 6 months
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2020, 07:10:34 AM »
Hi and welcome! I didn‘t reply straight away as Humphrey is my first cocker and as he‘s show I wasn‘t sure if my opinion was worth much weight  ;). But for what its worth, - I‘ve always had dogs and they‘ve all been great companions but if you‘re looking for a dog who‘s happy doing almost anything as long as its with you, who‘s eager to learn and is up for anything and who appears to radiate sunshine 24/7 then a cocker, show or worker, will fit the bill. All dogs can have their quirks, they‘re no different to people in that respect but with a positive attitude and a willingness to put a bit of time into training, you can usually iron out or adapt to any little „problems“. From what you‘ve said, if the initial viewing goes well and you‘re happy with his health, I‘d also say Go for it.
You‘ll get lots of support from all the wonderful people on here, whatever the issue there‘s always someone who can help. Look forward to hearing how it goes!

Offline MIN

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Re: Advice on potential ‘failed’ gundog puppy - 6 months
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2020, 12:05:24 PM »
"expecting a shake up".  Expect a force 5 hurricane, because that's what's coming. Brace yourself.  :luv: :luv:
Run free and fly high my beautiful Gemma
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Offline Emilyoliver

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Re: Advice on potential ‘failed’ gundog puppy - 6 months
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2020, 12:33:15 PM »
Hi,  go for it.  Nithvalley are very well known in the trialling world, and it's likely this young dog hasn't made the 'cut' for trialling (where they need to both hunt well and retrieve).  And then many triallers mostly pick up with their dogs when not competing, so his lack of keenness to retrieve would mean he would be better to rehome.  So nothing likely inherently wrong with him as a dog.  He usually health tests his stock as well so that's good.  The COI is nothing to worry about (two of my cockers are over 25%).  COI is often high in trial bred dogs.  16% is fine (and mostly irrelevant if the parents have been health tested).  His character should be pretty well formed by now so you could tell more about it than in an 8 week old puppy.  The house training should be easy enough - just do it as you would for a young puppy.  he knows no different i.e. not learned bad habits house training wise as not been inside.  So i'd say, go and see him (bet he has a great pedigree), see if you like him, and if you do - bring him home  :luv:  and don't forget to keep us posted!
Michelle, Emily and Ollie

Offline fionamarymac

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Re: Advice on potential ‘failed’ gundog puppy - 6 months
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2020, 05:25:06 PM »
Thanks again all for the advice and support, really appreciate it.

Emilyoliver, thanks for reassurance on the COI......understanding this is all so very new to me and quite strange! He does have good pedigree which actually is a bit of a concern as he is from lines all bred for field trailing (and very successful at it!) but hopefully as they've decided he's not right for that he will make a good dog for the house and adventures outside.

Anyway, I will find out what he's like tomorrow and update. Happy Friday all!

Offline ejp

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Re: Advice on potential ‘failed’ gundog puppy - 6 months
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2020, 09:03:02 PM »
Cockers are just awesome dogs, you will have the best fun and your life will never be the same in so many good ways.  I cannot wait until you get back to us with an update, very excited for you and your new family member.  Enjoy the day.

Offline AndyB

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Re: Advice on potential ‘failed’ gundog puppy - 6 months
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2020, 06:29:06 AM »
ejp is bang on.   :luv:  He will transform your life, he will be your loving companion, your best friend and will make you laugh every day.  He will bring enormous joy to you.  Cockers are just wonderful, amazing dogs.

Offline fionamarymac

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Re: Advice on potential ‘failed’ gundog puppy - 6 months
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2020, 06:03:44 PM »
Hello all,

So I went to visit and of course he was beautiful! He was very friendly and happy but calmed right down when I was chatting. I met his mum and watched her do some work with some homing pigeons and a cap gun, she was incredible! Very calm also and extremely focused on her job! Met his grandad too, the whole family!

So he will be coming to live with me next week and so now I must quickly prepare! I will I think let him settle and then start some gentle training, he already knows a few things. One question I have for you all, how would I best toilet train him? I assume not as a very young people as he'll have more control....I'm assuming there will be some accidents, luckily I have wooden floors! Would I need puppy pads for training for is he too old for that?

Also, I'm struggling to know what to buy him to sleep on, just a small bed for his create?

Thanks again all! Very excited, he is a black beauty! He needs a good wash though, kennel life is not fresh!

Offline ejp

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Re: Advice on potential ‘failed’ gundog puppy - 6 months
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2020, 06:53:45 PM »
Thank you for the update, I have been thinking about how it was all going today.  Sounds like you have had a brilliant day.  I'm a little bit jealous, ok, I am a lot jealous!   :005:  Toilet training an ex puppy farm breeding dog around 3/4 years old, we took the following approach.  Pro actively take him out to the garden, when he does a wee or poo, lots of praise.  He won't know where he supposed to 'go' and where the door is to get out, so it is up to you to show him all that.  Anytime he does it outside whether on walks or in the garden, lots of praise.  If he has an accident, no fuss, just clean up.  A solution that has biological washing powder/liquid is best as it breaks down the enzymes and does a better job of removing smells so he is less likely to return to the same spot.  So first thing in the morning, regularly through the day after food and naps.  As for a bed, if you have a crate, cover it so the back and sides are enclosed, and just let that be his safe place.  We never shut the crate door, but Daisy is older, she goes in and out at will.  Again, we never reach in and disturb her, if we want her to come out, we call her.  She loves a snooze in there, and snores loudly! The first few weeks we had her, I fed her in there so she knew it was her spot.  If you get some vet bed it is snuggly, washes and dries really easily.  That way you are not spending a fortune on beds until you get an idea of how he will be.  You can get it on ebay at a decent price.  I predict you will have beds all over the house, they do like their comforts  :luv:

Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: Advice on potential ‘failed’ gundog puppy - 6 months
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2020, 07:03:13 PM »
 :banana: :banana: Super!! He sounds perfect!!
I think others on here will probably have better advice on house training a young dog, although I imagine it won‘t be all that different to training a puppy really. I‘d take him out regularly at first and praise and treat everytime he does anything.
If you’re using a crate to start with, I‘d think an old blanket, maybe with an old towel on the top would do until you’re confident he‘s latched on to toilet training, you can get a proper bed later.
I didn‘t use either pads or newspaper when Humphrey was a puppy, I just took him out every couple of hours, after meals, after his naps, and after playing and he was fine, he picked it up pretty quickly. I‘d imagine with yours, as he‘d older and, as you say, has control he should be ok once he‘s settled in.
Looking forward to hearing more, have you decided on a name?
 :D

Offline ips

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Re: Advice on potential ‘failed’ gundog puppy - 6 months
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2020, 08:25:06 PM »
First off the term "failed" means that the current trainer does not see FT potential which could be for s very minor issue that most of us wouldn't see or if we did may not be bothered about but FT breeders / trainers have many dogs to bring on and can afford to move on dogs for minor issues (in there eyes).
I got Eze at 6 months the bloke I got her from had only just started to introduce her to the dummy and to hunting so in reality she was a blank canvas. She was kenneled and was no problem to house train in fact we only had one or two accidents before she got the message. You will have a fun journey but be under no illusions that a  FT bred WC will demand a lot of mental stimulation, you will never tire him/her out with free running alone, plus his/her hunt, chase, kill, retrieve drive will be high so you will need to train some kind of break or stop to flush if you want to go off lead countryside walkies.......enjoy your journey 👍
Muddling along in the hope that one day it all makes sense.