CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Health => Topic started by: Helen on August 03, 2012, 09:54:53 AM
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Worth a few minutes to read I believe ;)
http://www.petparentsactiongroup.org/vets-on-vaccines.html (http://www.petparentsactiongroup.org/vets-on-vaccines.html)
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That's definitely worth a read xx
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The sooner these sentiments are echoed by all vets the better, in my opinion. This quote says it all! (very interesting reading).
“I totally embrace my profession and always have, but the pharmaceutical industry has considerable influence on it; there is a huge marketing effort here – that’s their job. We are the ones that need to ‘sift’ this information appropriately. We, the consumer professionals, have allowed this influence to go unchecked. It’s time for senior members of our profession to step up and place controls on the commercial influence upon relatively naive veterinary students and new graduates. This influence is even stronger in the pet food and supplements industry. The government also needs to be more proactive and keep up to date.”
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Thanks for that Helen, very interesting reading :shades:. Our first Cocker i only had vaccinated for the first couple of years, then i heard of a local dog dying prematurely due to vaccintations. so after that Donald our boy never had another vaccintation and lived to he was nearly 16 ;)
Stephanie, George and Hamish xxx
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I read something in one of the Homeopathic books the other day that if you do have to vaccinate, give 30c Thuja within 24 hours to offset the possible side effects
Will read the article in full later
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Thanks Helen ;-)
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It's pretty much what you have always said, isn't it, Helen.
Pity is we are at the mercy of boarding kennels and the like who just won't budge on their demand for annual vaccinations.
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Pity is we are at the mercy of boarding kennels and the like who just won't budge on their demand for annual vaccinations.
isn't it just :'(
I also read something about some of the 'modern' diseases like Parvo this morning. The person claimed that it was a disease 'concocted' in labs which I have also read elsewhere as well in the past. Very scary if indeed that is the case. I wish there was the money out there to really research and take on the big drug companies but that really is wishful thinking :-\
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It's pretty much what you have always said, isn't it, Helen.
Pity is we are at the mercy of boarding kennels and the like who just won't budge on their demand for annual vaccinations.
Too true.
Me and OH were discussing it only yesterday as Mika is due hers. I'd let it lapse but then they insist on being done twice the next time.
When I worked at a vets we often had drugs reps in and all that was discussed was targets, targets, targets - never mind whether the actual animal needed them or not >:( I realise they're a business but pushing uneccessary treatments is unethical.
Thanks for posting the link Helen I'll have a good read later when I get a few mins.
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As you know we've just got Bumble, he was just 8 weeks when we got him and his breeder had the first vaccination done, her vet used Canigen vaccine. I phoned 8 vets in Bristol, all who refused to do just the one injection, they all told me I had to do the full course again as they used Nobivac. I told them I wasn't going to have him over vaccinated and contacted Virbac, this was their reply:-
From: chris.taylor@virbac.co.uk
Date: 03/08/2012 13:50:33
To: shirrmontana@blueyonder.co.uk
Subject: Fw: Vaccine query
Hi Sharon
Help is at hand!
I can hereby guarantee absolutely that Canigen dog vaccine is exactly the same as Nobivac - just a different label. If you have any trouble in this regard please ask your consulting vet to contact us at 01359 243243.
Best regards
Chris Taylor BVSc MRCVS
Technical Director, Virbac Limited
Tel: 01359 243 243
Fax: 01359 243 200
This communication is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). Please note that any distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information contained therein is strictly prohibited unless otherwise stated. If you received this communication in error, please notify the sender by e-mail or by telephone and then delete the e-mail. Virbac Limited takes steps to prevent computer viruses from being transmitted via e-mail: however you are strongly advised to undertake anti-virus checks prior to accessing any attachments.
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As you know we've just got Bumble, he was just 8 weeks when we got him and his breeder had the first vaccination done, her vet used Canigen vaccine. I phoned 8 vets in Bristol, all who refused to do just the one injection, they all told me I had to do the full course again as they used Nobivac. I told them I wasn't going to have him over vaccinated and contacted Virbac, this was their reply:-
From: chris.taylor@virbac.co.uk
Date: 03/08/2012 13:50:33
To: shirrmontana@blueyonder.co.uk
Subject: Fw: Vaccine query
That's shocking. Really hope your vet plays ball.
Hi Sharon
Help is at hand!
I can hereby guarantee absolutely that Canigen dog vaccine is exactly the same as Nobivac - just a different label. If you have any trouble in this regard please ask your consulting vet to contact us at 01359 243243.
Best regards
Chris Taylor BVSc MRCVS
Technical Director, Virbac Limited
Tel: 01359 243 243
Fax: 01359 243 200
This communication is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). Please note that any distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information contained therein is strictly prohibited unless otherwise stated. If you received this communication in error, please notify the sender by e-mail or by telephone and then delete the e-mail. Virbac Limited takes steps to prevent computer viruses from being transmitted via e-mail: however you are strongly advised to undertake anti-virus checks prior to accessing any attachments.
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Hmm... Interesting reading and goes with our thinking that Odie's Addison's Disease was actually caused by his yearly booster as he fell ill less than 2 weeks after his booster..... Of course our vets would never agree with this :-\
We too are at the mercy of annual boosters and kennels BUT when Odie's 2013 booster is due, I will need to ask our vet if it's actually safe to give him it, in light of his illness. Will be interesting to see if we find a way around not giving him the yearly booster and using kennels.
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Pity is we are at the mercy of boarding kennels and the like who just won't budge on their demand for annual vaccinations.
isn't it just :'(
I also read something about some of the 'modern' diseases like Parvo this morning. The person claimed that it was a disease 'concocted' in labs which I have also read elsewhere as well in the past. Very scary if indeed that is the case. I wish there was the money out there to really research and take on the big drug companies but that really is wishful thinking :-\
mind you humans can get parvo as one of our four paws volunteers has had the human version recently
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:banana: YEAH at long last they are speaking out about what training they actually got on vaccinations, by the sound of it VERY LITTLE >:D
'Until we get the owners to question vets nothing will change'
We, as owners need to get the message out to question the vets on this
'When my boss went out of town for two weeks, I took it upon myself to start checking titres on those dogs families who would listen - every single one came back 'protected'' - vet wouldn't listen so this vet handed in her notice
Just goes to show that our pets are better off being titre tested
Helen that is fantastic - thanks so much for sharing - I will be sharing this article with as many animal owners who are willing to listen / read ;)
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These vets are onto a good thing me thinks and have had it their own way in this matter far too long. I usually have Smudge vaccinated every 15 months - as one year when I could not get it done at the time it was due, I phoned the receptionist who told me 'oh don't worry, long as they have had one booster (after the initial puppy course) they were ok to go for 3 months after the yearly date. ....and so that is what I do.
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Can I ask if you have kids have you gave them the MMR jab?? When you go on Caribbean hols do you have your holiday jabs?
I would be very shocked if you found a kennels that take dogs that are not vacc, one other question have any of you seen dogs dying of the illnesses that the vacc's help to protect you dog? Its a shame you cannot go and work for a week in a vets and see what goes on behind closed doors and see how much treatment is involved keeping peoples loved animals alive when they have picked up one of the illnesses.
Yes your dog can still get everything but its not half as bad if you dog is vacc's if everyone vacc there animals maybe the number of outbreaks would go down.
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Can I ask if you have kids have you gave them the MMR jab?? When you go on Caribbean hols do you have your holiday jabs?
I would be very shocked if you found a kennels that take dogs that are not vacc, one other question have any of you seen dogs dying of the illnesses that the vacc's help to protect you dog? Its a shame you cannot go and work for a week in a vets and see what goes on behind closed doors and see how much treatment is involved keeping peoples loved animals alive when they have picked up one of the illnesses.
Yes your dog can still get everything but its not half as bad if you dog is vacc's if everyone vacc there animals maybe the number of outbreaks would go down.
The question of whether it is right to vaccinate isn't what is being questioned - its the over-vaccination that is being discussed here. Repeatedly pumping drugs into your dog when they are already adequately protected cannot be right. It is not in the financial interests of the veterinary profession to properly record, research and analyze those instances of problems following booster vaccinations - that is not to say it shouldn't be done! It should be - but won't be until enough people question the "routine" approach taken by the vets.
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Can I ask if you have kids have you gave them the MMR jab?? When you go on Caribbean hols do you have your holiday jabs?
I would be very shocked if you found a kennels that take dogs that are not vacc, one other question have any of you seen dogs dying of the illnesses that the vacc's help to protect you dog? Its a shame you cannot go and work for a week in a vets and see what goes on behind closed doors and see how much treatment is involved keeping peoples loved animals alive when they have picked up one of the illnesses.
Yes your dog can still get everything but its not half as bad if you dog is vacc's if everyone vacc there animals maybe the number of outbreaks would go down.
The question of whether it is right to vaccinate isn't what is being questioned - its the over-vaccination that is being discussed here. Repeatedly pumping drugs into your dog when they are already adequately protected cannot be right. It is not in the financial interests of the veterinary profession to properly record, research and analyze those instances of problems following booster vaccinations - that is not to say it shouldn't be done! It should be - but won't be until enough people question the "routine" approach taken by the vets.
Well put Maggie R
I would also like to point out that if Vets titre tested instead of pumping dogs with the vaccines then they would see that the dogs are already 'Protected' and don't need yet another booster - Just like the MMR fo rchildren are you boosting them every year or just the once as once is enough - SEE they are being vaccinated but they are NOT being over vaccinated
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Thanks for posting that Helen it is definitely a very interesting read.
It's an issue i'm beginning to think about more often, as I'm assuming the vets will be in touch regarding boosters in a few months time. The more I read into it, the more anxious it makes me.
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very good read :blink: thankyou
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Interesting. I am the same as one of the other posters, I wait until the day before 15 months is up before I go to the vets for the girls vaccinations. I do believe that vaccines are a trigger for things such as AIHA but there are other triggers which we need to identify too. I know someone who lost a dog to IMTP having never had a vaccination.
I think also that blame cannot be laid at the feet of the boarding kennels as they are controlled by the individual local authorities. I know a local kennels who would happily accept dogs being treated with homeopathic nosodes but are stopped by the local council from doing so.
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As you know we've just got Bumble, he was just 8 weeks when we got him and his breeder had the first vaccination done, her vet used Canigen vaccine. I phoned 8 vets in Bristol, all who refused to do just the one injection, they all told me I had to do the full course again as they used Nobivac. I told them I wasn't going to have him over vaccinated and contacted Virbac, this was their reply:-
From: chris.taylor@virbac.co.uk
Date: 03/08/2012 13:50:33
To: shirrmontana@blueyonder.co.uk
Subject: Fw: Vaccine query
Hi Sharon
Help is at hand!
I can hereby guarantee absolutely that Canigen dog vaccine is exactly the same as Nobivac - just a different label. If you have any trouble in this regard please ask your consulting vet to contact us at 01359 243243.
Best regards
Chris Taylor BVSc MRCVS
Technical Director, Virbac Limited
Tel: 01359 243 243
Fax: 01359 243 200
This communication is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). Please note that any distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information contained therein is strictly prohibited unless otherwise stated. If you received this communication in error, please notify the sender by e-mail or by telephone and then delete the e-mail. Virbac Limited takes steps to prevent computer viruses from being transmitted via e-mail: however you are strongly advised to undertake anti-virus checks prior to accessing any attachments.
Same thing happened with Alfie his breeder had his first vaccine done and vet said we needed to get the first done again (even though was the same type of vaccine!) because he could of been to young at 8 weeks for his first jag to have worked, as Alfie is our first dog we took her advice as she said it would be better to be over vaccinated than risk being under vaccinated, Its hard to believe what you should do if you dont have alot of knowledge on the subject you would like to think your vet would have your pets best interest at heart!
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you would like to think your vet would have your pets best interest at heart!
Sadly though this is not always the case. Look at the price of prescriptions from your vet if you want to buy those medicines needing it online. At present my vets charge £12.50 + vat per prescription, cheeky blighters >:( Luckily at present (pawsX'd) I have no need for Smudge - but you never know, do you.
Apologies for going slightly off topic ph34r
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i am interested in this because my sons dogs had their initial jabs and none since they are always healthy being now 10 and 7.my cats i always had jabbed every other year til they reached 10 then not at all.no repercussions from that either.when 1 died aged 11 he had cancer the other is 16 and fit as anything.i would tend to have the jabs done every other year til an animal is 10 as that has always worked for me and my animals.i have had 2 dogs before the one i have now and went by those rules.i read things by american vets saying we british pump our animals too full of vaccines.when we have our children vaccinated when they are small they dont have to keep having them year in year out all their lives.i never have my animals in kennels.my dog now had his jabs recently he is 10.i will have them done next year but probably not after that.in his previous life he more than likely never had jabs at all and is healthy for a 10 year old runs like a 3 year old!
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I am confused - are you saying that we should only get our dogs vaccinated every 15 months then...or not at all? I have just had Roxy's annual booster done yesterday but Bobby's first annual booster will be due in October - should I put it off for a couple of months?
:-\ :huh:
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Jan
It is confusing isn't it. I have done a lot of reading about annual boosters and the risk they carry. I will keep this short and I stress this is the conclusion I have personally come to, based on the information I have found. Others will have their own opinions/beliefs.
Over vaccination carries a great risk of the animal developing auto immune disease (I lost one of my cockers to it). Research seems to show it is OK to have the primary vaccinations at 8 weeks and 12 weeks of age, followed by a booster 12 months later. After that, is has been suggested that no more boosters will be needed throughout the rest of the animal's life as they will have their own immunity to the diseases. This can be confirmed by having the animal Titre Tested (a blood test which determines what antibodies the animal has against parvo, hepatitis and distemper). My own vet will Titre Test for me but at a greater expense as I am the only client asking for it, at least at the moment. If my cocker has antibodies, he won't have the vaccination. If he doesn't have antibodies, then he will.
Of course, if I go down this route and it is found that Toby has antibodies and is not vaccinated, I won't be able to kennel him or claim off his insurance for any disease he may develop which he is not vaccinated for.
It's up to the owner what they decide to do but if you can read up about it, it may help you to make any decisions. I knew nothing about the risk of over vaccination when I lost my cocker two years ago. Every dog I've ever had was religiously vaccinated yearly and it was only one that made it to double figures, the rest were relatively young when they passed away from one form of cancer or another. It was when I lost my last cocker and researched auto immune disease that I became aware of the possible dangers of over vaccination.
I hope this helps you a little.
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I am confused - are you saying that we should only get our dogs vaccinated every 15 months then...or not at all? I have just had Roxy's annual booster done yesterday but Bobby's first annual booster will be due in October - should I put it off for a couple of months?
:-\ :huh:
I wrote the comment because up to the time I was told differently by the vet's receptionist, I always thought that it was most important to have your dog vaccinated as near as possible to 12 months - I was quite amazed when I was told that he would still be covered for a further 3 months. But it did make me think that maybe they are on to a good thing with these vaccines - after all the vets themselves could recommend that dogs are vaccinated every 15 months - not 12.
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With regard to Canigen/Nobivac both my dogs were vaccinated at 8 weeks by the breeders vet who uses Nobivac. My vet uses Canigen, she looked at their card and checked the date confirmed it was OK, didn't bat an eyelid over the different manufacturers.
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Neon
Thank you so much for that explanation and I totally understand that those are your own thoughts. My dogs don't go to kennels at all as someone in the family is always around to look after them so we are fortunate. So, I am not getting them vaccinated because I have to for a kennel, I was doing it because I thought I was protecting my dogs. I will go ahead and get Bobby's vaccination done as it will be his 12 month one but I am very tempted to go down the titre testing route in the future. Do you mind if I ask how much you pay for this...not that cost is an issue where the health of my pups is concerned.
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Neon
Thank you so much for that explanation and I totally understand that those are your own thoughts. My dogs don't go to kennels at all as someone in the family is always around to look after them so we are fortunate. So, I am not getting them vaccinated because I have to for a kennel, I was doing it because I thought I was protecting my dogs. I will go ahead and get Bobby's vaccination done as it will be his 12 month one but I am very tempted to go down the titre testing route in the future. Do you mind if I ask how much you pay for this...not that cost is an issue where the health of my pups is concerned.
Hi Jan
When you get time, have a read through this post I made a couple of months ago (it details costs quoted by my vet):
http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=94649.0
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With regard to Canigen/Nobivac both my dogs were vaccinated at 8 weeks by the breeders vet who uses Nobivac. My vet uses Canigen, she looked at their card and checked the date confirmed it was OK, didn't bat an eyelid over the different manufacturers.
I've since had replies from local vets who have again contacted Nobivac and this is the latest
We have been in contact with Nobivac the manufacture’s who supply our vaccines and have now received a reply in response to your inquiry.
They have confirmed that you can use both Nobivac and Canigen together.
We have looked into this problem before and when we contacted Nobivac we were informed that they don’t recommend mixing the vaccines
We did manage to find a vet who agreed to use their vaccine, so Bumble didn't have to start the course again.
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Does anyone know, if over vaccinating could cause lymphoma, a friend of mine has just lost her Boxer to this, he was only 6, he and his litter brother have just had their annual boosters. Understandably, she is devastated, as he went down hill so quickly, the Vet said she had never seen such an aggessive form >:D she of course is worried about her remaining boy.
RIP Bramley, gone, but not forgotten :luv: :luv:
Stephanie, George and Hamish xxx