Author Topic: Fraser with ongoing gut issues. Saga warning  (Read 3456 times)

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Offline tritonx

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Fraser with ongoing gut issues. Saga warning
« on: April 13, 2022, 09:10:14 PM »
Second warning. Only start this post if you have lots of time and a drink nearby.

Short form: Fraser may have colitis. Might be cancer of the colon. Frequent attempts to poop all day, evening and overnight with not many results. Usually a few drops of bloody mucus. Occasional soft mound of thin diameter poop, mostly overnight. I'm not getting much sleep as he asks to get outside at least twice in the small hours.  Looking for ideas to help with his situation. He's already on alternate days prednisone and an antibiotic when vet can get an order in. Fraser eats hypoallergenic food, gets a couple of tsp. per day of a stool softener and pumpkin with each meal. Also probiotic pill. So that's the summary if you look at the length of the post and decide you don't have the time. I certainly understand.

Long form.

I was looking over the last thread I wrote on Fraser's gut issue (and mouth problem) and last post was so ago the site suggested I start a new thread. The mouth issue seems to have been tonsillitis (didn't know dog's had tonsils, but why not) and resolved with antibiotic. Residue is that now Fraser won't let me look in his mouth which was a problem about two weeks ago when tried to eat some food smelling bit of plastic and got it stuck in his teeth. Visit to vet to remove. Jeez.

But the more important reason for this post is that two years after his ultrasound in Vancouver and advice from that vet to have him on Piroxicam and more roughage and local vet to put him on hypoallergenic food, his gut issues have got worse. Conclusion at that time was that the anal polyp was the probable cause for blood in stool and possible underlying colitis.  Since then it's been checked regularly and hasn't grown. But, gradually Fraser started to poop up to 5 times per walk. And then lately, strains multiple times to poop, most without result except for a few drops of bloody mucus. So, off to vet for Xray, full panel blood tests, fecal and urine tests. Xray showed a lot of gas in his gut and the rest of the results were perfect. My vet even sent the Xray to a specialist radiologist who also didn't see anything significant. So, he needed an ultrasound, but that's when I stepped into the new world of major shortage of vets. My vet contacted the Vancouver specialist clinic to get him an appointment and they were supposed to get back to me. After a week with no call, I got back to my local vet office to discover that there is such a shortage of vets in BC (Canada?) that it's almost impossible to get an appointment for specialist screening tests. After phoning around, I was able to get him into the emergency vet in Vancouver who had treated his chocolate incident of two years ago and they did an ultrasound within the week. Thanks goodness as the first vet clinic called to say they could see him for an assessment (not an actual ultrasound) in June!

Results of ultrasound showed thickening in an area of his colon that is hard to get to surgically. Questionable whether that would be advisable. Could be an effect of colitis or cancer. Further test to see whether cancer would be colonoscopy or CT scan. So, after talking it over with the specialist vet, I've decided if he has cancer, I am not going to put him through chemo and radiation at his age (he's now 13 years old). If it is cancer, then it will reveal itself in time and he'd get palliative care. If it's colitis, vet has put him on long term prednisone and an antibiotic. But, and now you're up-to-date with the current situation. Fraser is trying to poop multiple times per day, evening and overnight. He's on a stool softener, so when he finally does produce something, it's a soft coil, small diameter. The bran buds suggested by the vet for roughage two years ago weren't doing much and he also gets pumpkin. And, I'm getting very poor sleep as Fraser asks to get outside at least twice in the small hours which he never did before. He comes back to bed and falls asleep. Usually I can't as it was too long of a wake time to easily resume sleep. At a couple of weeks in, I'm exhausted from lack of sleep. Fraser's fine, he's getting his sleep, but trapped in repeated attempts to poop. In the morning, I discover little coils of soft poop all over the garden due to his night time attempts. Frustrating part is he produces very little in his daytime walks. I asked the vet if there was some way of swinging his pooping to daytime instead if overnight so I can get some sleep. And I'd like to use a natural roughage source rather than the stool softener as it's made of polyethylene glycol. Was thinking of maybe trying psyllium fibre but in my reading through the colitis threads here, saw some warnings about psyllium choking dogs. I also need to get him pooping during the day rather than overnight, but don't know how to turn that around. I can't go on with such little sleep. So that's the detailed story. As always, I'm drawing on the collective wisdom and experience on this board. I did ask my vet about slippery elm and he seemed to think it wasn't supported by any evidence, but willing to experiment as both dog and I need help that the vet can't seem to provide.

Offline phoenix

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Re: Fraser with ongoing gut issues. Saga warning
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2022, 08:20:45 AM »
You both must be shattered!
Slippery elm is a a supplement and not on vets regulated lists of what they can legally recommend. However, it is harmless and worth using for week. I used it when Bobby had a bout of haemorrhagic colitis which didn’t respond to antibiotics. It worked.
Which antibiotic have you got? Metronidazole can have side effects. Tylan is gentle. 
Low B12 can cause odd things,  one of my dogs thought night was day until she was given B12 injections. It is normally absorbed in the colon , which might be a problem for Fraser, so straight into the body avoids it. They are cheap and vets can show you how to do it easily.
Just ideas!
RIP Marti  the EPI springer age 12,  and beloved black cocker Bobby, 8 yrs old, too soon, from PLN.
Now owned by TInker, tiny hairy grey poodle/terrier rescue from Greece and Jack, local rescue,   scruffy ginger terrier mutt.

Offline tritonx

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Re: Fraser with ongoing gut issues. Saga warning
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2022, 07:21:06 PM »
Thanks, Phoenix. Ideas are exactly what I'm looking for. Fraser was put on prednisone and tylosin antibiotic by the specialist vet. My local vet so far hasn't been able to source more tylosin for continued treatment. I asked if another antibiotic could be used, but he said tylosin is the recommended one for life long treatment. (just looked it up. It's the same as Tylan.) From what I read about colitis, it always talks about diarrhoea, but he doesn't have that, just the repeated attempts to poop with straining before he went on the stool softener. Now he's constantly trying to poop and producing soft coils. At least it's not backing up inside which was a worry. I'll ask him again about slippery elm as it is mentioned on the Veterinary Hospitals site his clinic belongs to. I'll try to get some form of psyllium today to see if that helps as vet said yesterday to get more roughage into him. Fraser otherwise is quite perky for the most part, so that suggests maybe the cancer possibility is less likely than the colon thickening being due to chronic colitis.

Offline Mudmagnets

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Re: Fraser with ongoing gut issues. Saga warning
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2022, 09:29:01 AM »
Sorry to read of Fraser's gut problems. I don't know if the following will be of interest to you - or just muddy the waters, but with mention of straining and liquid hard to pass poos I thought it might help.

https://petsrpriority.com/diverticulitis-in-dogs-causes-treatments/
Remembering Smudge 23/11/2006 - 3/8/2013, and Branston 30/8/14 - 28/10/22 both now at the Bridge.

Offline tritonx

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Re: Fraser with ongoing gut issues. Saga warning
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2022, 07:59:07 PM »
Thanks, Mudmagnets. That's a scary looking picture in the article. The ultrasound doesn't show that sort of appearance in his gut, so doesn't seem to be one of the possibilities. I've actually reduced the stool softener to see if it will lessen his urge to poop so many times in the night. That did seem to help as he had a late night outing last night and didn't ask to get out until 6 this morning. He is successfully leaving piles of various sizes during his outings, so my back garden is a bit of a minefield. I do a careful cleanup patrol each morning as he leaves deposits all over the place, I guess as the spirit moves him. So, there is no current problem with output at this point, thank goodness. He's licking his back end a lot, so it's bothering him, no wonder. I'll have to see if I can get him an appointment next week to see if there is an ointment? maybe to help with that. Vet is very busy, overloaded right now, so might be a bit of a wait. We have quite a few vet clinics up here (ferry ride away from Vancouver, up the coast), but they're all having trouble keeping vets to cover office hours. One of the posts in my colitis search suggested sweet potato (the orange one) for fibre, so I might try that in addition to the pumpkin. Looks like it's going to be ongoing experimentation to find a combination that works for him and allows me some sleep.

Offline Mudmagnets

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Re: Fraser with ongoing gut issues. Saga warning
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2022, 09:19:26 PM »
Certainly sounds like you are both going through it at the moment, yeah the picture did look scary, didn't it. I do hope you can get the help Fraser needs, as you say it seems to be try and see.

Sending  :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: for you both

Remembering Smudge 23/11/2006 - 3/8/2013, and Branston 30/8/14 - 28/10/22 both now at the Bridge.

Offline tritonx

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Re: Fraser with ongoing gut issues. Saga warning
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2022, 09:36:05 PM »
Aw thanks, Mudmagnets. My old fellow is just getting old with all the things that brings with it. Me too, but he looks much better than me at our respective elder phase of life. Still a gorgeous boy.

Offline ejp

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Re: Fraser with ongoing gut issues. Saga warning
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2022, 10:25:24 PM »
It's both physically and emotionally hard work.  I think the idea of reducing the stool softener is a good one, as it will make him need to go the whole time.  I have heard of issues with phyllium husk, would veg help, or maybe he cannot tolerate it.  Sorry, I am no real help.  I had similar issues with Max, but he had a cyst on his liver which was causing stomach problems.  I hope you can get into a better night time routine pretty soon, lack of sleep is really tough.

Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: Fraser with ongoing gut issues. Saga warning
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2022, 06:55:33 AM »
Just to chip in on the phyllium husks - my vet recommended them but stressed that they should be soaked first (same goes for the slippery elm apparently although it doesn‘t always mention it on the packs I buy).
It is trial and error with bowel issues unfortunately , especially trying to get the balance right, I do sympathise, we had similar issues with Humphrey after his op last year and its exhausting and distressing so I do hope you can find something to help soon.  :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
P.s. I often feed sweet potato, as I can‘t always get pumpkin, works just as well - at least for Humphrey ;)

Offline tritonx

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Re: Fraser with ongoing gut issues. Saga warning
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2022, 07:54:28 PM »
Thanks for suggestions and support  :021: The night times are going better now. He has a late night outing though I have to wake him up for it and he goes through to about 6 a.m. which is tolerable. Still sleepy, but not so punch drunk as I was for a while. I stopped the tsp. of stool softener I was giving him in the afternoon feeding (in addition to  his morning one) ad that seemed to help with the overnight outings. I microwaved some yam (the orange kind that officially is sweet potato, but everyone calls them yams) and was feeding that to him day before yesterday. Maybe too much in addition to the pumpkin he gets with each meal. He tried all day yesterday to poop, but nothing except little drips. Had a very soft coil in the evening, so I think I need to back off the extra veggie fibre as maybe it's preventing the bulk needed to form a poopable poop. Feeling like Toad of Toad Hall after seeing his first car. I have a faint memory of being able to talk of other things. I've been reading up on psyllium and it does seem to have several benefits. If I could find a powdered form to mix into the pumpkin without sugar or other additives, might give it a try.

Offline Mudmagnets

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Re: Fraser with ongoing gut issues. Saga warning
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2022, 09:29:32 AM »
Feeling like Toad of Toad Hall after seeing his first car. I have a faint memory of being able to talk of other things

That's cos of all this 'poop poop' you are having to deal with  ;) though it sounds like things are improving, thank goodness
Remembering Smudge 23/11/2006 - 3/8/2013, and Branston 30/8/14 - 28/10/22 both now at the Bridge.

Offline Jaysmumagain

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Re: Fraser with ongoing gut issues. Saga warning
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2022, 12:20:01 PM »
Look at iherb site, I am sure you will have it in Canada as American company and we have it in UK too.
They sell NOW Foods, Psyllium Husk Powder says no additives.  Never used for Ollie as I have a probiotic powder with other additives which I use and seem to do help.

Sending best wishes Julie and Ollie.
Cocker kisses and cuddles just make my day!


You are always with me darlings Jaypup and my precious Oliver you are so missed

Offline tritonx

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Re: Fraser with ongoing gut issues. Saga warning
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2022, 07:58:42 PM »
Another two small hours wakeup and lots of little bits of poop all over the garden and one little coiled pile. I talked to the vet office this morning about using psyllium and she said they have Fortiflora probiotic with psyllium, but it's a veterinary product, so automatically more expensive. I already order a probiotic online and the receptionist mentioned that pet insurance would probably cover the Fortiflora, so that does offset the bigger cost. The costs of treatment these days for Fraser is stunning, added to the cost of his special hypoallergenic food, probiotic pill, monthly pet insurance rate etc. I was starting to add it up to see how much I spend per month and then realised it if was a human member of my family I'd never think of doing such a thing. And he's a very important member of my family, so I stopped that calculation quickly. I'm lucky that I can afford to pay even though it's hard on the budget. I was thinking this morning of people who have a sudden huge vet bill in the thousands for an accident or major surgery and couldn't afford pet insurance and don't have the wherewithal to pay thousands of dollars. What happens to those dogs and cats when owners can't afford vet care. I hesitate to think that deeply into it.

Ahh, found the iHerb site and powdered psyllium powder is much cheaper than the Fortiflora. It does have a warning about taking enough water with it to prevent choking which is a bit worrying though I already float Fraser dry food in water with pumpkin on top and he slurps that up readily. I'll have to look further into it to see if they deliver to my area.

Thanks, Jaysmumagain for the suggestion,

Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: Fraser with ongoing gut issues. Saga warning
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2022, 09:39:37 PM »
Feeling like Toad of Toad Hall after seeing his first car. I have a faint memory of being able to talk of other things

That's cos of all this 'poop poop' you are having to deal with  ;) though it sounds like things are improving, thank goodness

 :lol: :lol: :lol:


Offline Jaysmumagain

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Re: Fraser with ongoing gut issues. Saga warning
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2022, 08:29:14 AM »
On the UK iherb site in questions someone asks about giving to a cat -will route out the answer and post later as fingers crossed you and Fraser are sleeping.
Cocker kisses and cuddles just make my day!


You are always with me darlings Jaypup and my precious Oliver you are so missed