Author Topic: Castration  (Read 3204 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Janice-Dylan

  • Site Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 107
  • Gender: Female
Castration
« on: January 14, 2007, 12:21:45 AM »
I'd be interested to hear different opinions on castration. My vet has a cocker and she had her's castrated at 6 mths to stop him peeing constantly in the house-seemed strange to me but what do I know. She also mentioned she had thought it would calm him down as he was a little aggressive but she still can't trust him around small children. Some have said not to as he will lose his personality, others have said it made no difference at all. Is it down to the individual dog? I'm hoping I won't have to as his aggression is easing off slightly (everyone has argued that his biting is not aggression, I must video him in full swing one day, crouched down, teeth bared, snarling, lunging - hardly puppy mouthing) Things may be completely dfferent in a couple of months (he's 4 mths now) but opionions greatly appreciated.

Offline Jane S

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13205
  • Gender: Female
Re: Castration
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2007, 10:05:21 AM »
Dylan's behaviour is perfectly normal for a puppy - he's not showing aggression, he's trying to play with you as he would another puppy. If you have ever seen a litter of puppies playing, it can look like world war 3 with all the lunging and snarling but it's all play ;) Neutering him at 6 months will not stop him behaving like a puppy or calm him down - that's a fallacy I'm afraid. Castration will often help in behavioural problems triggered by male hormones (eg male on male aggression) but it's not a cure all for other behavioural problems. If you do a search for other threads on castration and neutering, you'll find lots of opinions for and against which may help with your decision.
Jane

Offline PennyB

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13830
Re: Castration
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2007, 02:00:49 PM »
Mine were both just as you describe but with guidance and patience and training they're now fantastic adults --- having a pup is a shock to the system at times and can often be not as some expect.

I've had terrier pups in the house and they were far worse in this respect than any cocker pups I've seen, and two together really do sound like they're going to kill each other. However, if any of them tried this with my two adult dogs they were eventually told off if it got out of hand, which is how they learn. They would also act like this with me too but were taught otherwise.

These things take time and your cocker isn't really going to be 'grown' up until he's about 2 years old so lots of other surprises in store until then

Wilf has been neutered but I wouldn't say its changed his character and he's still the same fantastic dog he ever was
Friends of Hailey Park
Four Paws Animal Rescue (South Wales)

Cockers are just hooligans in cute clothing!

Offline PennyB

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13830
Re: Castration
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2007, 02:08:23 PM »
Castration will often help in behavioural problems triggered by male hormones (eg male on male aggression) but it's not a cure all for other behavioural problems.

and even then an owner has to put in the work and training that's needed to accompany this
Friends of Hailey Park
Four Paws Animal Rescue (South Wales)

Cockers are just hooligans in cute clothing!

Offline Janice-Dylan

  • Site Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 107
  • Gender: Female
Re: Castration
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2007, 07:28:31 PM »
thank you all. I really don't have any problems with Dylan's hyperactivity at all. What worries me is never being able to have him around children. At the moment m little nieces and nephews are avoiding visiting because they're scared of him, which is a real shame as they love puppies at tha age. He pounces on them and goes for their faces. He gets excited, I try to pick him up to take him away and he goes absolutely berserk! Family members who know dogs have expressed worries over his behaviour, as he is like something out of the exorcist with head swirling, barking, growling, trying to bite anything and anyone etc and throwing himself against his cage and biting it when i put him in. he is even like this when i take him to the park, he's off the lead, starts running around, gets a bit excited and starts going for me. he's jumping up, lunging, biting snarling an growling. Hits bites go very deep, i now have quite a few deep gouges in my hands,arms and legs. the only thing to do is to hold him tight and stroke him and whisper to him until he calms, it's like once he reaches a certain level of excitement, he goes into a complete uncontrollable frenzy. these incidents are becoming fewer, maybe only a couple of times a day now, i'm unsure if this is down to the amount of taining we're doing or his age. i won't have him castrated unless he doesn't get any better and there's a very high chance that it will improve things.

Offline Annette

  • Site Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8883
  • Gender: Female
Re: Castration
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2007, 08:05:05 PM »
If he doesn't ever meet children while he's young, he will never learn how to behave around them will he?

If you can't persuade your neice and nephew to visit, then I think you should make a huge effort to enlist the help of some dog-savvy kids. And soon. Just so he is "socialised to children" and can learn how to behave around them.

Offline Janice-Dylan

  • Site Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 107
  • Gender: Female
Re: Castration
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2007, 08:18:36 PM »
my own youngest is 12, her and her friends are old enough to be trusted to put him out of the room if he gets out of hand.my nieces and nephews are aged 1 to 5. I can't see their parents coming over at my request " he needs to get used to wee ones,bring them over even if they're scared" At the moment, if my neighbour's 5 year old comes in, i have to keep dylan on a lead, i can't take chances for the sake of him getting used to kids, especially in the current climate.i've seen the damage he's done to me, i can't take the risk of him doing the same to a child, he would easliy have a small nose off.

Offline debbie321

  • Site Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2556
  • Gender: Female
Re: Castration
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2007, 08:26:30 PM »
I can sympathise with you ;)  The little girl next door (6 at the time) was and still is wary of dogs (thanks to her mum) >:(

I thought it would be great to let her in to play with the puppy  :005:  He was a total  >:D and not at all the cute pup that I thought he'd be  ;)  Needless to say she stayed away. 

He has however met lots of children at the park - from newborn to school age and is really good with them.  He's also recently met my friends 2 yr old grandson who stayed for a few hours and the worst he did was pinch his toys  :005:

Offline Janice-Dylan

  • Site Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 107
  • Gender: Female
Re: Castration
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2007, 08:33:48 PM »
Yes, there's something about little ones who are more at their level. They must think they're just other puppies to wrestle with and bite. Wee ones can't control them and tend to squeal and run which makes things worse. Good to know that he has a good chance of getting over this though. Meantime, I'll just keep him on the lead while they're around (if I can persuade them to come back!), that way I can still control him.

Offline Cob-Web

  • Inactive
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10276
  • Gender: Female
  • To err is human, to forgive, canine
    • Walking on Wight Blog
Re: Castration
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2007, 10:12:02 PM »
I can't see their parents coming over at my request " he needs to get used to wee ones,bring them over even if they're scared"

 :005: ph34r :005: - Lil'bit was three when we brought Molo home - she had no prior experience of dogs and was terrified of him  ph34r :005: ph34r

After she spent the first two weeks sitting on the back of the sofa when they were in the same room together, we bit the bullet and forced the issue  ph34r We taught her how to "stand like a statue" and then let Molo into the room, with one of us at the other end - with squeakies and raggies and other exciting toys  ;)

There were tears at times to start with (from all of us  ph34r) - but it really is worth persisting with if you can explain to their parents that unless he gets used to them now, and they learn how to behave around him (not running and squealing) then they will never be able to enjoy him, as neither the humans or dog will learn :D Like you, I used a lead, or house line, at first; and even once he wasn't wearing it all the time in the house, I would often put it back on if he and lil'bit were sharing the sofa, or floor, as it gives an extra element of control to the situation  ::)

His behaviour sounds perfectly normal for a 4 months old pup, and imo it's way to early to consider neutering - but I do think that a good training class can help you learn how to calm him down (there are several techniques) and begin to teach him self-control  ;)
Enrich your life with an Oldie!
Oldies Club


Offline Janice-Dylan

  • Site Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 107
  • Gender: Female
Re: Castration
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2007, 10:30:40 PM »
thanks, i was thinking about in the long term, just needed to know if the castration has ever helped anyone with an aggressive dog

Offline Cob-Web

  • Inactive
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10276
  • Gender: Female
  • To err is human, to forgive, canine
    • Walking on Wight Blog
Re: Castration
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2007, 10:33:35 PM »
thanks, i was thinking about in the long term, just needed to know if the castration has ever helped anyone with an aggressive dog

IMO, the behaviour you describe is not aggressive  ::)

Also imo -  an aggressive dog should never be neutered before being assessed by an experienced behaviourist - some forms of aggression can be made worse by neutering   :-\
Enrich your life with an Oldie!
Oldies Club


Offline Janice-Dylan

  • Site Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 107
  • Gender: Female
Re: Castration
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2007, 11:15:59 PM »
If I had a penny........

I swear if I can work out how, I'll show you Dylan in full swing (although I can't imagine holding a video camera while that is going on)I really don't want the castration, not now, later or ever, I just asked if it helped anyone in case it comes to that. I have no doubt  that there's a good chance that age and training will help Dylan outgrow this behaviour but as far as "not aggression" you'd maybe best see it first. Dylan shows all the behaviours classed as aggression in an adult dog, just because he is young doesn't give the situation any less cause for concern. I can assure you he's not mouthing, we all have the cuts and scars to prove it. I don't understand why everyone gets all uppity every time you describe a puppy as aggressive. Even if he's young he's still behaving exactly like an aggressive adult and the behaviour needs to be dealt with just the same.

Offline Jane S

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13205
  • Gender: Female
Re: Castration
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2007, 11:33:32 PM »
I don't understand why everyone gets all uppity every time you describe a puppy as aggressive. Even if he's young he's still behaving exactly like an aggressive adult and the behaviour needs to be dealt with just the same.

Nobody's getting uppity Janice - we're just trying to reassure you that Dylan is not aggressive, he's a puppy doing all the maddening things that puppies do. Of course you've got cuts and scars - puppies have horrid needle teeth which puncture our fragile human skin (you should see my hands when we've got a litter :lol:). This doesn't mean you have an aggressive puppy and you can't judge a puppy as you would an adult which you appear to be doing. Please don't take offence when people try to give you advice - we're only trying to help you. If you really are worried about Dylan's behaviour, then contact a reputable trainer/behaviourist and ask them to come and observe him. We can't see Dylan and can only go on our own experiences with bitey crocodile puppies but perhaps if you get a professional in, they can reassure you in a way we cannot.
Jane

Offline Helen

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 20025
  • Gender: Female
    • helen noakes jewellery
Re: Castration
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2007, 08:51:16 AM »
please don't take offence janice, he does sound like a completely normal over-exuberant working cocker puppy.  He is treating you as another littermate (you've seen how rough puppies play with each other) and this takes time to teach him not to mouth or bite humans. I think it's so important to socialise dylan now with children - and the suggestions given by rachel are great.


you could always have him on a houselead when children are around to monitor his behaviour.

also, what do you feed him?  some foods contribute to more 'hyper' behaviour and it can help to change foods.

Have you got a copy of 'the Perfect Puppy' by Gwen Baillie - it is a really good book to read ;) - sign up for puppy classes too, the socialisation will do dylan good, and will ease your mind about dylan's behaviour (there's always one pup in the class that appears more badly behaved than yours :005:)


I know you feel his behaviour is aggressive and that we are underestimating him, but we do understand.  I think to set your mind at ease you should contact a good behaviourist or trainer in your area.

am also sceptical about your vet - seems very odd neutering a puppy so young for marking/weeing in the house....very odd....
helen & jarvis x