Author Topic: Raisin Toxicity  (Read 6210 times)

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Offline clairep4

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Raisin Toxicity
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2006, 11:15:50 AM »
Only just seen this, Penel - what a worry for you! I hope they are all okay.

One of the builders we had in before Xmas was caught feeding Bella chocolate covered raisins! Needless to say he was told not to do so again...   :rolleyes:
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Raisin Toxicity
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2006, 12:09:28 PM »
All still ok this morning.......... still re-organising the kitchen.... the perils of tall dogs (or short ones that jump !).

Offline BigJim&Kate

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Raisin Toxicity
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2006, 01:26:31 PM »
Good to hear there alright, hopefully theres not going to be any lasting effects.

 :)
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Offline bluegirl

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Raisin Toxicity
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2006, 01:32:56 PM »
Glad to hear the dogs are fine.

Whilst I agree that there are reports of certain foods causing death in dogs I think they are anecdotal and are not typical of the general dog population. I feel it is like anaphylaxis in humans. Its not common and doesn't mean that we all avoid certain drugs or foods etc because we have heard of a case of one person dying of it.

As I have stated before I do give my dog raisins on a daily basis, it's part of her diet and she is fine and if raisins were so toxic to all dogs then mine and all the ones who have had them, just on this write up should by right be dead.

Dogs are indiviuals and each on can tolerate different levels of toxins before a food or substance become lethal. If Vets haven't heard of such a poisoning then surely this must prove how few incidents there are.

I would be interested to know how many reported cases of death by raisin poisoning there are in the UK per year.

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Offline Petra

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Raisin Toxicity
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2006, 01:43:25 PM »
Quote
Dogs are indiviuals and each on can tolerate different levels of toxins before a food or substance become lethal. If Vets haven't heard of such a poisoning then surely this must prove how few incidents there are.

I agree with the above - and I think that sometimes these things are sooo hyped up.... which is not always helpful....

Last month Dillon escaped out of the kitchen whilst my youngest was having her lunch.   As she had left the table to go to the toilet, her plate which along with her sandwich contained a large handful of raisins was left unattended on the table.   Dillon gobbled the lot (I was upstairs helping Emily on the toilet...).

I went into full blown panic mode, searching for advice on here and on any other available website - and what I read only panicked me more!!!   I then did the sensible thing (yes I know it took me a while to calm down... :huh: ) and rang the vet.   They had heard of raisin toxiticy but told me it was rare, calmed me down and adviced me just to keep an eye.   Dillon was fine, not even a runny bot!!! (Phew)

I think sometimes it helps to keep things in perspective - whilst raisins are toxic to some dogs, the vast majority are fine.   No different to peanut / fish / strawberry allergies in humans!!


Petra


Offline Annette

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Raisin Toxicity
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2006, 02:36:43 PM »
Quote
Glad to hear the dogs are fine.

Whilst I agree that there are reports of certain foods causing death in dogs I think they are anecdotal and are not typical of the general dog population. I feel it is like anaphylaxis in humans. Its not common and doesn't mean that we all avoid certain drugs or foods etc because we have heard of a case of one person dying of it.

As I have stated before I do give my dog raisins on a daily basis, it's part of her diet and she is fine and if raisins were so toxic to all dogs then mine and all the ones who have had them, just on this write up should by right be dead.

Dogs are indiviuals and each on can tolerate different levels of toxins before a food or substance become lethal. If Vets haven't heard of such a poisoning then surely this must prove how few incidents there are.

I would be interested to know how many reported cases of death by raisin poisoning there are in the UK per year.
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I, too, agree that it is good to see a healthy balance with hype and the real risks involved. (There is a difference, though, between toxicity and allergy. I would think that if a certain item is toxic to one dog, it would be toxic to all dogs??? Allergies, on the other hand are much more individualistic.)

However, in the case of some foods, the reaction is so severe (in that a large number of those who experience any bad reaction at all then go on to die), that I believe that there is good reason to take precautions which might well be seem to be "over the top" if the reaction was minor.

Take, for instance, the peanut allergies referred to. This allergy isn't just to do with a bit of irritation or a rash. The potential effect is death. Therefore when I was pregnant I went to great lengths to avoid ingesting peanut in any form (nuts, oil etc). I also ensured that my son avoided peanuts as much as possible for the first 5 years of his life. This is because one theory about the increasing incidence of peanut allergy is connected to the increased ingestion of peanuts through vegetable oils, peanut butter etc in our modern world.

In the same way I will be doing my best to prevent any dog eating raisins, chocolate or any of the other foodstuffs on that list. It just doesn't make sense to deliberately expose them to a risk which isn't necessary from a nutritional point of view.

Having said that, as a result of these later posts, I won't be quite so inclined to panic as I would have been before reading them. I do think we should take it very seriously though, and I would be just as worried as Penel has been. Once the reaction is apparent, I don't think you can afford to lose much time.

Wow, that's a long-winded reply. Just my opinion of course! :P

Offline Spangle

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Raisin Toxicity
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2006, 05:15:52 PM »
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All still ok this morning.......... still re-organising the kitchen.... the perils of tall dogs (or short ones that jump !).
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So glad they are all ok.  What a worry!

Some interesting reading on this page, and the story of Anya who sadly died after eating raisins;
http://agilitynet.com/health/foodproblems_contents.html
Rachel, Sophie, Billy, Ted, Bonnie & Sammy xxxx

Offline Petra

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Raisin Toxicity
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2006, 05:30:35 PM »
Quote
I, too, agree that it is good to see a healthy balance with hype and the real risks involved. (There is a difference, though, between toxicity and allergy. I would think that if a certain item is toxic to one dog, it would be toxic to all dogs??? Allergies, on the other hand are much more individualistic.)

I agree, so perhaps RAISIN TOXITICY is a misnomer, as there are dogs eating raisins (some fed and some pinched... :) ) without any ill-effects...?  Perhaps it is an allergy - an extreme one obviously... :(



Petra


Offline sarahp

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Raisin Toxicity
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2006, 06:51:03 PM »
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All still ok this morning.......... still re-organising the kitchen.... the perils of tall dogs (or short ones that jump !).
[snapback]174713[/snapback]


Sorry Penel I've only just caught up with this :blink:   What a worry :unsure:   Hope they continue to be ok - will this have any effect on Lola's allergies???
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Offline shonajoy

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Raisin Toxicity
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2006, 07:51:38 PM »

It's been reported that the effect in some dogs can be cumulative, and it's not known why. Personally, if it were a major food group and of vital nutritional substance to dogs' diets, I'd see your point. But, I don't think either are the case here.

All our vets advise against raisins, and it seems pointless to feed them to me considering they *may* cause problems down the line. Kidney failure in later years maybe?

You also say dogs are individuals and can tolerate different amounts before anything becoming lethal - very true, so surely it's even more important to ensure other dogs with less tolerance than yours are aware of the problem.
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Offline bluegirl

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Raisin Toxicity
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2006, 09:18:33 PM »
Quote
It's been reported that the effect in some dogs can be cumulative, and it's not known why. Personally, if it were a major food group and of vital nutritional substance to dogs' diets, I'd see your point. But, I don't think either are the case here.

All our vets advise against raisins, and it seems pointless to feed them to me considering they *may* cause problems down the line. Kidney failure in later years maybe?

You also say dogs are individuals and can tolerate different amounts before anything becoming lethal - very true, so surely it's even more important to ensure other dogs with less tolerance than yours are aware of the problem.
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I don't know whether deaths are caused by a chemical given off in the break down of ingested raisins which induces kidney failure or that it is an  anaphatic shock brought about by a raisin allergy or some other reason, but kidney failure in later life is much more likely to have another trigger than that of raisins.

We are all better informed having read about these things, but I still believe that these things are so rare that they pose little risk to the general  healthy dog population.
Karen, Penny, Logan, Phoebe and Bronte.


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Raisin Toxicity
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2006, 12:05:16 AM »
Hi Karen - perhaps you ought to speak to the poisons unit about it then, I believe that members of the public can phone in for info if they want to.....
...what can I say .... I would not consider feeding raisins to my dogs (and didn't in the past).......
It is not anaphylactic shock, it is kidney failure and there is no antidote to raisin toxicity.

My vets didn't realise just how serious it was until they rang the poisons unit - when they phoned me back they were completely shocked at how serious the problem really is.  Since then all the vets who work for them - they are a referral centre as well, have been informed of the danger and are spreading the word amongst their clients.  

If Lola had eaten 270g of raisins according to the poisons unit that would be fatal ie: 10g of raisins per kg bodyweight of dog.  Thankfully it would seem the raisins (and nuts and bread) were shared between the three of them.


Thanks to everyone for your good wishes, we're now over 48 hours after and they are all still ok.... I am hoping we have escaped this time... :)   Lola is itching like mad, but that's the wheat in the bread - silly girl, hopefully she will get over it in a few days time.

Offline Mich

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Raisin Toxicity
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2006, 12:10:59 AM »
Glad they are still ok!  Naughty pooches!!!! xx
  Mich, Bailey and Poppy xxxxx

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Raisin Toxicity
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2006, 12:12:47 AM »
Very interesting reading - I knew about Anya, but hadn't read this link, and now I am still very worried... I cannot understand how anyone would not take this seriously.

http://www.aspca.org/site/DocServer/grapes.pdf?docID=189

The Wrath of Grapes
by Charlotte Means, D.V.M. Magoo was a big, playful Labrador retriever who often got himself into some sticky situations. Usually, his escapades were harmless. But one day, he managed to snag a box of raisins from the pantry and ended up eating an entire pound of the sweet treats. Other than being exasperated by Magoo's behavior, his guardians didn't think much about it. They knew that lots of people shared grapes with their dogs and often used raisins as training rewards. So it hardly seemed the kind of emergency that required a call to the veterinarian. In fact, if Magoo's parents had called the ASPCA's Animal Poison Control Center (APCC) just a few years ago, they would have been told not to worry about it.
Through the GrapevineEnter the APCC AnToxTM database, a computerized system that contains nearly 500,000 animal-related medical conditions and that enables veterinarians to quickly identify toxic-substance exposures, recognize clinical signs and administer proper treatment. By tracking cases in this registry, similarities in animal medical conditions nationwide can be logged and syndromes can be identified.
Around 1989, the APCC began noticing a trend in dogs who had eaten grapes or raisins: Nearly all developed acute renal (kidney) failure. As more cases were reported, enough data was generated in the database to help veterinarians identify and treat dogs at risk. In all of the cases, the ingredients for potential acute renal failure were the same. Whether the ingested grapes were purchased fresh from grocery stores or grown in private yards didn't seem to matter, nor did the brand eaten. And the ingested amounts varied considerably, from over a pound of grapes to as little as a single serving of raisins. The cases weren't from any specific region, but instead came from across the United States.
The database showed that dogs who ate the grapes and raisins typically vomited within a few hours of ingestion. Most of the time, partially digested grapes and raisins could be seen in the vomit, fecal material, or both. At this point, some dogs would stop eating (anorexia), and develop diarrhea. The dogs often became quiet and lethargic, and showed signs of abdominal pain. These clinical signs lasted for several days -- sometimes even weeks.
When medical care was sought, blood chemistry panels showed consistent patterns. Hypercalcemia (elevated blood calcium levels) was frequently present, as well as elevated levels of blood urea nitrogen, creatinine and phosphorous (substances that reflect kidney function). These chemistries began to increase anywhere from 24 hours to several days after the dogs ate the fruit. As the kidney damage developed, the dogs would produce little urine. When they could no longer produce urine, death occurred. In some cases, dogs who received timely veterinary care still had to be euthanized.
Why did the fruit cause the dogs to become ill? No one knows. Suspect grapes and raisins have been screened for various pesticides, heavy metals (such as zinc or lead), and mycotoxins (fungal contaminants) and so far, all results have come back negative. In the cases where the grapes were grown in private yards, owners confirmed that no insecticides, fertilizers or antifungals had been used on the fruit.
"Raisin" the Success RateEven though the exact cause of the renal failure is unknown, dogs who ingest grapes and raisins can be treated successfully to prevent its development. The first line of defense is decontamination. Inducing vomiting in recent ingestions and administering activated charcoal helps prevent absorption of potential toxins. Dogs should be hospitalized and placed on intravenous fluids for a minimum of 48 hours. A veterinarian should monitor blood chemistry daily for at least three days following the ingestion. If all blood work is normal after three days, it's unlikely that kidney failure will occur. If a dog shows evidence of renal failure, fluids must be continued, and other medications should be used to stimulate urine production. Some dogs may need peritoneal dialysis, a process where the peritoneum (the membranes surrounding the abdominal organs) is used to filter waste products that are normally filtered by the kidney.
Thanks in part to the AnTox database, grape or raisin ingestion can be easily identified and treated. Today, a dog can make a complete recovery from this potentially fatal condition.
Dr. Means is a veterinary toxicologist at the ASPCA's Animal Poison Control Center in Urbana, Illinois.
Reprinted from ASPCA Animal Watch, Summer 2002, Volume 22, Number 2, with permission from The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, 424 East 92nd Street, New York, NY 10128-6804.
The ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center is the only animal poison control center in North America. Established in 1978, at the University of Illinois College of Veterinary Medicine. The Center is the only facility of its kind. Located in Urbana, Illinois, the specially trained staff provides assistance to pet owners and specific diagnostic and treatment recommendations to veterinarians. In 2001, the Center handled over 65,000 cases.

Offline silkstocking

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Raisin Toxicity
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2006, 12:13:04 AM »
That Boxer I mentioned earlier nearly died.......the raisins can shut the kidneys down amongst other things.........ok so some dogs react differently, but I don't think its worth the risk, hyped or not xxxxxxxxx

Obviously in Penels case and the Boxers case the dogs got the rasins through accident rather than being fed them :)

Can I ask though for those of you that do feed rasins what the nutritional benifit is for your dog? I'm not being funny just would be interested to know?