To boost or not to boost. Are we wasting our money?

[Cob-Web]

I will continue to be advised by my vet with regards to vaccinations. I do hope that all those people with dogs that opt not vaccinated will make it common knowledge to others that their dogs are not vaccinated 

Why should they, though? My dogs are vaccinated and so protected against anything that other dogs may carry - the only time it would be a risk is if I had an unvaccinated pup, or an immuno-compromised older dog 

No matter what I may think of the vaccination debate (and imo, the is not enough evidence to support a decision either way), I am faced with a stark choice - vaccinated dogs, or no dogs at all  If I had fail-proof emergency dog-care that was not vaccination dependant, then I could consider the alternatives - but I don't, so if I want dogs, I have to accept this as part of the package 

[Hurtwood Dogs]

I have been undecided about vaccinations for many years now, but have always decided to keep up with them. Funnily enough until we had cockers all our dogs were only ever given the first years vax and then nothing else and never came to any harm. My last dog was vaccinated yearly and developed an AI disease, which in my own mind I believe it was due to having an undetected cancer (as this can trigger AI disease) but I will never really know for sure that vaccinations hadn't caused it.

This sounds exactly like the sort of thing that happened to my last cocker - the vet was torn between AI & a very aggressive cancer.. I was too upset to have a PM done but I wonder if I should have now  He was jabbed every year and his first vaccinations were done quite early too...

Hannah x

[Cazzie]

I will continue to be advised by my vet with regards to vaccinations. I do hope that all those people with dogs that opt not vaccinated will make it common knowledge to others that their dogs are not vaccinated 

Why should they, though? My dogs are vaccinated and so protected against anything that other dogs may carry - the only time it would be a risk is if I had an unvaccinated pup, or an immuno-compromised older dog 

Well what if I decided to take Otter to a friends house, I would want them to be honest enough to admit to me that their dog was not vaccinated. Just like I found out the other day and nearly let him mix with 3 dogs that had not as I found out after I asked as they werent going to tell me and couldnt lie to my face, he remained in the car for the duration I was there. 

[Cob-Web]

I will continue to be advised by my vet with regards to vaccinations. I do hope that all those people with dogs that opt not vaccinated will make it common knowledge to others that their dogs are not vaccinated 

Why should they, though? My dogs are vaccinated and so protected against anything that other dogs may carry - the only time it would be a risk is if I had an unvaccinated pup, or an immuno-compromised older dog 

Well what if I decided to take Otter to a friends house, I would want them to be honest enough to admit to me that their dog was not vaccinated. Just like I found out the other day and nearly let him mix with 3 dogs that had not as I found out after I asked as they werent going to tell me and couldnt lie to my face, he remained in the car for the duration I was there. 

But WHY?  Why do you have your dogs vaccinated, if you consider unvaccinated dogs to be a risk? 

I don't understand - you walk your dogs every day in places where they are exposed to the viruses they are vaccinated against (carried by wild animals of varying types) - so why keep them away from healthy dogs? 

[Cazzie]

I will continue to be advised by my vet with regards to vaccinations. I do hope that all those people with dogs that opt not vaccinated will make it common knowledge to others that their dogs are not vaccinated 

Why should they, though? My dogs are vaccinated and so protected against anything that other dogs may carry - the only time it would be a risk is if I had an unvaccinated pup, or an immuno-compromised older dog 

Well what if I decided to take Otter to a friends house, I would want them to be honest enough to admit to me that their dog was not vaccinated. Just like I found out the other day and nearly let him mix with 3 dogs that had not as I found out after I asked as they werent going to tell me and couldnt lie to my face, he remained in the car for the duration I was there. 

But WHY?  Why do you have your dogs vaccinated, if you consider unvaccinated dogs to be a risk? 

I don't understand - you walk your dogs every day in places where they are exposed to the viruses they are vaccinated against (carried by wild animals of varying types) - so why keep them away from healthy dogs? 

Why does anyone keep a puppy away from un vaccinated dogs, a pretty obvious one there   . Yes I do walk my dogs in various places where wild animals live and yes they could or anyone could bring in anything off their feet just like millions of others with a new puppy, but going out of my way to expose my baby to an unvaccinated dog that could have been in contact and be carrying any disease is something I would NOT expose him to. I have been at a shoot a few years back where one beaters dog had been in kennels that had had a massive out break of parvo and by golly all the dogs that were there who were not vaccinated were soon frog marched to the vets for a booster.

Im not one of these people who think "It will never happen to my dogs" im acting as responsible as I know how and have been advised by the experts  

So are you saying Rachael that you would recommend someone to socialise their new pup with unvaccinated dogs   And are you recommending that the entire household stay indoors for the duration till their pup is safe to go outside  

[Helen]

Let me know what experts have advised you Dunbarney, and I will check them out and consider changing my view....

I would let my pup socialise with healthy unvaccinated dogs, in fact I did when Jarvis was around 10 weeks old.  Remember a lot of people who DON'T vaccinate have listened to experts too on this, and their dogs live long happy healthy lives. I wouldn't put a pup in a kennel situation or in areas with potentially unknown dogs though as I do think that IS a risk.

I'm with cob-web in that i don't understand the problem if your vaccinated dogs associate with those that are not.  Yours surely are 'protected'? 

[Cazzie]

Let me know what experts have advised you Dunbarney, and I will check them out and consider changing my view....

I would let my pup socialise with healthy unvaccinated dogs, in fact I did when Jarvis was around 10 weeks old.  Remember a lot of people who DON'T vaccinate have listened to experts too on this, and their dogs live long happy healthy lives. I wouldn't put a pup in a kennel situation or in areas with potentially unknown dogs though as I do think that IS a risk.

I'm with cob-web in that i don't understand the problem if your vaccinated dogs associate with those that are not.  Yours surely are 'protected'? 

I wasnt talking about my adult vaccinated dogs mixing, I was talking about Otter who is 10 weeks old  As far as experts advising I regard my vet as an expert and certainly know they do not advise mixing an un vaccinated puppy with un vaccinated dogs, or am I wrong  Have things changed 

Edited to add, so with your advice it will be ok to take Otter to my next shoot and socialise him with all the dogs there, because after all the owners will tell me that their dogs are extremely healthy dogs 

[LurcherGirl]

Let me know what experts have advised you Dunbarney, and I will check them out and consider changing my view....

I would let my pup socialise with healthy unvaccinated dogs, in fact I did when Jarvis was around 10 weeks old.  Remember a lot of people who DON'T vaccinate have listened to experts too on this, and their dogs live long happy healthy lives. I wouldn't put a pup in a kennel situation or in areas with potentially unknown dogs though as I do think that IS a risk.

I'm with cob-web in that i don't understand the problem if your vaccinated dogs associate with those that are not.  Yours surely are 'protected'? 

I wasnt talking about my adult vaccinated dogs mixing, I was talking about Otter who is 10 weeks old  As far as experts advising I regard my vet as an expert and certainly know they do not advise mixing an un vaccinated puppy with un vaccinated dogs, or am I wrong  Have things changed 

No, I won't let my unvaccinated dog (who is not vaccinated due to massive allergies) knowingly mix with unvaccinated young puppies, though I feel it is more the puppy owner's responsibility to ensure this than mine (for example). I did however let my young puppy mix with unvaccinated dogs before he was fully vaccinated as I was confident that they were healthy. I was prepared to take the risk in favour of socialisation. I did know the dogs and their owners well though!

Vera

[Helen]

Let me know what experts have advised you Dunbarney, and I will check them out and consider changing my view....

I would let my pup socialise with healthy unvaccinated dogs, in fact I did when Jarvis was around 10 weeks old.  Remember a lot of people who DON'T vaccinate have listened to experts too on this, and their dogs live long happy healthy lives. I wouldn't put a pup in a kennel situation or in areas with potentially unknown dogs though as I do think that IS a risk.

I'm with cob-web in that i don't understand the problem if your vaccinated dogs associate with those that are not.  Yours surely are 'protected'? 

I wasnt talking about my adult vaccinated dogs mixing, I was talking about Otter who is 10 weeks old  As far as experts advising I regard my vet as an expert and certainly know they do not advise mixing an un vaccinated puppy with un vaccinated dogs, or am I wrong  Have things changed 

well Jarv is alive to tell the tale....and I would socialise any of my future pups with this with this group of dogs.   I think that this blanket advice covers 'all bases' in case there are any problems....and the problem would generally stem from kennels/pounds/strays etc

My own opinion is that Vets are highly trained but are only human and as fallible as the rest of us.  A good vet, to me, is one that will consider other views (like Titre testing and homeopathic remedies for example) as well as 'traditional' medicines/treatments and one that has done their own research and not just accepted the marketing of the drug agencies.

[Cazzie]

Let me know what experts have advised you Dunbarney, and I will check them out and consider changing my view....

I would let my pup socialise with healthy unvaccinated dogs, in fact I did when Jarvis was around 10 weeks old.  Remember a lot of people who DON'T vaccinate have listened to experts too on this, and their dogs live long happy healthy lives. I wouldn't put a pup in a kennel situation or in areas with potentially unknown dogs though as I do think that IS a risk.

I'm with cob-web in that i don't understand the problem if your vaccinated dogs associate with those that are not.  Yours surely are 'protected'? 

I wasnt talking about my adult vaccinated dogs mixing, I was talking about Otter who is 10 weeks old  As far as experts advising I regard my vet as an expert and certainly know they do not advise mixing an un vaccinated puppy with un vaccinated dogs, or am I wrong  Have things changed 

well Jarv is alive to tell the tale....and I would socialise any of my future pups with this with this group of dogs.   I think that this blanket advice covers 'all bases' in case there are any problems....and the problem would generally stem from kennels/pounds/strays etc

My own opinion is that Vets are highly trained but are only human and as fallible as the rest of us.  A good vet, to me, is one that will consider other views (like Titre testing and homeopathic remedies for example) as well as 'traditional' medicines/treatments and one that has done their own research and not just accepted the marketing of the drug agencies.

Ive asked my vet about testing for imune levels and he said that yes of course we could do this, but your dogs immune levels may be perfect at the time of the test but drop months down the line. its something I think unless I have studied years scientifically for myself Ill stick with my vets advice on vaccinations as my dogs are too precious to knowingly put them at risk.

As I have said further back in this topic, I have a cat that cannot be vaccinated due to reactions to vaccines and I have to live with the thought that if she catches something and dies from it at least I did try to protect her, but it certainly hasnt stopped me getting the dogs done knowing how bad Sassy reacts. I have put sassy's reactions to vaccines down to her bad breeding as she came from an backyard breeder who is well known for inbreeding and the fact that she had cat flu as a kitten  

[LurcherGirl]

Ive asked my vet about testing for imune levels and he said that yes of course we could do this, but your dogs immune levels may be perfect at the time of the test but drop months down the line. its something I think unless I have studied years scientifically for myself Ill stick with my vets advice on vaccinations as my dogs are too precious to knowingly put them at risk.

And many dogs don't actually take the vaccination either and are - despite being vaccinated - not immune. You can argue it either way! All our dogs were vaccinated yearly without fail until this year, when two of them had titre tests instead (one due to allergies, one due to age). The younger one (less than 3 years old at the time) had sufficient anti-bodies, the older one (7 1/2 years old) didn't... so in fact, he wasn't protected eventhough he was fully vaccinated and had been for 7 years... ! Needless to say, he got vaccinated again and it remains to be seen whether he showns good levels of anti-bodies next year! I am fully aware that titre tests are not fool-proof, but unfortunately neither are vaccines!

Vera

[Helen]

Ive asked my vet about testing for imune levels and he said that yes of course we could do this, but your dogs immune levels may be perfect at the time of the test but drop months down the line. its something I think unless I have studied years scientifically for myself Ill stick with my vets advice on vaccinations as my dogs are too precious to knowingly put them at risk.

And many dogs don't actually take the vaccination either and are - despite being vaccinated - not immune. You can argue it either way! All our dogs were vaccinated yearly without fail until this year, when two of them had titre tests instead (one due to allergies, one due to age). The younger one (less than 3 years old at the time) had sufficient anti-bodies, the older one (7 1/2 years old) didn't... so in fact, he wasn't protected eventhough he was fully vaccinated and had been for 7 years... ! Needless to say, he got vaccinated again and it remains to be seen whether he showns good levels of anti-bodies next year! I am fully aware that titre tests are not fool-proof, but unfortunately neither are vaccines!

Vera

Dunbarney, my dog is precious too - and I don't want to expose him to any risks that I can prevent. I weigh up the chances of catching one of these diseases with the problems (that are more and more prevalent) of AI disorders which, rightly or wrongly, are often associated with Boosters. 

I suggest you check out information on AI disorders and the link to boosters and over-vaccination, and speak to owners that have tragically lost dogs in this way before implying that your dogs are more precious to you because you choose to vaccinate.  There are reasons why people are questioning over vaccination, it's not a thoughtless process.

Dr Jean Dodds is what I would call an 'expert' in this field http://www.critterchat.net/immune.htm

[Cazzie]

Ive asked my vet about testing for imune levels and he said that yes of course we could do this, but your dogs immune levels may be perfect at the time of the test but drop months down the line. its something I think unless I have studied years scientifically for myself Ill stick with my vets advice on vaccinations as my dogs are too precious to knowingly put them at risk.

And many dogs don't actually take the vaccination either and are - despite being vaccinated - not immune. You can argue it either way! All our dogs were vaccinated yearly without fail until this year, when two of them had titre tests instead (one due to allergies, one due to age). The younger one (less than 3 years old at the time) had sufficient anti-bodies, the older one (7 1/2 years old) didn't... so in fact, he wasn't protected eventhough he was fully vaccinated and had been for 7 years... ! Needless to say, he got vaccinated again and it remains to be seen whether he showns good levels of anti-bodies next year! I am fully aware that titre tests are not fool-proof, but unfortunately neither are vaccines!

Vera

Dunbarney, my dog is precious too - and I don't want to expose him to any risks that I can prevent. I weigh up the chances of catching one of these diseases with the problems (that are more and more prevalent) of AI disorders which, rightly or wrongly, are often associated with Boosters. 

I suggest you check out information on AI disorders and the link to boosters and over-vaccination, and speak to owners that have tragically lost dogs in this way before implying that your dogs are more precious to you because you choose to vaccinate.  There are reasons why people are questioning over vaccination, it's not a thoughtless process.

Dr Jean Dodds is what I would call an 'expert' in this field http://www.critterchat.net/immune.htm

Thanks for that info 

[Cazzie]

Ive asked my vet about testing for imune levels and he said that yes of course we could do this, but your dogs immune levels may be perfect at the time of the test but drop months down the line. its something I think unless I have studied years scientifically for myself Ill stick with my vets advice on vaccinations as my dogs are too precious to knowingly put them at risk.

And many dogs don't actually take the vaccination either and are - despite being vaccinated - not immune. You can argue it either way! All our dogs were vaccinated yearly without fail until this year, when two of them had titre tests instead (one due to allergies, one due to age). The younger one (less than 3 years old at the time) had sufficient anti-bodies, the older one (7 1/2 years old) didn't... so in fact, he wasn't protected eventhough he was fully vaccinated and had been for 7 years... ! Needless to say, he got vaccinated again and it remains to be seen whether he showns good levels of anti-bodies next year! I am fully aware that titre tests are not fool-proof, but unfortunately neither are vaccines!

Vera

Dunbarney, my dog is precious too - and I don't want to expose him to any risks that I can prevent. I weigh up the chances of catching one of these diseases with the problems (that are more and more prevalent) of AI disorders which, rightly or wrongly, are often associated with Boosters. 

I suggest you check out information on AI disorders and the link to boosters and over-vaccination, and speak to owners that have tragically lost dogs in this way before implying that your dogs are more precious to you because you choose to vaccinate.  There are reasons why people are questioning over vaccination, it's not a thoughtless process.

Dr Jean Dodds is what I would call an 'expert' in this field http://www.critterchat.net/immune.htm

Thanks for that info 

Edited to add, my dogs are not more precious to be because I choose to vaccinate, my statement and concerns were made regarding puppy Jags and socialising  a young pup with unvaccinated dogs and because my dogs are precious to me like all peoples dogs are I do what I think is best for them guided by a vet.  I choose to vaccinate my pup and am certainly not un aware of cases of dogs dying because of over vaccination, but it certainly would be interesting to know the percentage of dogs dying with over vaccination against how many dogs would die from disease if none were vaccinated at all  

[Cob-Web]

Dunbarney - apologies, as I think I mis-read your posts (or have they been edited?); I thought that you were referring to ALL of your dogs when you stated that you wouldn't let them mix with un-vaccinated dogs.

I agree with you - I think that if a dog is un-vaccinated, it's owner should tell the owner of a puppy that has not had a full schedule of vaccinations. It is then up to the puppy owner whether they allow the puppy to mix or not - some owners, like Helen, would let their pup socialise, and others (like yourself) wouldn't  - but it is up to the puppy owner, not the owner of the un-vaccinated dog, imo 

I am acutely aware of the risks associated with vaccines in animals and people - a close family member is chronically disabled as a result of a post-vaccination autoimmune reaction and has been for the last 16 years.  I hope that one day, people like myself who are dependant on professional dog-care will have the chance to make informed choices about the risks we expose our pets too