pepper had another "turn"...

[happydog]

Jean, you're a nurse, so taking a blood sample shouldn't be a problem for you.  Why don't you contact Dr Simpson and ask him how he wants the sample taken, packaged/how to get them to him quickly etc. Then if it happens again you are ready  .
I've just seen the video link (missed it first time round  ) and agree it is very interesting. It sounds as if Jess, who was always totally turbo charged, had a very similar problem.

[Annette]

Jean, you're a nurse, so taking a blood sample shouldn't be a problem for you.  Why don't you contact Dr Simpson and ask him how he wants the sample taken, packaged/how to get them to him quickly etc. Then if it happens again you are ready  .
I've just seen the video link (missed it first time round  ) and agree it is very interesting. It sounds as if Jess, who was always totally turbo charged, had a very similar problem.

Not sure Jean would want to take it from her dog though!

I do think it sounds just like that on the video. Agree with those who have suggested contacting him.

Hope she is ok!

[happydog]

Not sure Jean would want to take it from her dog though!

There's always a first time Annette, and if it helps Pepper I am sure she will manage 

[*jean*]

Not sure Jean would want to take it from her dog though!

There's always a first time Annette, and if it helps Pepper I am sure she will manage 

Im going to speak to my vet about it.. Taking blood at the time would be best but carting a tourniquet needles syringes and a razor about everywhere I go with pepper might be a bit impractical, However I daresay I can get bloods off her if I have a 2 hour window. I think I might get in touch with edinburgh and see what the vet Dr simpson says. I wonder how id get his email?
when i think of it the twice this has happened she has been running on an empty stomach for a fairly long time. I gave her a small feed today and yesterday prior to taking her out , I did 6 miles goodness knows how many she did ( she quarters the ground around me non stop ) and no ill effects . was out with 9 working cockers and 1 clumber. nice walk.
maybe if I give her a small feed in the mornings it will stop this happening. A freind told me today that a keeper she knows carries a mars bar for his dog.. it must have a similar problem. I dont know if mars bars are the best thing considering dogs are allergic to chocolate.
 I could buy some hypostop wich is just glucose you squirt in the mouth. works on humans.  The vet I want to talk it over with is off right now but Im going to have a chat when she gets back.

[Nicola]

I think I might get in touch with edinburgh and see what the vet Dr simpson says. I wonder how id get his email?

Give them a ring here, this is Dr Simpson's department, his name's on the top of the Clinicians list and the phone number's above it. I've had quite a bit of contact with the vet school about the course and they're very helpful...

http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/services/internal_medicine.htm

[*jean*]

I think I might get in touch with edinburgh and see what the vet Dr simpson says. I wonder how id get his email?

Give them a ring here, this is Dr Simpson's department, his name's on the top of the Clinicians list and the phone number's above it. I've had quite a bit of contact with the vet school about the course and they're very helpful...

http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/services/internal_medicine.htm

thanks nic. Im such a jessie Id probably not go looking for it myself as Im a wimp. But I will phone and see what he says. eek! I hate phones! hasnt he got an email?? I will psyche myself up to it tommorrow. promise. ok am off to bed... the dogs are all in the land of nod..why am I such an imsomniac? oh yes ...blinking hight duty ruins my sleep pattern!

[Helen]

the inside of a Mars bar is what they used on the Springer I was speaking about 

You could always just carry one pre-prepared (i.e you've nibbled off the chocolate outside) in cling film but the Hypostop sounds better 

[Wendy G]

I have seen this happen on a shoot and again a Mars bar was used, but the Hypostop sounds a better idea if you can squirt it into her mouth as sometimes it is difficult getting them to eat in this situation. We always gave our dogs a small breakfast before going beating (although they were usually too excited to eat it)

Hope Pepper is O.K

[*jean*]

the inside of a Mars bar is what they used on the Springer I was speaking about 

You could always just carry one pre-prepared (i.e you've nibbled off the chocolate outside) in cling film but the Hypostop sounds better 

you know me too well! !! Im going to email the vet at edinburgh see what he says.

 I always worry about running dogs on full stomachs. gastic torsions come to mind. especially the way my lot leap and twist.
 when Im out with my sisters lurchers and deerhounds they have short bursts of speed and then jog jog jog.heads up eyes fixed ahead..
 my lot belt around  heads down tails up zig zagging and twisting leaping , stopping dead and backtracking. theres no comparison in the way they move. they use far more energy than the bigger dogs and have way more stamina. the bigger dogs just end up walking beside us after an hour or so with the odd jog if they spot something.
 so my theory was if they had food slooshing round in their stomachs it was a risk. maybe theres a way round it..??
 i do feed them a lot of raw and  also some high maintainace complete dog food for working dogs as they burn off food very quickly..( not at the same time tho!)

[cazza]

Jean have PM'd you with info 

[Helen]

the inside of a Mars bar is what they used on the Springer I was speaking about 

You could always just carry one pre-prepared (i.e you've nibbled off the chocolate outside) in cling film but the Hypostop sounds better 

you know me too well! !! Im going to email the vet at edinburgh see what he says.

 I always worry about running dogs on full stomachs. gastic torsions come to mind. especially the way my lot leap and twist.
 when Im out with my sisters lurchers and deerhounds they have short bursts of speed and then jog jog jog.heads up eyes fixed ahead..
 my lot belt around  heads down tails up zig zagging and twisting leaping , stopping dead and backtracking. theres no comparison in the way they move. they use far more energy than the bigger dogs and have way more stamina. the bigger dogs just end up walking beside us after an hour or so with the odd jog if they spot something.
 so my theory was if they had food slooshing round in their stomachs it was a risk. maybe theres a way round it..??
 i do feed them a lot of raw and  also some high maintainace complete dog food for working dogs as they burn off food very quickly..( not at the same time tho!)

I know what it's like - Jarv has collapsed a couple of times in the summer.  We always make a point of taking him out early/late when it's cooler but he used to really overdo it and it is very scary.  Not what Pepper does - in this case it's heat exhaustion.

I feed Jarv a small meal an hour (at least) before we go out - he covers so much ground he must be burning off a helluva lot of energy so I try and make sure he has a small reserve.

the other thing I was thinking - I know it's a hassle but could you resort to 'treats' on your walks?  (i know your dogs are way past needing treat incentives).  If you could get something small occasionally down their necks it may help any blood sugar drops (although if Jarv is in full on working mode nothing will tear him away  )

[*jean*]

the inside of a Mars bar is what they used on the Springer I was speaking about 

You could always just carry one pre-prepared (i.e you've nibbled off the chocolate outside) in cling film but the Hypostop sounds better 

you know me too well! !! Im going to email the vet at edinburgh see what he says.

 I always worry about running dogs on full stomachs. gastic torsions come to mind. especially the way my lot leap and twist.
 when Im out with my sisters lurchers and deerhounds they have short bursts of speed and then jog jog jog.heads up eyes fixed ahead..
 my lot belt around  heads down tails up zig zagging and twisting leaping , stopping dead and backtracking. theres no comparison in the way they move. they use far more energy than the bigger dogs and have way more stamina. the bigger dogs just end up walking beside us after an hour or so with the odd jog if they spot something.
 so my theory was if they had food slooshing round in their stomachs it was a risk. maybe theres a way round it..??
 i do feed them a lot of raw and  also some high maintainace complete dog food for working dogs as they burn off food very quickly..( not at the same time tho!)

I know what it's like - Jarv has collapsed a couple of times in the summer.  We always make a point of taking him out early/late when it's cooler but he used to really overdo it and it is very scary.  Not what Pepper does - in this case it's heat exhaustion.

I feed Jarv a small meal an hour (at least) before we go out - he covers so much ground he must be burning off a helluva lot of energy so I try and make sure he has a small reserve.

the other thing I was thinking - I know it's a hassle but could you resort to 'treats' on your walks?  (i know your dogs are way past needing treat incentives).  If you could get something small occasionally down their necks it may help any blood sugar drops (although if Jarv is in full on working mode nothing will tear him away  )

pepper spits treats out on walks.. its as if she hasnt time to eat there is too much else far more interesting around.. liath will gobble them up. I think thats why pepper was harder to train as she is not food motivated outside.
 Ive emailed james simpson to see what he says...
thanks everybody for your concern.

[spanielcrazy]

Ive emailed james simpson to see what he says...

Let us know what he says 


If you are concerned about bloat, you could make the pre-run meal a light one, more to the liquid side like a soup or porridge. The problem comes when dry food swells in the stomach and produces gas

[*jean*]

Ive emailed james simpson to see what he says...

Let us know what he says 


If you are concerned about bloat, you could make the pre-run meal a light one, more to the liquid side like a soup or porridge. The problem comes when dry food swells in the stomach and produces gas

]

its not bloat Im worried about so much as a gastric torsion. A friend lost her dog from that. he had the surgery but arrested and died the next day. It was incredibly painful as well. poor dog.
 jimmy simpson has emailed me back and wants her bloods next time. she fits his criteria for research.
 I was out walking the dogs yeterday with my friend the vet so Ive prewarned her.
Ive kept a cpoy of the email to take in as well as Ill never remember what bloods, and in which tubes they go, and if they need spun or not so its easier if I just take the letter.  ( cop out!)

[spanielcrazy]

its not bloat Im worried about so much as a gastric torsion. A friend lost her dog from that. he had the surgery but arrested and died the next day. It was incredibly painful as well. poor dog.
 

They go hand in hand. It starts as bloat, the gas can't pass, then the stomach twists (torsion)


Glad you got in touch with Dr. Simpson. Hopefully the occasion to need him will never arise again