One dog or two?

[SimonKirk]

Hi,

We are planning on getting a cocker pup, and have one earmarked from a reputable source. We have three young children and are lucky enough to have a large garden. However our concern is the amount of time the dog might be on its own. This is likely to be from about 9AM until at least 2PM most days.

Do you think this in itself would be detrimental to the dog (especially in its early months). Is there a consensus that a second dog in these circumstances is beneficial to their general well being, or does it not matter?

Many Thanks
Simon

[Mittens]

I'm no professional, but from my own experience I would have found two puppies really really hard work (we did consider this too). Eddie is six months nearly now (23 weeks) and has good training/behaviour/toilet habits etc, but it was hard work and weekly classes, and a lot of input at home. We have now adopted an older cocker (18 months) and it is really lovely to see them together, but she is already house trained and has the basic commands under her belt, so I feel we can now cope with two. I don't think Eddie was harmed in any way being an only pup - he slept a lot when we did leave him. Five hours is a long time for a puppy not to be able to go out to toilet etc though - can someone come round and let him out? Others will have lots of better advice I'm sure, but I think that unless you are really dog experienced, you might run the risk of getting two 'little hooligans' - an age gap where the first gets wel trained before the second comes along seems sensible to me. Good luck! 

[Nicola]

Two puppies at the same time is generally not recommended and most reputable breeders will not let two puppies go to the same home. Getting two puppies because they're going to be left alone is definitely not a good idea, pups need human company and guidance and you risk a lot of issues developing by getting two pups and then leaving them alone for long periods. Even if they're not left alone there can be other issues with two dogs of a very similar age such as if they overbond with each other or conversely you can have issues with fighting once they leave the small puppy stage and start to mature. This thread explains it very well... http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=2017.0

Five hours is way too long for a small puppy to be left on its own every day in any case. At 8 weeks old puppies need to pee every 20 minutes or so and they need lots of human company. It is possible to have a puppy and work but it takes a lot of juggling and organisation - people usually get around it by taking a few weeks off to begin with and then by juggling shifts and/or getting family, neighbours or a dog walker/sitter in to play with the pup and let it out regularly. Have you thought about perhaps looking at rehoming an older dog or even a pair of rescues rather than a small puppy? This could be a better fit for your circumstances. With 3 young children I would imagine you have your hands full as it is! Puppies are very time consuming and hard work and pups and small kids are not generally a match made in heaven, they can be difficult to manage.

[chrisj1957]

You will get all kinds of advice on this like we did.In April this year we got 2 pups (brothers).We previously had only one dog I wish now that we had got 2 15 years ago as he was left for about the same time as you plan to leave yours.Our 2 were houstrained at 10 weeks and have been dry all night since 3 months old they do play fight a lot but they are inseperable.I have crate trained them and I lleave them for about 4-5 hours a day while at work.Instead of locking them in a crate we leave the door open and have a hexagon dog playpen from Pets at Home 19.99 we put around the cage they have plenty space to play with toys and we leave water out.My neighbour has yet to hear them through the day.They are now nearly 6 months old I are little treasures.Everyone said they would be a nightmare but each to their own I cannot make your mind up just way up the pros and cons for your lifestyle.

Good Luck

[mcphee]

You will get very sound advice from experienced owners on this site. Sometimes what we read here is unpalatable at first sight. I am a first time owner with a three quarters worker dog. I am not experienced as this is my first dog. Rufus was not left at all for the first 3 weeks he was with us, and then we built up to never more than 3 hours. I would not know what having two pups would be like, but believe me if they were as manic as Rufus you would not cope with 2 and small children. My garden is not massive, but is bigger than most modern houses and I have a dog flap which has helped in some ways. However, my main point is my last 2 obedience trainers would not accept 2 litter siblings in the same class, so they have to go every other week or to different trainers, and this will add pressure on you. Over to you!

[Cayley]

There isn't many reputable breeders who would let you have a pup if it is going to left for more than 2 hours during the day without a break, it's not fair on the pup  .

[joanne_v]

Getting two at the same time is asking for trouble so I'd say a big no to that. Apart from the fact its double the costs for everything its also double the training and littermates tend to respond better to each other than they ever will to their owners and they also tend to not get along as well with other dogs. Of course there are exceptions to every rule but in general having two is not for the faint hearted or inexperienced. Already this year we've had 3 pairs of littermates be handed into springer rescue due to issues arising from having 2 dogs at the same time.

As for leaving a pup for 5 hours a day that is also not easily managed and in my opinion unfair to a pup as well. Lots of people do manage fine by leaving dogs home alone for long periods but its really not the ideal start to a dogs life. They need company, training, loo breaks, feeding and not to mention playtime! Again from a rescue perspective we get so many young dogs handed in as owners cant cope with them being hyper/destructive due to boredom/stress when left and just this week we've had a 7 month old pup handed in as the owners claim she cant be housetrained. Thats because they have left her at home for 7 hours a day so she's learnt she has no option but to go inside.....

[sassy-susie]

When we got Alfie (a terrier cross) we also got Leo his brother, the breeder told us this would be a good idea  .................

 It was awful, I think someone with alot of doggie experience and also knowledge on dog behavior would of prob been able to control the situation better, but it was really quite bad   Leo became dominant over Alfie, this made Alfie depressed and really with drawn and anxious. We had to have a dog behaviorist out on several occasions, but in the end there was nothing that could be done so Leo had to find a new home.  After Leo went within days Alfie changed, he became alot brighter, happier and his confidence grew every day.

I'm not saying that if you get two dogs this will happen to you, they may get on great, its just a warning of what could possibly happen.

If you are going to consider getting a pair, all I would say is to get a boy and girl.

Hope this has been of some help  

[DTrubs]

I have two 4 month old puppies who are brothers. Since day one, we have left them on their own for periods of time and have built this up to 5 hours (as on 3 days a week it just isn't possible to get home for them.) We have never had any problems with leaving them. They sleep and play together and are happy well-adjusted dogs. One puppy is hard work, but two aren't twice as hard. We've had no crying at night or separation anxieties. They have woken us up in the past but this was with noisy play! We also take them to puppy training classes and no-one has told us that they can't be in the same class (although sometimes they aren't.)

Before we bought two puppies, we came across loads of comments saying how awful it is, especially two brothers. The most annoying part being that a lot of comments came from people who had never had two puppies at the same time. I really don't regret our decision. If you want two, i'd say go for it. I'm glad that we're getting all the house training and chewing issues out of the way in one go!

[chrisj1957]

I am so glad someone (Dtrubs)has the same opinion as me .Our 2  ( boys)are nearly 6 months old and every comment you made fits our 2 exactly.They are so different in personality I think thats why they get along so well.I received all the negative comments for months before we got them.Its early days but so far so good.

[Helen]

Its early days but so far so good.

I hope it stays that way for you - it's usually when dogs reach adolescence and their hormones are up that they may fight and cause injury, not when they are young pups as yours are.

I hope in a years time you will still be trouble free 

I still don't know how people with 2 pups manage to train and walk them separately 

[Karma]

I really wouldn't suggest getting a 2nd dog to make up for your pup being left... the real danger is that they will team up too much with each other making your training ten times more difficult.  

DTrubs and chris - I truly hope your pairs continue to cause you no difficulty, but it is often the case that the problems arise as the dogs reach adolescence...    Or when they need to be seperated for some reason (health issues). I'm not saying it can never work, but there are serious potential pit-falls.  I am saying this as someone who initially seriously considered getting two puppies for the very reason we are discussing it here... and I can honestly say I am so glad I didn't!

It is possible to manage working with puppy ownership, but 5 hours every day with no break is not a workable arrangement.  We were very limited as to the time we could take off when we got Honey - OH had the week off then we were both at work... we worked very hard during the week to build her up to spending time alone, and I juggled my shifts to make life as easy as possible for her.  We also had the help of a friend who would visit at lunchtimes if needed.  From a fairly early age she was able to be left up to 4 hours at a time (but this wasn't every day) and, to ensure we still built a good relationship with her, we had to make sure every other minute of our life was focussed on her for many, many weeks.  

Even now, I would be reluctant to leave her for 5 hour stretches every day... though she does cope with an occasional long day if our arrangements have fallen through for any reason (this has happened twice in the 18 months we've had her).

Is there any way you could get someone to visit part way through the day (about 11am?) just to break up the day for her - a dog walker or reliable neighbour?  

[JennyBee]

My circumstances are different as I don't own the two siblings, but my aunt has Brodie's litter sister. The two of them get on well - too well. They are obsessed with each other and everything else gets pushed aside when they are together, training is impossible. We used to take them to the same training class which was a complete nightmare as all they were interested in was getting to each other. When they were younger they used to get so upset whenever they were separated but as they don't see each other so often now they've gotten used to being apart. They've had a couple of fights since hitting the teenage stage, I don't know how that would work out if they actually lived together. And finally, I can honestly say I do not know how I could have coped with a second puppy as well as Brodie - she was such hard work, especially with teething, and I don't know how I would have managed training two young pups . I hope this helps you with your decision.......

[Nicola]

DTrubs and chris - I truly hope your pairs continue to cause you no difficulty, but it is often the case that the problems arise as the dogs reach adolescence...  

I agree with this, at 4-6 months I wouldn't expect two pups to be causing any problems beyond needing an awful lot of time spent on training and walking them individually, it's as they get older that issues can become apparent. Obviously getting two dogs can sometimes work but in an awful lot of cases it doesn't.

I have two 4 month old puppies who are brothers. Since day one, we have left them on their own for periods of time and have built this up to 5 hours (as on 3 days a week it just isn't possible to get home for them.)

What do they do for the toilet when they're left this long? I can't imagine that a 4 month old puppy can hold its toilet for 5 hours at a stretch during the day. Caoimhe is 6 months old and although she is dry overnight there is still no way she could go for 5 hours during the day without needing to pee, the most she can hold it now is about 2.5-3 hours when she's up and active. Five hours is a long time for any dog to be left, I wouldn't leave my two adult dogs that long every day without having it broken up for them.

[Rhona W]

I still don't know how people with 2 pups manage to train and walk them separately 

I do! By spending 5 hours a day doing only that. 

I have litter mates and it was very time consuming. They are more bonded with us than with each other, as we made sure we spent lots of time with them seperately when they were young. In fact, we may have over done it as I don't think they really give a stuff about each other. 

I certainly wouldn't recommend getting two puppies if you are not going to be able to spend lots, and I mean lots  , of time with them. Cockers crave human company. You should really be trying to find ways of not leaving one puppy alone for such a long time, rather than thinking of leaving two.